DS ACW (US civil war) soldiers worldwide removed from Online Shops & Funstores

[Junker Jörg]

I feel like the only reason the Western theme and the Civil War sets have stuck around this long is because PM is German. The whole Wild West thing seems very old timey to me; not in a historical sense, but in a popularity sense. ...

Sehen wir den Tatsachen ins Auge: Das ist in Deutschland heute nicht anders. Wie StJohn oben schrieb: Früher, als Karl May noch in aller Munde und Bücherregal war, als Western von Gestern lief und jeder Pierre Brice kannte, war das anders. Aber heute...

Let's face facts: it's quite the same in 2017's Germany. Times when - als stated by StJohn above - Karl May was well known and Pierre Brice everybody's favourite are long since gone here too.

jj:

[tahra]

Also, to my knowledge, most Confederate soldiers did not own slaves. The lower ranks in any army are typically the not-so-wealthy folks.

Of course. They defended their home.. or looked for a living.

There were black soldiers on both sides (it might be a bit controversial to add one to the Confederate trio, but PM might consider adding one to the Union trio). The Civil War is a touchy subject, especially at the moment.

I don't think the confederates had black soldiers on the beginning... 

There was a black soldier (or 2?) in the cavalry sets.. and on a surprise egg as well.

The whole Wild West thing seems very old timey to me; not in a historical sense, but in a popularity sense. It belongs to the era of John Wayne movies. It's not the sort of theme American children are into these days.

Yes. When I was a kid westerns were VERY popular. Cowboys and indians and cavalry and all that... now.. not so much.

That and pirate movies (proper pirates, not that supernatural junk that passes for those today!) - with Errol Flynn and such. Again, these days.. movies, nothing since Cutthroat Island (we rewatched the dvd last weekend).. though we had Black Sails recently.

[Ismene]

Sehen wir den Tatsachen ins Auge: Das ist in Deutschland heute nicht anders. Wie StJohn oben schrieb: Früher, als Karl May noch in aller Munde und Bücherregal war, als Western von Gestern lief und jeder Pierre Brice kannte, war das anders. Aber heute...

Let's face facts: it's quite the same in 2017's Germany. Times when - als stated by StJohn above - Karl May was well known and Pierre Brice everybody's favourite are long since gone here too.

jj:

Thanks for the insight. I was wondering what kids in Germany thought about the western theme. In the area where I live, if you see someone in a cowboy hat, they are either from Santa Fe or they're German.  These are adults though (40 yrs and up). If PM wants to keep the Western theme, maybe they should try marketing towards adults more. 

I don't think the confederates had black soldiers on the beginning... 

There was a black soldier (or 2?) in the cavalry sets.. and on a surprise egg as well.

I meant historically, in real life. Of course, some of the Confederate ones were bribed with promises of freedom if they fought.
I didn't realize there were black klickies in the CW sets.


I watched some western shows when I was a kid, but they were already really old by that point.

[leefert]

Also, to my knowledge, most Confederate soldiers did not own slaves. The lower ranks in any army are typically the not-so-wealthy folks. There were black soldiers on both sides (it might be a bit controversial to add one to the Confederate trio, but PM might consider adding one to the Union trio). The Civil War is a touchy subject, especially at the moment.

Correct. Most Southerners did not own slaves. Aside from Plantation Owners, much of the South was very poor, but they were fighting for their homes.

The Civil War was not totally about slavery, but rather it was about economics. The rich north was using the poor south to get richer (price of cotton for export etc.).

There were actually more slaves in New York and Boston than in the entire South. And slavery existed in the Northern States into the 1880s.

[tahra]

I meant historically, in real life.

I meant in real life too.

Nobody expected the war to last. I believe the black soldiers on the Confederacy side must have been later, when cannon fodder was harder to find...

Actually, probably the same was true in the north - "they put me in a uniform, call me soldier, but still put a shovel in my hand" - or something like that...

playmowise, there is at least one cavalry set with a black soldier.. an update of 3485... So one that could go as non-war related (but as someone pointed out, all the "north" ones can).

Looked: 3811. This one even has an indian scout, so definetily farther from the civil war, with a "buffalo soldier"...
(and I think it is only one set)

Correct. Most Southerners did not own slaves. Aside from Plantation Owners, much of the South was very poor, but they were fighting for their homes.

The Civil War was not totally about slavery, but rather it was about economics. The rich north was using the poor south to get richer (price of cotton for export etc.).

Exactly. Except for a few idealists, slavery was not THE issue, I think.

[Ismene]

I meant in real life too.

Nobody expected the war to last. I believe the black soldiers on the Confederacy side must have been later, when cannon fodder was harder to find...

Actually, probably the same was true in the north - "they put me in a uniform, call me soldier, but still put a shovel in my hand" - or something like that...

Ah, yes. Supportive roles pay less than combat roles, and I expect there was a certain amount of fear about giving black soldiers firearms.

[Indianna]

There were actually more slaves in New York and Boston than in the entire South. And slavery existed in the Northern States into the 1880s.

I have avoided entering the fray on this discussion so far, but I have to respond to this comment, which seems incorrect to me.  May I ask what is the source of data for this idea?  Boston was actually one of the hot-beds of Abolitionists long before the Civil War began.  The history of slavery in the United States is long, complicated, and tragic, and all of us discussing that history should be very careful to make sure the facts we state are correct.

[playmofire]

[color=blue
I'm not sure if I'd like to support a toy company known to spread Nazi-Soldiers - even if they wouldn't issue them here  in Germany but in other countries only.[/color]

jj:

In the UK, even in the years soon after the war, WW2 combatants were always known by their nationality.  Thus, sets of WW2 German soldiers were described as Second World War German Infantry or World War 2 German Africa Korps.  Indeed, many British troops (and members of other branches of the British armed forces) held their German opponents in high esteem, notably Rommel and the Afrika Korps, although this was not extended to the "political" troops, e.g. the Waffen SS.

[Junker Jörg]

Ja, kann man so sehen. Ich selber schaffe das nicht, weil unsere Wehrmacht einen Angriffskrieg geführt hat und dabei auch an vielen zivilen Massakern beteiigt war, die häuft auch politisch bedingt waren. Ich denke, wir Deutschen sind da sehr empfindlich. Von daher kann ich nachvollziehen, wenn andere Länder auch ihre Wundpunkte haben, selbst wenn ich das Thema jetzt nicht so dramatisch finde (weil's eben nicht "meine" Geschichte ist).

Well, yes, one can say so. But I can't as our Wehrmacht has been waging an offenisive war and was killing civilians on policital interests. I daresy most Germans are a trifle overtouchy if it's about antything connected to our Nazi-History. Therefore I can understand others beeing over sensitive - even if their delicate topics aren't mine.

jj:

[Klickteryx]

Ah, yes. Supportive roles pay less than combat roles, and I expect there was a certain amount of fear about giving black soldiers firearms.

Quite possibly, but black slaves were armed during the revolution too. Slavery is a complicated issue. One anecdote I recall is a slave owner putting out an alert that some of his slaves had escaped. He said they would be easy to identify as they only spoke Gaelic - the language of the Scottish Highlanders.

I'll add that the continued existence of the Western theme is surprising given the lack of "cowboy" programmes these days. The same is true of the knights theme unfortunately.