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General => Report & Review => Topic started by: sweetking on January 04, 2011, 13:42:42

Title: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: sweetking on January 04, 2011, 13:42:42
This topic won't be the presentation of the box as there is not so much to present in the box and as I don't have one at home :/


Most of you will anyway know much about this box released in 1991 : 5580

I allways found it was a bit out of the global victorian universe, which is only a personnal opinion.


Looking further into Lyra's production (Greece), I found the 8006 box 8006 on this well informed website :

http://www.toymuseum.gr/playmobil-bigsets-new.htm (http://www.toymuseum.gr/playmobil-bigsets-new.htm)

What can we spot ? Similar hussards but dated 1984 or 1985, and also some shelters for guard strangely looking like the one released by Geobra in 1991 (box 5581)


As Geobra seem to have sold some Lyra or Schaper components in 1986 in the 3955 barrel, I believe they bought all the on-going production stock of components from Lyra around 1985 (Closure of playmobil production at Lyra).

I also believe they slightly modified the shako hat and the shelter to reach the 1991 versions, in order to use moulds and tools bought back from Lyra. There is only one step to do before guessing the 1900 universe was perhaps created to integrate these marvellous innovations from Lyra... and I'll do this step for sure.

What is your opinion ?
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wolf Knight on January 04, 2011, 14:50:11
Its an interesting conclusion Arhtur... But I'll give you another...

It was never known if Lyra ever produced her own moulds... maybe someone who used to work in Lyra can know the answer... But, I know for certain that Lyra was getting their moulds form Geobra and produced rather low quality plastic playmobil... Maybe Geobra gave these molds to Lyra before deciding to use them for production, just to experiment how they will do on the market... or maybe Lyra got these molds and produce them without authorisation... Thus, when Geobra decided to produce them, they either knew these sets would make good sales, or they wanted to produce something better than what Lyra had produced...

Just a few confirmed facts and unconfirmed thoughts...
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: playmo1989 on January 04, 2011, 16:26:53
i have these sets from lyra they were a couple more that had these guards  (i found a picture of one of the sets on google):
 

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_sJVCqgXuL5Q/SY2w9HpYg2I/AAAAAAAAARA/HZNCCcsTJoo/s320/PLAYMOBIL+LYRA.jpg)
 


i was wondering about this issue as well i think lyra made playmobil until 1990 so probably lyra took the moulds from geobra (this set 5580 was realesed by geobra in 1989 not in 1991 as you staited so that's how lyra made copies of these parts) 


* and one detail the figures on the photo of the lyra box are not made by lyra ,the lyra ones are very weird the mustache is totally different (not at all like any playmobil mustach) and the trousers don't have the red line on the side  ;)
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Andy R on January 05, 2011, 05:36:40
I actually wanna see this set come backů
(http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6671.0;attach=31723;image)
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: sweetking on January 05, 2011, 06:32:55
WolfKnight, Playmmo1989...

Either on tomuseum.gr and in the collector book, it is written Lyra stopped producing playmobil in 1985/86. You both say they were new releases under lyra brand till 1990.

Could you please confirm this fact and can you say when the "new" boxes appeared ? According to this facts and also the presence of rotating hands on some of the figures in these "new" boxes... we could assume that Playmobil Hellas continued to use the "Lyra" logo even after the stop of production by Lyra itself.
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wolf Knight on January 05, 2011, 09:49:53
Let me get back home, check a few boxes and I'll let you know more  ;)

For the time being I can tell you that Lyra was officialy bankrupt in 1986 but did not close down until 1989, when Playmobil Hellas took over. Playmobil hellas never sold any Lyra sets. The ''new'' boxes came out within this period of '86-'89 (still need to see my boxes to confirm this 100%) because at that time, the playmobil produced by Lyra was not under the approval of Geobra... lower quality plastic, mistakes in productions, no safety features and regulations...

Believe me there were a lot of legal matters involved between Lyra and Geobra in that four year time period.

I'll get back to you with more.
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wolf Knight on January 05, 2011, 19:06:38
Ok so here is the first box, dated 1976....

This is very good quality plasti, identical to the Geobra factory playmobil...
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wolf Knight on January 05, 2011, 19:09:20
And here is the ''new'' box....

 :hmm: 1978 production date...

But, do you notice any dfference between what is written on the first box and what is written on the ''new'' ?...
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wolf Knight on January 05, 2011, 19:35:51
You may have noticed that the ''new'' box says nothing about a licence...so my original verdict may be wrong... Maybe these are sets produced exclusively by Lyra, and made from Lyra moulds... So maybe the Hussars are indeed Lyra and later changed as you suggested Arthur to produce the victorian set...

But there is another complication, one that could both confirm your guess and at the same time, based on my source, speculate the notion that Lyra did indeed only use Geobra moulds...


Have a look at the pic.. this horse has a different head from the original playmobil horse...maybe Lyra changed the head in order to avoid lawsuits... but then, why bother keep the playmobil logo, or even the same klickies, whose feet have no indication of whether this is Lyra or Geobra btw... you might also notice that the arm of the klicky is broken...another good example of low quality product!

Finally, a confirmed source tells me that Lyra did indeed get all their moulds from Geobra and produced the low quality sets in a Balkan counrty... Geobra finally lawsuited Lyra for producing these low quality playmobil sold in the ''new'' box... But if Lyra did get the moulds from Geobra and did not produce any themselves, how come this horse has a different head? Did Geobra give to Lyra moulds they produced but never used (we know designs exist that never made it to production, like the red house etc)? Maybe... As I said earlier, only a person who used to work in Lyra can varify any of this...
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: skypurr on January 06, 2011, 01:24:14
I love the 4001 Lyra set with the children with balloons, windmills and skipping ropes.

http://www.toymuseum.gr/playmobil-bigsets-new.htm

Were these accessories only produced by Lyra?

Elaine (http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/mgqueen.gif)
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: bonniebeth on January 06, 2011, 01:26:26
Cool!! I never saw those windmills before!
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wolf Knight on January 06, 2011, 07:13:36
I love the 4001 Lyra set with the children with balloons, windmills and skipping ropes.

http://www.toymuseum.gr/playmobil-bigsets-new.htm

Were these accessories only produced by Lyra?

Elaine (http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/mgqueen.gif)

I doudt you'll love it once you see the quality of it Elaine...maybe some pieces and parts would be broken... Still, it is a lovely set if designed accourding to good specifications and pass through good quality control!

As for the accessories, once again, we cannot say for sure... maybe they were moulds created from Lyra or moulds that Geobra never produced...
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: sweetking on January 06, 2011, 21:05:11
Thanks for the pictures WolfKnight !

some facts

Standard Lyra boxes present only standard boxes or parts from playmobil, but the colour of some accessories.
You may find one-piece-armes figures and some rotating-hands figures in these boxes
Theses boxes do have the licence mention.

New Lyra boxes introduce new components (windmill, skipping ropes, shakos, etc.) that were never used by playmobil (shakos and guard shelters do exist but with some differences)
This "new" boxes present both type of figures and event mix of both types in the same box
These boxes don't have the "licence" text on them

I am not sure we can figure the truth but we can make some suppositions :

Lyra produced sets under licence from 1976, some were exact copies of german boxes, some were rearrangement of Geobra parts.
Around 1978, they started to produce some really local boxes (the "new ones"), probably without informing Geobra
In 1985/86 Lyra was on a dire strait and had probably some legal issues with Playmobil Hellas, which was created in 1985.
Following this point, playmobil took over the production (please see that no standard box released after 85/86 is known with Lyra logo) but probably because of the legal continuation of Lyra, Geobra had to let Lyra sell some "new" boxes.
Regarding the specific components, I would believe some moulds were specially created by Lyra.

Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wolf Knight on January 06, 2011, 22:54:21
Just to correct you there Arthur, Playmobil Hellas is not Lyra. The people who owned Lyra are either dead or in jail.

Lyra was in legal issues with Geobra, not with Playmobil Hellas.
Playmobil Hellas was founded by Geobra in 1989, not 1985, and they never produced playmobil in Greece, nor sold Lyra sets. All sets were, and are, imported from Germany. Playmobil Hellas are not the continuation of Lyra.
Lyra had to shut down because they were heavily indebted to Geobra and went bankrupt. So the factory was shut down.
Herr B was furious with the people of Lyra producing and selling low quality playmobil products from his moulds, and they were indeed his moulds as a playmobil hellas official has informed me.

Lyra might have created and used their own moulds but nobody has confirmed that to me.

Something else, the ''new boxes might write 1978 on them but that does not mean that they did not come out of the assembly line in the early or mid 1980's ... this explans why one could find Lyra sets in some toy shops until 1990-1992.
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Rasputin on January 07, 2011, 13:12:01
HI

The more you know how Mr B does business the more you see why there is less and less Playmobil independent distributors in the US .

Thanks for the interesting info

Rasputin "The Mad Monk"
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: playmo1989 on January 07, 2011, 13:37:11
this explans why one could find Lyra sets in some toy shops until 1990-1992.



i found all my lyra sets in a toystore in 1999-2000  :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wolf Knight on January 07, 2011, 14:50:49


i found all my lyra sets in a toystore in 1999-2000  :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

Probably noone was interested in buying them Alex.
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: sweetking on January 07, 2011, 15:13:40


i found all my lyra sets in a toystore in 1999-2000  :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:


This may happen (I found so far 5 old boxes in shops - youngest one is dated 1991) when shop is not well known, when toys is only a part of their activity, when it is in a small isolated town, and so on.


Regarding difference between Lyra and Playmobil Hellas I fully understand it. When I said that Playmobil took over production, I mis-said my thinking : I meant "they took over commercialization and distribution of Playmobil in Greece".

I thought P.H. was created in 1985/1986, not 1989.

What is strange is that Lyra stopped introducing new official release from Geobra in 1986... which could mean that no new official released reached Greece in between 1986 and 1989.

Regarding the commercialization of the "new lyra" boxes from before 1982 (fix hands) it could be one of the main reason of legal pursuit engaged by G.B. against Lyra.
Legal procedure and justice decision could also be the reason why Lyra could continue to sell the "new" boxes after G.B. the license from them... as Playmobil must have been the main activity for Lyra, which legally entangled G.B to sustain Lyra company even after removing authorization to sell Playmobils... sustainance could have been these parallel versions...
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wesley Myers on January 07, 2011, 15:21:37
Just to correct you there Arthur, Playmobil Hellas is not Lyra. The people who owned Lyra are either dead or in jail.

Lyra might have created and used their own moulds but nobody has confirmed that to me.


If they are in jail, then it should be pretty easy to book an appointment with them and find out what really happened.   ;D

They would probably be happy to have someone come see them on visitation days. 
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: playmo1989 on January 10, 2011, 10:36:22

This may happen when shop is not well known, when toys is only a part of their activity, when it is in a small isolated town, and so on.




yes the strange thing is that they were in a central place not somewhere isolated store ,in the central steet  (i don't know if you know from athens pano ,in agia paraskevi agiou ioannou ) :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wolf Knight on January 10, 2011, 11:25:05


yes the strange thing is that they were in a central place not somewhere isolated store ,in the central steet  (i don't know if you know from athens pano ,in agia paraskevi agiou ioannou ) :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

Yes I know the street, one of my best friends lives in agia paraskevi... People know that these boxes contain very low quality products, that way they don't buy it. For someone who is not a collector, i see no point in getting these ''new'' boxes. Maybe thats wya they remained there for so long...
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: playmo1989 on January 11, 2011, 13:33:46
Yes I know the street, one of my best friends lives in agia paraskevi... People know that these boxes contain very low quality products, that way they don't buy it. For someone who is not a collector, i see no point in getting these ''new'' boxes. Maybe thats wya they remained there for so long...


hmmm.. true yes but me as a kid (10 years old) i knew that these were something rare so i bought them all  ;D (even the law quality ) i think there was a lyra "fort union" as well in that store that i didn't bought ,i've seen this once on ebay in a rediculous price 500 $ also in an aggelia in the newspaper "xrisi eukairia " someone was asking 150 euros for it without the box  ??? ???
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Wolf Knight on January 11, 2011, 15:06:51


hmmm.. true yes but me as a kid (10 years old) i knew that these were something rare so i bought them all  ;D (even the law quality ) i think there was a lyra "fort union" as well in that store that i didn't bought ,i've seen this once on ebay in a rediculous price 500 $ also in an aggelia in the newspaper "xrisi eukairia " someone was asking 150 euros for it without the box  ??? ???

There's a lyra fort union now on ebay for $225  8}
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: sweetking on January 11, 2011, 15:27:48
There's a lyra fort union now on ebay for $225  8}

I've seen plenty of Lyra boxes in Japan this last summer, but didn't by any... as I couldn't afford 60 bucks for one single figure in box.

Do not believe Japan is the place to sell all your boxes... I saw the exact same sets two years ago at exact same price in exact same shop...  when I say exact same price, it was around 5 000 yens... $65 in 2011, only $40 in 2008.
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: playmoed on January 13, 2011, 13:38:28
Hi,

Was that in robotrobot ?
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: flatcat on January 13, 2011, 13:40:59
A Lyra cavalry set has recently been put on ebay UK (although a little pricey) :P

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Playmobil-Art-Nr-3L40-1976-Made-Greece-Lyra-/320641709339?pt=UK_Toys_Creative_Educational_RL&hash=item4aa7bc351b (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Playmobil-Art-Nr-3L40-1976-Made-Greece-Lyra-/320641709339?pt=UK_Toys_Creative_Educational_RL&hash=item4aa7bc351b)

Damo :)
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: sweetking on January 13, 2011, 14:20:34
Hi,

Was that in robotrobot ?

Yes it was. a little pricey shop...

Not the most expensive one, but not cheap at all. Playmoland at Shimokitazawa is nice to see too.
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: playmo1989 on January 14, 2011, 12:38:10
A Lyra cavalry set has recently been put on ebay UK (although a little pricey) :P

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Playmobil-Art-Nr-3L40-1976-Made-Greece-Lyra-/320641709339?pt=UK_Toys_Creative_Educational_RL&hash=item4aa7bc351b (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Playmobil-Art-Nr-3L40-1976-Made-Greece-Lyra-/320641709339?pt=UK_Toys_Creative_Educational_RL&hash=item4aa7bc351b)

Damo :)




oh nooooo!!!!! :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no:
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Giorginetto on January 19, 2011, 12:10:14
i have these sets from lyra they were a couple more that had these guards  (i found a picture of one of the sets on google):


could you share a pic of these sets for us here Alex ? PM if interested to sell them  also actually !!!  ;)
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: playmo1989 on January 20, 2011, 17:39:36
could you share a pic of these sets for us here Alex ? PM if interested to sell them  also actually !!!  ;)

i don't know how to post picture george ,and i don't have a camera ,to sell them... yes why not ( note' i only have the boxes the klickys are apart ....)
Title: Re: 5580 - The Republican Guard / Hussards
Post by: Giorginetto on January 24, 2011, 12:27:15
If they are in jail, then it should be pretty easy to book an appointment with them and find out what really happened.   ;D

They would probably be happy to have someone come see them on visitation days. 

I will give them some choocy to tellme where this moulds are , get them and make a huge nuremberg army .. OOoooOOoooooooohhh yes  :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: