Author Topic: Help! mysterious knight saddle - unidentified in PlaymoDB  (Read 1883 times)

Offline zezemanolo

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Hey guys! Could you help me identify the saddle on the left below (code or other sets that has it)?

It came for me in set 5731 (confirmed, opened 2 brand new boxes).

In PlaymoDB it is pointed out that it would be the saddle code 30092840 (which is the most common red saddle for knights), but actually this code is from the saddle on the right - definitely a different (maybe lighter) shade of red.

I tried looking for other sets with this mysterious saddle and also looked for other codes in PlaymoDB, but I didn't find anything that could match this specific colour. Please consider that it is not the brown saddle of knight christopher 3699 either (30077360). Any tips or hints are welcome (or at least if you guys can find any of this saddle in your knights!).

Thank you!

Rafael

Offline playmofire

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Re: Help! mysterious knight saddle - unidentified in PlaymoDB
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2022, 21:16:55 »
Maybe they are from two different batches and so slightly different shade.
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Offline Pynedor

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Re: Help! mysterious knight saddle - unidentified in PlaymoDB
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2022, 21:19:01 »
I don't have any definitive set or part number information, but I will say that I've noticed slight differences in colour or plastic material for parts with the same part number depending on when the set was released. So, like playmofire said, older batches may just have been darker. Do you have red saddles from any of the other Dragon Knight (or Magic theme) sets released around the same time (like Set 3274, Set 3345, or Set 3840)? I would expect those sets to have the highest chance of having the same, darker red saddles. Then again, those seem to be quite difficult to find now!
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Offline zezemanolo

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Re: Help! mysterious knight saddle - unidentified in PlaymoDB
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2022, 21:33:56 »
Hi, guys, thanks for the reply!

In fact this is a good starting point. I have a few sets from that era like the 3274, but unfortunately I didn't buy them MISB, so I can't be 100% sure if the saddle that I have in them is the original one. If anyone has any of these sets and is sure that its pieces are original, please share the information about the shade.

On the other hand, another interesting point I noticed was the fact that the saddles seem to follow the color pattern of the loop sword 30245160 (left) and 30201940 (right).

In other words, this leads me to believe that we are not talking about small differences in color between pieces of the same code, but truly that they are in fact two different colors produced by Playmobil.

Offline StJohn

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Re: Help! mysterious knight saddle - unidentified in PlaymoDB
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2022, 23:12:26 »
It came for me in set 5731 (confirmed, opened 2 brand new boxes).

 :o You've opened them?? Good for you, I'm not that brave – 5731 is very rare this [European] side of the pond. I'm cursed with a MISB one, which I got in order to complete my Caparison Chart, but won't play this knight until I get a used one from somewhere.

Tell me: is there a parts sheet in 5731? If not, then the identification of the left saddle as ETN 30092840 in playmodb might be wrong. The two colours shown are standard shades in the playmoverse: I have many "minimal pairs" of items in the two colours around, so think we can exclude batch variation of a single variant. The ETN of the saddle in 5731 would then be unknown.


Offline GrahamB

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Re: Help! mysterious knight saddle - unidentified in PlaymoDB
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2022, 08:59:58 »
Geobra are manufacturing parts for toys, not components of medical machinery, so the consistency between batches is not all that critical. Part numbers are often retained even when a different mold is used to create the parts. Likewise, the exact colour of parts can vary from batch to batch. Even if a given colour is specified, a slight variation may be allowed to pass quality inspection.

There are also numerous examples of sets where a part with a different number (but otherwise apparently identical, usually) may be included, perhaps in later releases when the stock of original parts ran out.

Attempts to get Geobra to disclose part numbers not shown in instruction sheets have not been met with success. Even if they keep records of what goes in each set, with variations, it is unlikely they will ever share this. (Apparently Lego are just the same with their products, I learnt recently).

So your dull red saddle may indeed be 30092840, or it might have a different number, but someone at Geobra decided it was a good enough match to the box picture (and in the early days, Geobra didn't always attempt to match the colours on the box, marking the packages 'Farben unverbindlich' - colours may vary).
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Offline zezemanolo

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Re: Help! mysterious knight saddle - unidentified in PlaymoDB
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2022, 12:48:05 »
:o You've opened them?? Good for you, I'm not that brave – 5731 is very rare this [European] side of the pond. I'm cursed with a MISB one, which I got in order to complete my Caparison Chart, but won't play this knight until I get a used one from somewhere.

Tell me: is there a parts sheet in 5731? If not, then the identification of the left saddle as ETN 30092840 in playmodb might be wrong. The two colours shown are standard shades in the playmoverse: I have many "minimal pairs" of items in the two colours around, so think we can exclude batch variation of a single variant. The ETN of the saddle in 5731 would then be unknown.

Yes, I have an army of green dragon soldiers, but concerning this 5731 knight, I only could get 7 after years looking for them. It is certainly one of the most difficult caparison knights to find these days (the only markets I spotted them with any regularity were US, Mexico and Australia).

Because of that, I started a project of building 5731 knights from scratch (piece by piece separately), noting that, in the end, I would have to resolve the 'caparison and shield dilemma' - as far as I knew, they were the only two pieces in this set that were 100% exclusive to 5731. Please find attached the current result of 2 'frankenstein knights' next to a legit one.

Thats how I noticed that in my 'frankenstein knights' I was using an incorrect saddle and belt loop, so then I tried to find the original ones.

As GrahamB correctly said, there is no instruction sheet in 5731, so we cannot be sure about its number.

I thought, therefore, that there might be other sets (even if few) that had the mysterious saddle and belt loop, so I could try to either a) identify the code or b) get the mysterious parts from these alternate sets.

As for the belt loop, I made progress, as it was possible to confirm that the it is being produced in new sets (such as the samurai from series 17).

However, as for the saddle, I was not successful, which leads me to believe that it may be another exclusive piece from set 5731...

By the way, my suspicion is that they used this stronger red on these pieces to match the edge of the shield which has this particular color.

Geobra are manufacturing parts for toys, not components of medical machinery, so the consistency between batches is not all that critical. Part numbers are often retained even when a different mold is used to create the parts. Likewise, the exact colour of parts can vary from batch to batch. Even if a given colour is specified, a slight variation may be allowed to pass quality inspection.

There are also numerous examples of sets where a part with a different number (but otherwise apparently identical, usually) may be included, perhaps in later releases when the stock of original parts ran out.

Attempts to get Geobra to disclose part numbers not shown in instruction sheets have not been met with success. Even if they keep records of what goes in each set, with variations, it is unlikely they will ever share this. (Apparently Lego are just the same with their products, I learnt recently).

So your dull red saddle may indeed be 30092840, or it might have a different number, but someone at Geobra decided it was a good enough match to the box picture (and in the early days, Geobra didn't always attempt to match the colours on the box, marking the packages 'Farben unverbindlich' - colours may vary).

Good point!! It really seems that the box picture shows a 30092840, which also led me to believe that this would be the right color. When opening the MISB knights, however, it was possible to verify that we are facing a different piece (similar, but not the same).

Offline GrahamB

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Re: Help! mysterious knight saddle - unidentified in PlaymoDB
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2022, 08:23:30 »
The inventory for 5731 in PlaymoDB is described by Heather (the owner of the website) as coming from a 'hand count.' There is no instruction sheet (zezemanolo and I have both opened MISB 5731 sets and can confirm this), so the part numbers listed in PlaymoDB are essentially guesses, comparing parts in the set with parts from other sets where the part number is known.

The klicky Is given number k5731, the shield is p5731a, the caparison is p5731c and the arm and leg greaves are p5631d, following the convention Heather uses to give numbers to klickies and parts where Geobra's official numbers are unknown. (p5631b may originally have been given to the helmet, but when it was used in set 5742, which had instructions and therefore a known part number, Heather will have substituted that for the p number- but that is pure conjecture on my part!)

The dull red saddle may well have a different part number from the one given; the box picture seems to show a bright red colour, but the actual one in the sets is dull red (mine too- I bought it MISB for the same reason as StJohn, ie the unique caparison) and of unknown number (perhaps it should be p5731e for now?). And most of what I wrote in my previous post may be irrelevant here.
At that moment the ship suddenly stopped rocking and swaying, the engine pitch settled down to a gentle hum. 'Hey Ford.' said Zaphod, 'that sounds good. Have you worked out the controls on this boat?' 'No,' said Ford, 'I just stopped fiddling with them.' (With thanks to Douglas Adams)

Offline Baron Marshall

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Re: Help! mysterious knight saddle - unidentified in PlaymoDB
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2022, 10:25:34 »
I have this shade of saddle, it came in set 5888 a knight blister pack, perhaps it was picked from the hopper for that set for yours?
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Offline StJohn

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Re: Help! mysterious knight saddle - unidentified in PlaymoDB
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2022, 10:47:44 »
The dull red saddle may well have a different part number from the one given; the box picture seems to show a bright red colour, but the actual one in the sets is dull red (mine too- I bought it MISB for the same reason as StJohn, ie the unique caparison) and of unknown number (perhaps it should be p5731e for now?). And most of what I wrote in my previous post may be irrelevant here.

Thank you for this, GrahamB – I see things exactly like you do (I wanted to object to your previous post but now don't have to :) )

I have this shade of saddle, it came in set 5888 a knight blister pack, perhaps it was picked from the hopper for that set for yours?

Thanks, Baron – this is very interesting. A saddle exclusive for the US market it seems to be!