PlaymoFriends
General => News => Topic started by: Hadoque on September 01, 2017, 19:38:32
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Today, I and some other collectors noticed the following:
The Direct Service (DS) American Civil War (ACW) Add-On sets Northern and Southern (Confederate) soldiers have suddenly been removed from all Playmobil online-shops;
6273 "Northern General", 6274 "3 Nothern soldiers", 6275 "Southern General" and 6276 "3 Southern soldiers".
According to reliable information from multiple sources on Klickywelt, these sets have also been removed from the German Funstores where DS-sets are sold in addition to general range products.
The sets in question have been around since several years and are still shown in the German DS-catalogue 2017-2018 and should therefore normally be available for purchase to at least May 2018 in Germany, and even longer in other countries (which get DS sets later but also can keep them longer).
So, what is going on?? ???
Have recent political/racial events in Charlottesville (US) potentially caused people in Zirndorf to have a "we-should-be-super-politically-correct" fit?
(imho they previously also had some "we-should-avoid-any-product-that-possibly-may-upset-that-other-religion" fits by discontinuing worldwide the Christmas Theme, and the Saint-Nicolas Theme in the Benelux-countries, and before that the deletion of a mountain-cross after release of pre-production pictures of a certain set...)
notification: this post is remade on request by moderator Tongello - orignal post moved to moderation-hub due to a technical issue
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Sounds about right, I also noticed on ebay yesterday that these sets were being sold for 50.00CAD a piece so I feel that some had insider information that these toys where being pulled. My contact at Playmobil says that you can still buy these sets by going through the parts order department and that the price has remained unchanged (for Canada anyways).
What is odd though is they are still selling 5249 Horse-Drawn Carriage with Cavalry Rider on Playmobil Canada but this may be because it is a actual retail box set
http://www.playmobil.ca/en/horse-drawn-carriage-with-cavalry-rider/5249.html
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What is odd though is they are still selling 5249 Horse-Drawn Carriage with Cavalry Rider on Playmobil Canada but this may be because it is a actual retail box set
http://www.playmobil.ca/en/horse-drawn-carriage-with-cavalry-rider/5249.html
Yes, I noticed it too about that one, it is also still available on Playmobil´s other countries webshops.
Meanwhile on Klickywelt forum, I read that also in the Funshop in Vienna (Austria) the DS soldiers have been pulled. According to KW-member Playmolook, the shoplady told that all DS- Western soldiers had been recalled "for unknown reasons".
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But 5249 is not an ACW set - they are the US Cavalry, you know the ones that fight the North American Indians.
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How silly.
That is.. terrible.
I find it a breach of contract. People (I assume) plan things according to availability...
I wasn't planning to get more - actually didn't get any of the US ones - but could not (OBVIOUSLY) resist the pretty confederates - grey + yellow.. well. Though I think I didn't get the commander.. not sure.
Anyways, now that they are not available.. I want them.
I was also wondering if the (old) sets will be erased from the playmohistory. You know, there was a <GASP> confederate flag, on a very handy set with two cavalrymen... Nope, there.
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I can get one of each set for you if you like Tarha
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I can get one of each set for you if you like Tarha
Thank you :wow: , but I don't really need them. Bought some of the south 3 pack some years ago, and in truth.. I probably have too many of those (too.) .. :-[
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But 5249 is not an ACW set - they are the US Cavalry, you know the ones that fight the North American Indians.
The Indians (sorry, Native Americans? American Aboriginals? I think Graham knows...) may have less "influence" in Zirndorf...
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The Indians (sorry, Native Americans? American Aboriginals? I think Graham knows...) may have less "influence" in Zirndorf...
Right. ::)
To me, they will always be indians. As opposed to cowboys.
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Today, I and some other collectors noticed the following (...)
Thanks for this, Hadoque. I am quite sure your interpretation is correct - ACW has suddenly been pulled and will not return for reasons of political correctness. There is much to say about this (hopefully later), but now I just want to emphasise the web searches and legwork underlying this hypothesis, as displayed on KW and here: Geobra simply does not communicate with us! Hence we act like the Kremlin watchers of the past (and present?). :lol: Sad, actually ... :(
I find it a breach of contract.
(...)
Anyways, now that they are not available.. I want them.
I agree - twice! :D
Best wishes
StJohn
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Right. ::)
To me, they will always be indians. As opposed to cowboys.
Chief Powhatan is my 12th Great grandfather and "Indians" is fine with me :)
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2 comments:
- This is the flipside of wanting more diversity and political awareness and so forth in PM sets. The price for that is losing the distinct cultural sets that frankly made PM something special. Merry Men's Hideout? Too eurocentric - we'll not see its like again. Christmas is oppressive. History itself must be rewritten to conform with modern notions of what's right. I'd guess this is why PM isn't rushing to cash in on the obvious moneymaker that the Luther klicky and his cultural brothers have pointed out: PM just doesn't want the trouble that would inevitably descend on them. O tempora, O mores.
- Snap up every 3783 you can find. A day might (will?) come when there will be legal penalties for purchasing one.
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I don't know how much of this is about political correctness. I think that if PM wanted to jump on the whole "PC" bandwagon, they wouldn't have released this particular batch of figures in the first place. Remember, the whole phenomenon of political correctness has been in motion for several years now, and since this iteration of Union/Confederate soldiers was released in 2013 (correct me if I'm wrong) I doubt that they would have entertained the notion of Confederate figures at all if cultural sensitivities have really been much of a factor in determining what hits the assembly line over the past few years. I think something else might be at play here, I just have no clue what it might be. What's strange is how sudden this decision seems to be - was there any advance warning or indication that these sets might be on the chopping block?
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Right. ::)
To me, they will always be indians. As opposed to cowboys.
I'm not sure that trying to avoid offending people warrants an eye roll.
While I love the aesthetic of the western town buildings, and collect them, I do find them problematic as a childrens toy, and I wonder if the only reason they're still making them is a bit of fan service. Even when I was a kid, the only interest I had in the 'wild west' was the Little House books, and I feel there was a lot more of it around then.
I think they wouldn't make any 'colonial' sets, and the wild west ones do strandle that border, so I'm not suprised they want to simplify it.
I don't think that Playmobil it going out of it's way to be PC - they're still very undiverse, and in fact avoided doing any religious figures for a long time, and have had far more in recent years....
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I'm not sure that trying to avoid offending people warrants an eye roll.
What I mean is that these days, EVERYTHING seems to be offensive for someone. Sometimes I have no idea what to say.
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I don't know how much of this is about political correctness. I think that if PM wanted to jump on the whole "PC" bandwagon, they wouldn't have released this particular batch of figures in the first place.
Probably they changed their mind with recent events in the USA. Why would they otherwise suddenly pull only the ACW-soldiers from their online shops and funstores, and leave everything else? They weren´t scheduled for discontinuation.
And as they have been around for years, I won´t believe there suddenly is a "technical" issue or such with (only) these particular figures.
When these were released, there was not so much commotion about ACW, confederates, flags, etc. as there is now. At least a few years ago it certainly wasn´t such a newsitem and all over the TV here in Europe.
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What I mean is that these days, EVERYTHING seems to be offensive for someone.
Exactly.
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Am I the only European who misses the 70s and 80s, when European companies didn't have to pander to the rest of the world? ::) ::) ::)
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Endlich gibt's hierzu mehr Infos. Die* Fakten sind, daß Playmobil laut einer Twittermitteilung des Präsidenten der USA beschuldigt wird, das urheberrechtlich geschütze Design der Uniformen widerrechtlich genutzt zu haben...
Finally more information is given. Theres are the* facts: According to a tweed by Mr President Donald Trump Playmobil is accused of a breech of copy rights by using trademarked US Uniform designs. That's why they had to withdraw all those figurines...
jj:
*alternativen, versteht sich - alternative, of course :P
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Endlich gibt's hierzu mehr Infos. Die* Fakten sind, daß Playmobil laut einer Twittermitteilung des Präsidenten der USA beschuldigt wird, das urheberrechtlich geschütze Design der Uniformen widerrechtlich genutzt zu haben...
Finally more information is given. Theres are the* facts: According to a tweed by Mr President Donald Trump Playmobil is accused of a breech of copy rights by using trademarked US Uniform designs. That's why they had to withdraw all those figurines...
jj:
*alternativen, versteht sich - alternative, of course :P
No, the real fake news comes from the Commander-in-Chief of the Playtagon:
"All ACW-soldiers have been recalled to active duty and are underway to Guam as a deterrent to the North-Korean threath."
:P
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He gets more unbelievable each day!
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Have someone tried to order them by mail (—> classic good old post), using the card in the catalogue?
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Have someone tried to order them by mail (—> classic good old post), using the card in the catalogue?
Marco,
As I have mentioned already in this post since I buy parts from Playmobil Canada all the time now and have some friendly staff there that help me out. I asked them point blank if I could still buy the sets in question and they advised that yes I could as long as I ordered it through the parts department. They did not go into why they were pulled from the on-line store and I was not going to push the subject further as I only needed to know if I could still get them or not.
Over all though, with the removal of these items, plus the discontinuation of the western and Indian theme as a whole it pushes me even more now to collect the rest of the MISB sets of these types before they are lost and forgotten.
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What I mean is that these days, EVERYTHING seems to be offensive for someone. Sometimes I have no idea what to say.
That's EXACTLY the problem.
I wish everyone would stop being overly sensitive babies. Leave the history sets alone
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But have Playmobil been fed fake news?
I've been though Trump's Facebook posts for the past few weeks and there's nothing there about Playmobil and if he had tweeted earlier in the year, surely it would have surfaced long ago?
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What's interesting is that the original Confederate flag, known as the stars and bars , is almost unknown today.
(http://www.flagslasvegas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/311475_stars-bars.jpg)
The flag, as you can see is based on the Austrian flag. Why, I don't know as the creator was Prussian. The Confederacy also adopted the grey uniforms of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
The design was chosen because it resembled the Stars and Stripes which was still viewed with respect by many in the Confederacy. Unfortunately it looked too like it during battle so the Confederacy adopted a battle flag which is where the current "confederate flag" comes from - sort of, because the modern version differs from that flag too.
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I've been though Trump's Facebook posts for the past few weeks and there's nothing there about Playmobil ...
Oh dear, I didn't intend anyone to undergo such distress... :-\. Maybe you just missed the * in my post:
Theres are the* facts: ...
...
*...alternative, of course :P
8}
jj:
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Oh dear, I didn't intend anyone to undergo such distress... :-\. Maybe you just missed the * in my post:
8}
jj:
I did! :lol:
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That's EXACTLY the problem.
I wish everyone would stop being overly sensitive babies. Leave the history sets alone
I tend to think that peoples who've been oppressed/enslaved/had there land stolen for hundreds for years sort of have a right to be 'sensitive'.
The Western sets have a bit of unique place in the 'historical' Playmobil sets because it's so recent - for a toy company that has always said it wouldn't make modern war toys - and because it's representing a fairly contentious history. Especially as the rest of the historical sets go ever further into fantasy territory.
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Everyone has been oppressed at some point in their history.
Like I said once, should Christians have called for a ban on the PM Roman arena because early Christians were fed to the lions there?
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I think it can reasonably be argued that the Roman oppression of Christians doesn't continue to impact on the life of Christians today
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I think it can reasonably be argued that the Roman oppression of Christians doesn't continue to impact on the life of Christians today
Like most have stated with what is currently going on in the US as well as the fact that the civil war ended only 152 years ago and what they were fighting for is still felt today by many that is the reason there is the issue. Where as the Roman Empire ceased to exist 1541 years ago.
There would be many that would argue now that Christianity has been oppressive amongst others. What we have to remember is Geobra is a company that wishes to make money and Playmobil happens to be its vessel of doing such. With the tensions around such an event coming to a boil this year and last in the United States (removal of flags from state houses, removal of statues from public places) I can see why too Geobra would make such a move. There are however a lot of us that are fascinated by war, and I very much enjoyed making civil war skirmishes with my playmobil when I was a child. I cannot say at the time I knew much if anything about what they were fighting for. But to risk sales of all toys from parents boy cotting a company over one small theme that Playmobil has already pretty much wrapped up does not make sense.
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The Western sets have a bit of unique place in the 'historical' Playmobil sets because it's so recent - for a toy company that has always said it wouldn't make modern war toys - and because it's representing a fairly contentious history. Especially as the rest of the historical sets go ever further into fantasy territory.
Spot on, Olivier!
I have wondered more than once about the prominence of cavalry in PM’s Western word, right from the start (1975!). That Western was going to be a big thing for a German toymaker is easy enough to understand in Karl May's land of birth, but I am not familiar with his novels to appreciate whether the blue coats play any significant part therein. If I may assume that they did, then having some soldiers in the mix seems acceptable enough, despite the company’s dogmatic No Modern Violence stance. After all, Cavalry vs. Indians sounds innocent enough, even if it wasn’t in the days.
But things definitely took a different turn in 1994, when the first Confederates appeared. That took PM out of the adventurous & romantic Wild West and straight into the gritty reality of (almost) modern warfare! Not in a million years would soldiers from the (almost contemporary) Franco-Prussian War have made it into the catalogue, but those ACW guys made it, somehow, thanks to the romance and adventure of their Western sugar-coating - artillery, grape shot, full-blooded flags and all included. Don’t get me wrong, many adult collectors (myself included) thoroughly enjoy them, but they really are at odds with the company’s guiding principles on military violence, which used to - and still do - matter a great deal in Germany. ACW is just weird in the PM catalogue, and I haven’t yet encountered a convincing clarification for their existence. I like to think it it was a rogue designer somehow slipping through the net, with sales figures never flashing a warning light ...
Now time has finally caught up, and what we are seeing is the abrupt and complete demise of ACW, blues and greys alike. Hold on to your figures and cherish them, for their world has well and truly passed ...
Best wishes
StJohn
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Hold on to your figures and cherish them, for their world has well and truly passed ...
Hold on to them all and not just the ACW, keep the fond innocent memories of childhood.
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Like most have stated with what is currently going on in the US as well as the fact that the civil war ended only 152 years ago and what they were fighting for is still felt today by many ...
Felt by who? A bunch of activists who grew up in an era where a black president held office for two terms? As time goes by you'd expect historic animosity to decrease, not increase as is being seen in America.
Most of the Confederate monuments are memorials to the war dead and celebrating the ending of the war. There are a handful of such which portray figures like Jefferson Davis which could be seen as divisive but it seems that most of the protesters, and counter protesters don't live in the areas being targeted suggesting political issues outside local feeling.
152 years ago is plenty long ago. There are successful countries younger than that.
How long until they drop the native Indians because some tribe complains about money being made off their image? Will all ethnic depictions disappear so as to be safe?
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I think it can reasonably be argued that the Roman oppression of Christians doesn't continue to impact on the life of Christians today
so basically it's not a question of X historical event being bad, but of X historical event still being fresh in people's memories? is that what you're saying? that's how it works? mmm. given enough time, it would be alright to have playmobil concentration camps?
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There would be many that would argue now that Christianity has been oppressive amongst others.
Let's not even go there....
What we have to remember is Geobra is a company that wishes to make money (...)
That is VERY VERY doubtful... ::)
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Only 2 years ago Geobra had no problem at all with Confederate soldiers,
they then released in Surprise Figures Series 8 the confederate soldier with the red cap;
http://animobil.info/figures/text/5d0863aa(shields)-1134.html
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the gritty reality of (almost) modern warfare
Besides trench-warfare an the introduction of the gatling-"machine"gun, there wasn´t much modern about it.
Generally, the same butchery as like during earlier (Napoleonic f.e.) wars and medieval battles.
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Most people here in the USA don't even know what Playmobil is and probably never will. Although I find it bizarre, I think Playmobil might have made the right decision in this case. They probably don't want any more possible bad publicity here (remember the Pirate Ship that was seen as racist a few years ago).
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(remember the Pirate Ship that was seen as racist a few years ago).
You are absolutely right, thanks for reminding. That painful episode no doubt was on their mind when making this decision.
Best wishes
StJohn
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Most people here in the USA don't even know what Playmobil is and probably never will. Although I find it bizarre, I think Playmobil might have made the right decision in this case. They probably don't want any more possible bad publicity here (remember the Pirate Ship that was seen as racist a few years ago).
Maybe withdraw the sets in the US, but why the rest of the world?
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Maybe withdraw the sets in the US, but why the rest of the world?
Ich schätze, von einer Spielzeugfirma, die auch Nazisoldaten vertreibt - und sei es nur außerhalb Deutschlands - würde ich vermutlich nichts kaufen wollen.
I'm not sure if I'd like to support a toy company known to spread Nazi-Soldiers - even if they wouldn't issue them here in Germany but in other countries only.
jj:
P.S. Ich glaube, das Thema hängt auch sehr vom persönlichen Hintergrund ab. Und manchmal wüßte ich echt gerne, wo z.B. jemand herkommt, der hier dieses oder jenes dazu schreibt. Die Aussage "Indianer paßt für mich" kommt aus dem Mund eines Nachfahren deutlich anders als z.B. von mir rüber. Manche verraten ihre Nationalität ja im Profil, bei anderen fänd ich's klasse, wenn sie hier ihre Heimat verraten würden, um die Aussagen noch ein wenig besser einsortieren zu können.
P.S. This topic seems to be a quite personal one and strongly influenced by cultural and national factors. So I sometimes wonder what your personal backgrounds are when stating your points of view here. It e.g. does make a difference if you or your family does have an Inidan background when, as stated above, someone writes "Indians is fine with me" (while written by me those words would turn out complete nonsense...). Some of us do disclose their nationality e.g. in their profiles. Maybe those usually not revealing their homeland or origin might do so in this context? It might make assessing their post easier if they did.
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In the PCC Playmobil-team has meanwhile responded that the sets are "sold out" Sure. ::)
When someone asked why all the Funstores then had to send back to Zirndorf the remaining stock, they (of course) didn´t have an answer.
Ich schätze, von einer Spielzeugfirma, die auch Nazisoldaten vertreibt - und sei es nur außerhalb Deutschlands - würde ich vermutlich nichts kaufen wollen.
I'm not sure if I'd like to support a toy company known to spread Nazi-Soldiers - even if they wouldn't issue them here in Germany but in other countries only.
I can´t see anything "Nazi" about Confederate soldiers. (Or about the Yankee ones, don´t forget they too have been pulled from the DS assortment). The US civil war took place in the 1860s, not in the 1930s or 1940s.
It are racists and US-based Nazis who (ab)use the old confederate flag.
Okay, the confederates were against the abolishment of slavery but you have to see that in a mid-19th century context, and it is a far cry from what the Nazis did 80 years later.
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Okay, the confederates were against the abolishment of slavery but you have to see that in a mid-19th century context
Many of them had the attitude that if god didn't want slavery then it would cease somehow. That's one of the reasons why many prominent people in the Confederacy supported black freedom after the war. They reasoned that god had set the slaves free.
It was a very similar concept to the old judicial duel in the middle ages whereby guilt was determined through trial by combat. God wouldn't let the innocent be defeated.
Of course immediately after the war the freed blacks served in the army helping to push back the indian tribes to make room for civilisation. Manifest Destiny and all that. There was also a lot of interest in returning the freed slaves to Africa but the money wasn't put forward though some were sent to Liberia. I believe Lincoln was working on something to that effect when he was assassinated.
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Okay, the confederates were against the abolishment of slavery but you have to see that in a mid-19th century context, and it is a far cry from what the Nazis did 80 years later.
OT, but I seriously doubt most in the north were in favor of ending slavery. They didn't want the Union to break, which is a different matter.
They didn't think (IMO, I wasn't there!) the black people were their equals, and surely didn't want them to come and take their jobs. Resettled in Africa ok, free in the North.. meh.
As to the southerners, they didn't want the north dictating their way of life, and the economy did depend on a big part on ancient methods, powered by slavery. Not easy to stand aside and see it just fall to ruin, I suppose.
I believe Lincoln wanted to compensate the slave owners and end it peacefully, but hotheads on both sides prevailed :'(
On topic, pcc answer not surprising.
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I can´t see anything "Nazi" about Confederate soldiers.
Sorry, no offence ment - neither a general comparison of German Nazi-times and ACW. I refered to playmofires question why Playmobil withdrew those sets everywhere and not just in the USA. So what I intended to compare were people obviously offended by certain figurines. To them it might not make so big a difference if those figurines where sold in their country or at other places only, they are likely to shun the company issuing them. And as ACW does have no personal meaning to me I chose a topic likely to be much more delicate to me as a German than to others.
Hoppla, da gab's ein Mißverständnis. Es liegt mir fern, den amerikanischen Bürgerkrieg mit Nazideutschland zu vergleichen. Ausgangspunkt war Playmofires Frage, weshalb die Figuren nicht nur in den USA sondern überall aus dem Handel genommen wurden. Darauf bezieht sich meine Antwort: Menschen, die sich an einem Produkt stoßen, wollen vermutlich, daß dieses Produkt generell nicht mehr vertrieben wird, nicht nur in ihrem Land. Daher mein Vergleich, da ich als Deutscher auf vieles, was mit dem Thema Nationalsozialismus zusammenhängt, vermutlich empfindlicher reagiere als Andere.
jj:
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On topic, pcc answer not surprising.
Aber überraschend unklug. Als ob wirklich niemand mitbekommen würde, daß da Bestände plötzlich vom Personal und nicht von auskaufenden Kunden aus dem Regal genommen wurden. Ein Patzer des Presseteams, würde ich sagen.
But surprisingly imprudent. As if really noone noticed stock beeing removed by staff and not by bying customers. A classic press team's fail I daresay.
jj:
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But surprisingly imprudent. As if really noone noticed stock beeing removed by staff and not by bying customers. A classic press team's fail I daresay.
But, again, not surprising :-\
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Okay, the confederates were against the abolishment of slavery but you have to see that in a mid-19th century context, and it is a far cry from what the Nazis did 80 years later.
Also, to my knowledge, most Confederate soldiers did not own slaves. The lower ranks in any army are typically the not-so-wealthy folks. There were black soldiers on both sides (it might be a bit controversial to add one to the Confederate trio, but PM might consider adding one to the Union trio). The Civil War is a touchy subject, especially at the moment.
A Civil War era plantation set with enslaved staff would be completely inappropriate for a children's toy, but I feel that is different than representing the war that led to slavery being made illegal. A toy shouldn't represent slavery or genocide, regardless of era. WWII is too close to living memory for even the soldiers to be represented. However, I feel like the only reason the Western theme and the Civil War sets have stuck around this long is because PM is German. The whole Wild West thing seems very old timey to me; not in a historical sense, but in a popularity sense. It belongs to the era of John Wayne movies. It's not the sort of theme American children are into these days.
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I feel like the only reason the Western theme and the Civil War sets have stuck around this long is because PM is German. The whole Wild West thing seems very old timey to me; not in a historical sense, but in a popularity sense. ...
Sehen wir den Tatsachen ins Auge: Das ist in Deutschland heute nicht anders. Wie StJohn oben schrieb: Früher, als Karl May noch in aller Munde und Bücherregal war, als Western von Gestern lief und jeder Pierre Brice kannte, war das anders. Aber heute...
Let's face facts: it's quite the same in 2017's Germany. Times when - als stated by StJohn above - Karl May was well known and Pierre Brice everybody's favourite are long since gone here too.
jj:
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Also, to my knowledge, most Confederate soldiers did not own slaves. The lower ranks in any army are typically the not-so-wealthy folks.
Of course. They defended their home.. or looked for a living.
There were black soldiers on both sides (it might be a bit controversial to add one to the Confederate trio, but PM might consider adding one to the Union trio). The Civil War is a touchy subject, especially at the moment.
I don't think the confederates had black soldiers on the beginning...
There was a black soldier (or 2?) in the cavalry sets.. and on a surprise egg as well.
The whole Wild West thing seems very old timey to me; not in a historical sense, but in a popularity sense. It belongs to the era of John Wayne movies. It's not the sort of theme American children are into these days.
Yes. When I was a kid westerns were VERY popular. Cowboys and indians and cavalry and all that... now.. not so much.
That and pirate movies (proper pirates, not that supernatural junk that passes for those today!) - with Errol Flynn and such. Again, these days.. movies, nothing since Cutthroat Island (we rewatched the dvd last weekend).. though we had Black Sails recently.
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Sehen wir den Tatsachen ins Auge: Das ist in Deutschland heute nicht anders. Wie StJohn oben schrieb: Früher, als Karl May noch in aller Munde und Bücherregal war, als Western von Gestern lief und jeder Pierre Brice kannte, war das anders. Aber heute...
Let's face facts: it's quite the same in 2017's Germany. Times when - als stated by StJohn above - Karl May was well known and Pierre Brice everybody's favourite are long since gone here too.
jj:
Thanks for the insight. I was wondering what kids in Germany thought about the western theme. In the area where I live, if you see someone in a cowboy hat, they are either from Santa Fe or they're German. :lol: These are adults though (40 yrs and up). If PM wants to keep the Western theme, maybe they should try marketing towards adults more. 8}
I don't think the confederates had black soldiers on the beginning...
There was a black soldier (or 2?) in the cavalry sets.. and on a surprise egg as well.
I meant historically, in real life. Of course, some of the Confederate ones were bribed with promises of freedom if they fought.
I didn't realize there were black klickies in the CW sets.
I watched some western shows when I was a kid, but they were already really old by that point.
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Also, to my knowledge, most Confederate soldiers did not own slaves. The lower ranks in any army are typically the not-so-wealthy folks. There were black soldiers on both sides (it might be a bit controversial to add one to the Confederate trio, but PM might consider adding one to the Union trio). The Civil War is a touchy subject, especially at the moment.
Correct. Most Southerners did not own slaves. Aside from Plantation Owners, much of the South was very poor, but they were fighting for their homes.
The Civil War was not totally about slavery, but rather it was about economics. The rich north was using the poor south to get richer (price of cotton for export etc.).
There were actually more slaves in New York and Boston than in the entire South. And slavery existed in the Northern States into the 1880s.
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I meant historically, in real life.
I meant in real life too.
Nobody expected the war to last. I believe the black soldiers on the Confederacy side must have been later, when cannon fodder was harder to find...
Actually, probably the same was true in the north - "they put me in a uniform, call me soldier, but still put a shovel in my hand" - or something like that...
playmowise, there is at least one cavalry set with a black soldier.. an update of 3485... So one that could go as non-war related (but as someone pointed out, all the "north" ones can).
Looked: 3811. This one even has an indian scout, so definetily farther from the civil war, with a "buffalo soldier"...
(and I think it is only one set)
Correct. Most Southerners did not own slaves. Aside from Plantation Owners, much of the South was very poor, but they were fighting for their homes.
The Civil War was not totally about slavery, but rather it was about economics. The rich north was using the poor south to get richer (price of cotton for export etc.).
Exactly. Except for a few idealists, slavery was not THE issue, I think.
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I meant in real life too.
Nobody expected the war to last. I believe the black soldiers on the Confederacy side must have been later, when cannon fodder was harder to find...
Actually, probably the same was true in the north - "they put me in a uniform, call me soldier, but still put a shovel in my hand" - or something like that...
Ah, yes. Supportive roles pay less than combat roles, and I expect there was a certain amount of fear about giving black soldiers firearms.
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There were actually more slaves in New York and Boston than in the entire South. And slavery existed in the Northern States into the 1880s.
I have avoided entering the fray on this discussion so far, but I have to respond to this comment, which seems incorrect to me. May I ask what is the source of data for this idea? Boston was actually one of the hot-beds of Abolitionists long before the Civil War began. The history of slavery in the United States is long, complicated, and tragic, and all of us discussing that history should be very careful to make sure the facts we state are correct.
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[color=blue
I'm not sure if I'd like to support a toy company known to spread Nazi-Soldiers - even if they wouldn't issue them here in Germany but in other countries only.[/color]
jj:
In the UK, even in the years soon after the war, WW2 combatants were always known by their nationality. Thus, sets of WW2 German soldiers were described as Second World War German Infantry or World War 2 German Africa Korps. Indeed, many British troops (and members of other branches of the British armed forces) held their German opponents in high esteem, notably Rommel and the Afrika Korps, although this was not extended to the "political" troops, e.g. the Waffen SS.
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Ja, kann man so sehen. Ich selber schaffe das nicht, weil unsere Wehrmacht einen Angriffskrieg geführt hat und dabei auch an vielen zivilen Massakern beteiigt war, die häuft auch politisch bedingt waren. Ich denke, wir Deutschen sind da sehr empfindlich. Von daher kann ich nachvollziehen, wenn andere Länder auch ihre Wundpunkte haben, selbst wenn ich das Thema jetzt nicht so dramatisch finde (weil's eben nicht "meine" Geschichte ist).
Well, yes, one can say so. But I can't as our Wehrmacht has been waging an offenisive war and was killing civilians on policital interests. I daresy most Germans are a trifle overtouchy if it's about antything connected to our Nazi-History. Therefore I can understand others beeing over sensitive - even if their delicate topics aren't mine.
jj:
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Ah, yes. Supportive roles pay less than combat roles, and I expect there was a certain amount of fear about giving black soldiers firearms.
Quite possibly, but black slaves were armed during the revolution too. Slavery is a complicated issue. One anecdote I recall is a slave owner putting out an alert that some of his slaves had escaped. He said they would be easy to identify as they only spoke Gaelic - the language of the Scottish Highlanders.
I'll add that the continued existence of the Western theme is surprising given the lack of "cowboy" programmes these days. The same is true of the knights theme unfortunately.
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I am going to bow out of this conversation. For me this post is now past the point of why Playmobil stop selling the figures and pulled them from the website direct service range.
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I believe it is - once again - time for this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0
;D
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I have avoided entering the fray on this discussion so far, but I have to respond to this comment, which seems incorrect to me. May I ask what is the source of data for this idea? Boston was actually one of the hot-beds of Abolitionists long before the Civil War began. The history of slavery in the United States is long, complicated, and tragic, and all of us discussing that history should be very careful to make sure the facts we state are correct.
My US Civil War Studies Class in College. Which by the way was in Shepherdstown, West Virginia (very much involved in the abolition movement and Civil War as well). Boston was a hot bed of abolitionists. But many in Boston had "house servants." Boston was winding down their slavery before the war, (it was actually abolished in 1780 there) but during the Colonial Period they were very active in the slave trade. Even slaves worked at Harvard University (they actually wrote their own research paper on
this).
The 54th Massachusetts Regiment is widely known for being one of the first "All Black" units in the Civil War. It was made up of "free blacks" and many former slaves from many surrounding states. They fought courageously even though it was made known that any such soldiers caught by the Southern Army as prisoners of war would be sold into slavery.
So sorry that I did not put the correct context, but Boston had a very influential presence on slavery in "The New World."
I do wish however that Playmobil would have done some more historical accuracy when they did their US Civil War Klickies (the ability to have a 54th Massachusetts or the "Buffalo Soldiers" from the American West, but historically there were black soldiers in the Confederate Army towards the end of the war (which essentially earned them freedom as a reward for fighting)- that would have been appealing to me as I love the history of the 54th.)
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I do wish however that Playmobil would have done some more historical accuracy when they did their US Civil War Klickies (the ability to have a 54th Massachusetts or the "Buffalo Soldiers" from the American West, but historically there were black soldiers in the Confederate Army towards the end of the war (which essentially earned them freedom as a reward for fighting)- that would have been appealing to me as I love the history of the 54th.)
"More historical accuracy" would greatly improve many Playmo themes.
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I am going to bow out of this conversation. For me this post is now past the point of why Playmobil stop selling the figures and pulled them from the website direct service range.
And that is why this topic will now be locked.
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