PlaymoFriends
General => Report & Review => Topic started by: BlackPearl2006 on November 05, 2010, 18:47:43
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Not to be so controversal, my apologies, but it's really been bothering me:
Am I the only one that feels a bit unsettled about the Afrikan klikies' faces? I was customizing some of my pirates the other night....I have pirates of all sorts of different ethnic backgrounds. I felt unsettled the more I looked at the Afrikan klikie faces. To my knowlege, the Afrikan klikies are the only klikies with bigger eyes, with whites around the eyes, and with mouths that are white (teeth?) also a bit bigger.
To give the benefit of doubt, one might venture to say it is only because of the darker colour that the eyes and mouth(teeth) are highlighted with white so they can be seen against the darker colour. However, the very same shirtless Afrikan kliky I have also has black chest hair which stands out just fine against the same dark brown plastic. I'm sure that having black eyes/mouth without the white would have worked just fine on the face.
To me, the connatations of these aesthetic differences are disturbing. Bugs me enough that I intend to repaint any Afrikan klikies I have. Plus, aesthetically speaking, I don't really like the way it looks either.
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Works fine for me! I see them as being special actually...and maybe you are right, they look bigger but they are not. Its due to the background brown colour!
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Works fine for me! I see them as being special actually...and maybe you are right, they look bigger but they are not. Its due to the background brown colour!
I think it's due to the white mouth and the whites of the eyes as white makes things look bigger. Just look at a woman wearing white high-heeled shoes and you'll see what I mean - Minnie Mouse isn't in it!
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I believe it is indeed to contrast them from the rest of his face.
The reason they didn't do the the same with the chest hair is because they didn't need to.
It is a much larger design, across a more open surface thus it doesn't need as much contrast.
I find the faces fine though. :)
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I must admit that I don't really like them. I think they look silly and a bit creepy. :0
I would prefer to see them with black eyes and mouth like all the others.
Elaine (http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/mgqueen.gif)
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I've always thought they looked a bit off. :(
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I don't have a problem with them at all, although some do come out looking a bit 'scarier' than others, when the printing isn't precisely aligned
Damo :)
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I have no problem with it. When you look at a dark-skinned human face the whites of the eyes and teeth are more prominent due to the contrast, so why shouldn't they be on a klicky? That's all that Geobra are trying to achieve,
It would be nice to have matching eyes on the Caucasian faces with colored irises, but they white would look odd without a further outline to add definition. I hate the sneaky sideways eyes though, I hope they don't start putting those on the dark-skinned klickies, I like their open honest faces as they are.
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I've always thought they looked a bit off. :(
I agree.
Does anyone know when Playmobil first began producing klickies of color? I remember writing to Playmobil in the early 80's asking if the made klickies in a variety of ethnicities. I wanted to buy some to enhance the sets that I had bought for the classroom. I wrote to them, because one of my students was coloring the face and hands of his favorite klicky with a brown magic marker. I never heard back from Playmobil, bu I guess a true customizer was born!
Joe
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I have always HATED them! It drives me crazy, actually. if you look at the african american child klickys, they just have black (or brown? I can't remember) eyes and mouth and it looks fine! I wish they would do the same with the adults.
it also drives me crazy that they seem to always have them dressed in really loud clothes. I do realize that playmobil is made in germany, and any africans there are immigrants, and maybe they do dress differently. I don't know. But being here in the US, I would love to have african American looking klickys visiting my zoo. I only have one dark skinned family, and the way they are dressed, they look African, not American. I wish they were wearing normal clothes, just like anyone else. Sorry for the long rant, but been wanting to get that off my chest.
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I have no problem with it. When you look at a dark-skinned human face the whites of the eyes and teeth are more prominent due to the contrast, so why shouldn't they be on a klicky? That's all that Geobra are trying to achieve,
It would be nice to have matching eyes on the Caucasian faces with colored irises, but they white would look odd without a further outline to add definition. I hate the sneaky sideways eyes though, I hope they don't start putting those on the dark-skinned klickies, I like their open honest faces as they are.
Better said than I would have said it. I agree completely.
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I have always HATED them! It drives me crazy, actually. if you look at the african american child klickys, they just have black (or brown? I can't remember) eyes and mouth and it looks fine! I wish they would do the same with the adults
I also dislike the white eyes and mouth on the adult klicky. Years ago I wrote to Playmobil about this... It reminds me of the vaudeville faces on black actors. The eyes on the child klickys are indeed just fine! Thank you for bringing this up...I have been festering for a long time over this,
and have not purchased many adult ethnic klickys because of it.
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I also dislike the white eyes and mouth on the adult klicky. Years ago I wrote to Playmobil about this... It reminds me of the vaudeville faces on black actors. The eyes on the child klickys are indeed just fine! Thank you for bringing this up...I have been festering for a long time over this,
and have not purchased many adult ethnic klickys because of it.
The reference to the vaudeville faces (there are other terms to describe this) is pretty much what was bugging me as well.
Assuming the afrikan klickies were introduced in the early 80's (I need to check exactly when they were first produced) I'm going to guess the reason the Afrikan klikies have this difference was originally a reflection of what was then accepted practice in mainstream western contemporary media culture, a sign of the times at which the afrikan klickies were first introduced into the line, when awareness of the connotations this type of facial depiction brought was not as sensitively-approached, even as late as the early 80's especially in Europe (by which time most references to this type of facial depiction had disappeared in USA due to more fervent civil rights movements). At least 20-30 or so years have passed since that era, and I'm guessing that the fact that current production Afrikan klickies still retain this aesthetic is merely due to being a residual template of the toy's original design, and as the racial reference nowadays is somewhat dated, probably not many from this younger generation would be aware of the racial implications that this particular aesthetic once blatantly implied. In parts of Asia, particularly Japan, in Japanese cartoons (anime), characters of african descent are still depicted with such features.
I know Playmobil is a German toy, but I still find it suprising, if not offensive, that the toys still bare such dated appearance, especially since the toys are sold world wide, including countries like USA where awareness of such things should make this concern more relevant. It most likely escapes the censors, as I said, because the reference is very dated. I think if Playmobil were more aware of the connotations this face may imply, they might perhaps consider redesigning them, along the same lines that they do not wish to create Nazi toys so as not to be associated with the racially-sensitive stigma that history already bares upon contemporary Germany.
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Yes, maybe this is something that should be brought to their attention by the collector's club. i'm sure they wouldn't want to think the appearance of their toys might be offensive.
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The African Klickies look fine to me as they are . I remember in the early 80s when i first got my hnad on some of these , they were very sought after . I have bought about 60 african warriors as part of my egyptian/roman / african/ gaul theme as they all look fantastico
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Much ado about nothing if you ask me, and an over-sensitivity that is nowadays bordering on mental illness (hoping I haven't offended anyone by writing down the words 'mental' and 'illness'.
Next thing you'll be asking PM to do is remove the 'slanty' eyes on their Asian figures. I can understand *some* sensitivity towards racial issues: I am Maltese, after all - they used to call us wogs (and worse) in some parts of the world because of our swarthiness, so yeah, we did have to bear the brunt of racist taunts and suchlike in the distant (and not so distant) past. But too much PC is too much PC.
There's nothing wrong with those klickies ... not only as far as I'm concerned, but also objectively.
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I also want to add something else, but it's going to be the last thing (I have this issue very much at heart, both academically and also on a general level). Most of the time, the people most sensitive to such issues are the ones that in the past were responsible for whatever vile things happened to ethnic minorities, races and so on. The victims themselves are often much more relaxed about it (I, for one). But PM being a German company, you know ...
*sighs*
Sometimes what you don't say is almost as offensive as the things you DO say. Or do.
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I do agree with you that the whole PC movement goes way overboard these days. My main objection to the way these klickys look has nothing to do with vaudeville and racism, but more that I just don't like the way it looks. I think faces like the child klickys would be cuter.
And as far as the clothing, the African American people that I personally know and hang out with, including my best friend since high school, dress just like everyone else here in america, not like this lady:
http://store.playmobilusa.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-US-Site/en_US/Product-Show?pid=7980&cgid=Ds_Figuren
To me this family looks like a family of foreigners, who just moved from Africa. That is fine, and I want to have foreigners in my collection also. I only wish that in addition to these, they would also produce a few african American-looking klickys. That was all I was saying.
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I do agree with you that the whole PC movement goes way overboard these days. My main objection to the way these klickys look has nothing to do with vaudeville and racism, but more that I just don't like the way it looks. I think faces like the child klickys would be cuter.
And as far as the clothing, the African American people that I personally know and hang out with, including my best friend since high school, dress just like everyone else here in america, not like this lady:
http://store.playmobilusa.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-US-Site/en_US/Product-Show?pid=7980&cgid=Ds_Figuren
To me this family looks like a family of foreigners, who just moved from Africa. That is fine, and I want to have foreigners in my collection also. I only wish that in addition to these, they would also produce a few african American-looking klickys. That was all I was saying.
Is that any more colorful or florid than the matching sets of Caucasian, Hispanic, or Asian families though? I agree the clothing is pretty vile, but the Caucasian lady is certainly more outré than the Hispanic mother. I think we are reading more out of this this than there is in it. Playmobil put their modern figures in bright colorful clothes because that's what children react to most. Hence Fisher Priceyness abounds, much to our joint distaste. If you wanted to see a family dressed in an outrageously flamboyant style, btw, you used to have to look no further than an American tourist abroad. 8} The female American tourist was as much a stock figure of fun in decades past (from the 20s through to the 80s) as any Vaudeville blacked-up minstrel.
I think it's very difficult for any of us to really understand the degree of offense the Playmobil figures may cause unless we are ourselves black. If Geobra employ any black staff, and one hopes they do, then it is to be hoped that they have been surveyed and have not taken offense at the current facial features of the dark skinned adult klickies. If you can't do business without offending your own staff, then you're not a good Manager and shouldn't get voted for in polls.
One thing I would like to see is more variation in the Playmobil skin tones generally. We are becoming a more racially-integrated society worldwide with every passing day than we were thirty years ago, at least in First-World countries, and Playmobil does not depict a fraction of the wonderful variety of beautiful skin tones I see every day.
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Aren't we taking these matters too seriously? First the "i" word thread and now this one... Too much ugliness in the real world to bring it here too guys, let's just relax a bit!
I like African clickies faces, some of my favorites are African clikies. When I was a kid I had only one of them and I loved it to death!
I think Playmobil looks for stereotypes and sinthesis in their designs. Im not sure they try to mimick the vaudeville face, nevertheless, the vaudeville face is a stereotype.... why is that bad or offensive? I don't get it..... :-[
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Is that any more colorful or florid than the matching sets of Caucasian, Hispanic, or Asian families though? I agree the clothing is pretty vile, but the Caucasian lady is certainly more outré than the Hispanic mother.
Yes you are right about this. It was the style in combination with the hats that made me not like it. But they are easily removed. :)
I think Playmobil looks for stereotypes and sinthesis in their designs. Im not sure they try to mimick the vaudeville face, nevertheless, the vaudeville face is a stereotype.... why is that bad or offensive? I don't get it..... :-[
Ah, but you don't live in the US. everyone here makes a huge deal out of vaudeville faces as being very offensive, because the old time minstrel shows were very insulting and made fun of the way black people talk and dance. But sometimes people do take offense too easily, reading in motives that just aren't there.
Whatever the case, you are right; all this is way too serious and way too touchy to be discussing on this forum. We should probably drop it and move on. We're all friends here and that's all that matters. :high5:
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Yes you are right about this. It was the style in combination with the hats that made me not like it. But they are easily removed. :)
Ah, but you don't live in the US. everyone here makes a huge deal out of vaudeville faces as being very offensive, because the old time minstrel shows were very insulting and made fun of the way black people talk and dance. But sometimes people do take offense too easily, reading in motives that just aren't there. yeah, that's maybe why I don't completly understand it. It's cultural.... it is very different in my country.
Whatever the case, you are right; all this is way too serious and way too touchy to be discussing on this forum. We should probably drop it and move on. We're all friends here and that's all that matters. :high5:
;D ;D
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We're all friends here and that's all that matters. :high5:
Hi all....The reason I used the vaudeville description is, I remember vaudeville shows and it was/is
degrading...next, the AA figures were the only klickys with white "beady" eyes..when I saw the later AA
children without white dots in their eyes, I liked the children better. I think mom and pop should
look like their kids. ;D...well in the klicky world at least...
This topic did take a different tack than I thought it would, from a "what do you think?" question.
So..upward and onward...
Shalom,
Jimbo
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:)9
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The klickies look fine.Let's not make something out of nothing... ;)
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The reason I used the vaudeville description is, I remember vaudeville shows
You remember vaudeville shows? How old are you, anyway? ???
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You remember vaudeville shows? How old are you, anyway? ???
Heh- that's what I was wondering! ;D
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Allthis reference to the Vaudeville shows and all that dont you think some folks might find it on the edge of being offending simply by discussing it...??? In my opinion this conversation asking members if they know shows that were of a racing nature etc etc and the continuous referral to vaudeville and the entire subject of the klickies faces is very sensitive and I am surprised its on going, in my opinion of course, is that an appropriate subject for playmofriends , i dont think our african friends would find this thread all together harmless nor non offensive !
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Allthis reference to the Vaudeville shows and all that dont you think some folks might find it on the edge of being offending simply by discussing it...??? In my opinion this conversation asking members if they know shows that were of a racing nature etc etc and the continuous referral to vaudeville and the entire subject of the klickies faces is very sensitive and I am surprised its on going, in my opinion of course, is that an appropriate subject for playmofriends , i dont think our african friends would find this thread all together harmless nor non offensive !
FYI my multi-ethnic background includes African American. Regardless of intent, frankly speaking, I don't find the faces on these klickies very flattering at all. And yes, it is appropriate to discuss, with civility, subjects that pertain to being sensitive and considerate to our individual backgrounds and consideration for each other as Playmobil friends and fellow human beings.
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FYI my multi-ethnic background includes African American. Regardless of intent, frankly speaking, I don't find the faces on these klickies very flattering at all. And yes, it is appropriate to discuss, with civility, subjects that pertain to being sensitive and considerate to our individual backgrounds and consideration for each other as Playmobil friends and fellow human beings.
And I fully agree with you, I think though this conversation which is of a very serious nature when it is focussed on shows of vaudeville faces is off track when people are asking if people have seen suich shows which personally i think are not appropriate for that very reason you question the klickies looks. Therefore, i dont think on this subect its is ok to write a lot about such shows etc , political correctness being overvboard etc etc , this is what i was saying, for such an important issue the conversation needs to be very focussed and not go of track as i think it has a bit .. and that is what i was / am saying .. and i think also if people with african background are not comfortable with these klickies their voices shoudlbe heard by playmobil :)
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How many people are not liking the direction this topic is taking? It's when members are being defensive about a topic, it brings it to the attention of the moderators.
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Ok ... but where does it stop?
(I know I said I wouldn't contribute more posts to this thread, but here I am again ::))
I mean: let's take the Roman Arena, because there's a review of it in this very section. Why don't we ask for the Roman Arena to be banned, since it's the place where Christians were slaughtered in ancient times. Should I, as a practising Christian, be offended by the inclusion of wild animals in said playset, the same wild animals that would torture and eat Christians? Should I voice my concern? Should I ask for it to be banned?
I'm not saying it to take the p** you know, I'm just bringing forward a very valid example of something which we might take for granted but which at the end of the day represents persecution - by a state (Rome) - against a minority (early Christians). It's a bit like having a concentration camp playset, if you want to stretch things a bit.
I - as a non-black person, but as a Mediterranean type (not exactly Aryan, I am sure you will agree) do not find vaudeville characters offensive, but that's just me. What I do find offensive (even though I am 100% sure the member in question did not mean it that way), is statements like: 'I sincerely hope PM employs black people', however.
Why? Why cherrypick black people out of the whole human race? As token gratitude for being a race that was persecuted in the not so distant past? I have no problem with employing black people if they're great at doing their job, whether as janitor, or production line operator, or engineer all the way up to chairman ... but employing someone just because he's black is something that I find very offensive - like these govt boards where you have to have a woman or a disabled person included just because it's PC to do so.
Like I said, I am CERTAIN the poster in question did NOT mean it that way, but it is such an attitude that offends me the most, as a member not of this forum but of the whole human race.
I hope I don't come across as blunt, or as annoyed (I am quite happily munching on a hamburger right now), but, you know ...
(and yes, I do think we should discuss such issues every now and then. you can't discuss peg legs and ebay bargains ALL the time: we collect toys, and we like it ... but we're adults first of all.)
:) :) :)
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At this time I have locked this topic while it is under review. Please be patient while the moderating team investigates the PM's received about this subject.
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I really have to urge you all to reconsider this rule of our forum:
6. Posts that contain racial, ethnic, religious, sexist, sexual or sexual innuendo, or any other discriminatory or inflammatory content will be deleted without exception. Such posts do not show respect (see Item #1), and those who post them risk suspension from PlaymoFriends.
All of you have been very careful and polite so far, and your discussion has been more than considerate and mature and the moderating team thanks you for that. But to avoid an eventual conflict we have to end this conversation here!
Thank you all for your understanding.