SYSTEM-X DESIGNER WANTED

[Sir Pleamo]

GREAT! The ice is broken!

Yes, make yourselfs familiar with SketchUp. (There are also some good books if you are really interested in SketchUp)

AND,as I promised I am working out an (additional) manual just concerning the stuff how to use the part files and how to build up huge SysX buildings! But this will take a little time!

(...again when anyone wants to have the finished parts, just send me a PM.)

[Tiermann]

As it happens I found that my preferred modeling program MoI is able to export to Sketchup format just fine. I tried a quick project doing one of the more difficult shaped shields as a test. Here is what it ended up looking like in Sketchup.


So I think it will be no problem making things for me. We just need to get coordinated on what needs doing.

[tonguello]

I have a question....I use PC, not mac....will it work for you guys what I draw, and will I be able to use your libraries? Are they compatible in this case?

[Sir Pleamo]

I have a question....I use PC, not mac....will it work for you guys what I draw, and will I be able to use your libraries? Are they compatible in this case?

I guess most of us use PC not Mac, but anyway it depends on the programs running. So yes, one of the goals at least I like to follow is that all peolple could use these libraries.


I don't really get the point what you mean with "what I draw" but yes it only depens on the the file-formate. BUT and that's a real big but, first we should discuss the standards so that all parts from different sources would match with each other. For that I hope we could work something out and since Tiermann and maybe Emma has reinforced me in designing parts, I'm looking forward that we could establish a (firstly small) group of developers. As I has allready discussed with Emma, my position is that too many cookers will spoil the soup. Don't get me wrong, all should do what ever they want to do, but putting the parts together in a "nearly" official library (that's really my hope) will require same standard criteria. So if anyone likes to join let it me know. If that it was what you ment by "what I draw", great and a warm welcome!

In this sense I guess it would be the best to open a new thread for such a developer group to discuss tecnical stuff and what Tiermann mentioned a coordination of which parts are designed by whom, etc.

So I think it will be no problem making things for me. We just need to get coordinated on what needs doing.

GREAT! Now I guess this really get started. So Tiermann, what would you say about open up a new "designer"-group thread? When I get you right, you are with me, aren't you?

[tonguello]

Hi Sir Pleamo.
Well yes by "what I draw" I meant if I joined this group of developers. I had been wondering if PC and Mac were compatible as Im using a PC and assumed  most of you were using Mac, but I guess it is no problem here.

I will let you know for sure if I join in. I first want to try the program. Im used to Autocad which is a lot different but not so much.
My only problem is that I don't have many steck or system x parts. Just a 5301, a couple of western houses and a system x police station. So, we'll se how that works.
I also think it is importan coordination for how the group will do the parts and who makes what.
I think I can try something out this weekend and then let you know for sure. I hope I can help-
Best regards.
Gaston

[Tiermann]

I am on PC. The operating system isn't as important as the file formats used. There are 2 types of 3D construction. NURBS and Polygrams, the difference in the mathematics used to calculate. Sketchup uses Polys - each image is made of lots of small angled pieces. This is great for rectangular shapes, but if you look close enough at a circle you find it is made up of lots of small flat sides instead of an actual circle. NURBS is great for shapes like circles because it isn't made of the flat sides. You can easily save a NURBS model into polys, but it is difficult to convert back the other way. Since Sir Pleamo has been using Poly modeling I wont be able to take advantage of existing pieces he created to base new ones on. I will have to come up with a NURBS version of a model first and then save it to the Poly version in a Sketchup format. This is easier than it sounds perhaps, but it means I will need to duplicate at least one part to be sure they are the same scale when compared. Sketchup is to scale and if you load the parts they are small - actual Playmobil sized in measurement. I can do this with my program so as long as the conversion keeps the size the same we are fine.

I think a designer group thread would be a good idea, so we don't have to bore people with technical talk like this post 

[cachalote]

hello all,

  i kind of disagree with you on the need for a new thread.
no matter how thecnical the discussion will be i think it should be hosted here.
  of course, being this thread "father" my oppinion will never be totally independent.
the way i see it personal messages can enormously help all the "little" things.
... and i believe you all want to design with system-x and this thread is called "system-x designer wanted".

if you all think differently go ahead - and i am not reaaly giving my permission because that would be absurd in a "free" place like this forum.

  meanwhile, i can see what the problem is between nurbs and polys.
  but maybe polys are not that bad if you consider that sooner or later the need for a 3-d model of some "topographic" objects will be needed (i hope that sooner rather than later and i hope you can start with sandy beaches holding pirates fortresses).
with polys you can develop a grid of x and y fixed dimension and then, at each intersection, measure z.
a little bit like archaelogists do in their surveys.
one of the things that should be "decided" among all would have to be the "narrownes" of the grid.
... and also if the orientation(s) of the grid - instead of a perpendicular x and y (as i suggested above) maybe the ideal horizontal grid (where heights would be inserted) would be a triangular (and thus also hexagonal) one.
this would allow to transform curved sufaces in several triangular flat planes - as you know a plane can be obtained just with 3 points and a 4th one would only get in the way tending to turn everything into helixes (something quite imcompatible with polys).

  but maybe this needs yet a lot of work to be prepared.

  as sir pleamo and tiermann say the start up point would be to have a similar criteria for the "building" of all existing parts.
i have a suggestion - as sir pleamo looks to be the first one in this "race" and he is the one that created a library of all the parts he has done he should be the one to first suggest a method.
this would include all the properties (scale included) that he is inserting on each 3-d model.
i think that sketchup (an open program) should be the bassis for this models.

at the same time everyone that knows something about this subject should find a site that could host all the library files that could be accessed by all of "us".

then, a lot of problems still persist (none of them unsolvable).
one of them (as an example) is the naming and organization of parts.
playmodb.org is no doubt a good way to give numbers to existing parts and maybe "joining" them in folders named after the playmobil families (castles, pirates, modern buidings, etc.) could be simple - again also using playmodb and (of course) with the need to duplicate files (the same pieces appear in several sets).

  as one of my teachers said "if men were able to get to the moon there is a solution for everything - the only problem can be its price".
i am sure that, in this case, there is a possibility to achive something priceless - the same knowledge playmobil offical designers have on what are the parts that exist (and i am assuming they know it although with the recent pre-fab-finished-can't-be-attached-to-anything sets i sometimes have doubts).
... and with this knowledge new parts and new sets can be presented and thy will be so beautiful that geobra will have no other option than to build them.

[Sir Pleamo]

hello all,
  meanwhile, i can see what the problem is between nurbs and polys.
  but maybe polys are not that bad if you consider that sooner or later the need for a 3-d model of some "topographic" objects will be needed (i hope that sooner rather than later and i hope you can start with sandy beaches holding pirates fortresses).

Cachalote, is it possible, that you can read minds? That is exactly what I was going to do next... the sandy beaches... and right I guess TIN-based (Polygon) programs have their limits but for our use it will be okay. Also Tiermann has shown us, that NURBS-programs are able to save skp-files (although a proof of matching is left open at the moment). I have just attached a pic of a curvy surface made in SketchUp, and I think it's okay.

to the topic if a new thread is needed I didn't had in mind to kill this thread or to bore others but that we can focus ONLY on technical stuff, the results etc. would be published here, of course. I guess it will be much easier to make such standard separately because they are so important that it would be a pity if they get lost in the "public discussion". Again, please get me right, I LOVE this thread and that kind of involving as many as possible, but... 

Maybe you are right, PM or mails are very important in this context anyway...
By the way, I guess I will not have the time to post or work on this project until weekend, sorry about that.

[Indianna]

. . . I have just attached a pic of a curvy surface made in SketchUp, and I think it's okay. . .

There's your sandy beach, cachalote!     Or a great start, anyway. 

Sir Pleamo, I think you are correct that it would be a good idea to separate the technical stuff, such as parts libraries and Playmo-specific instructions, from this on-going (and excellent!) discussion.  Perhaps you and cachalote could ask Sylvia to create a "sticky" thread for this purpose.  (My personal favorite "sticky" thread appears right here in the How-To forum: "Beheading Children!!!"    )

[Tiermann]

It looks like my program saves to correct sizes and imports correctly. This is a part comparison done in Sketchup. Mine is the one on the right, Sir Pleamo's is on the left. It's in perspective but actual height is the same. I've sent a copy of mine to Sir Pleamo - please check your rot email, I've sent 2 mails recently.