PlaymoFriends
Creative => How-To => Topic started by: BlackPearl2006 on September 17, 2010, 09:24:42
-
****I’ll post pics soon, but I wanted to get the idea up first because I’ve been obsessing about modifying the perfect ship short of creating them from scratch much like member Jimbo’s ships*****
To all you interested in sailing your Playmo ships in rough waters,
Let's keep this thread going. I love how Playmo ships can actually float but still look good out of water when you don't have access to a pool.
They are designed to resemble what a ship would look like ABOVE the waterline so that when you play with them in the living room you can pretend the floor is the waterline.
Sadly, it is this feature that becomes their fatal flaw when trying to sail them in real waters (like a lake) which are far more active than a still bathtub. Because they lack a deep-delving hull, a keel, proper ballast weight/positioning, and suffer from unsealed portholes, windows, and hull joints, they are VERY vulnerable to taking on water and capsizing.
My goal is to find ways to make our ships more capable of sailing in rough waters WHILE still carrying a full crew and compliment, and accessories without capsizing or being blown traversely off course.
I have only experience with a couple style ships, so here is my input. Please add your ideas for these ships as well as other ships (including the schooners, the new 4290 ship, the cargo ship, the expedition ships, etc….).
-
3050 Style Ships:
I love the 3050 style ships for sailing; they seem most stable of all ship designs I've witnessed and/or read about that were sailed in waters outside of the bathtub. I think their main virtue is their rather flat and wide hull design weighted with a VERY heavy ballast. I have more than one 3050 style ship that I’ve modified with extended masts and full crews, and they seem to do well in the lake without capsizing easily.
It’s weak point is the stern: Because of the extra weight of aft castle/helm plus the raised stern (which angles upward out of the water, and up from the rest of the hull’s flat bottom, when floating in the water the ship tends to “drag” at the stern, bringing the captain’s uncovered windows very close to the waterline, making it susceptible to taking on water from any slight wave or whenever the boat bobs up and down.
To counter this, the ship’s ballast needs to be moved forward to redistribute the weight more evenly towards the bow. I tried this myself by simply unscrewing the ballast and just placing it forward (without re-securing it) just to test it. My results were positive. As hoped, the ship no longer leaned backwards at the stern, and maintained an even pitch all around.
As a preventative measure, take some clear plastic, cut to shape, and use weatherproof silicon seal to calk and glue the clear plastic from the inside of the captain’s windows to prevent water from coming in from the windows. This will also add more realism to the ship, especially if you either paint on some window frames or use styrene strips to create some.
-
3286 Ships
The 3286 Ships are by far the best looking ships (IMO) Playmobil has to offer. They are the most detailed, have bowed deck lines, high stern, and, unlike its 3050 style cousin, make good use of the below-deck space with the addition of a lower gun deck which accommodates starboard and portside batteries totaling 8 cannons which deploy through opening cannon ports on the side. This is everything one could hope for in a toy ship that can really float! Right?
Well, one thing is true: the 3286 ship can float. Check. The 3286 ship can accommodate a robust crew, cargo, supplies, sails, rigging, and a battery of no less than 8 cannons. Check.
However, it CANNOT do both at the same time! It can’t float AND accommodate a crew/accessories. It can only do one or the other, sadly.
The 3286 does not have a built-in ballast like the 3050 ship does. Instead, it comes with a detatchable ballast that clicks onto the bottom of the ship ONLY when the ship is to be floated in the water. The ballast itself extends a few inches below the ship’s hull, presumably to help counter any top end weight. However, it is either not heavy enough, or not low enough. In either case, the ballast is NOT sufficient to counter the top-heavy nature of the ship when the ship is fully loaded with crew and cannons, and the ship will capsize because of this instability—even in the still water of a bathtub.
The only time I was able to get the 3286 ship to stay afloat in rough waters was to completely remove all crew (save for the captain at the helm), all cargo, all cannons, and the entire gun deck and captain’s quarters from the ship. By removing everything, the ship floated very high above the water (made the ship very shallow on the draft). I wish the ship floated this way when fully loaded, but it won’t.
The ballast itself doesn’t weigh very much when compared to the ballast from the 3050 style ships. My thoughts were to either lower the ballast, or increase the ballast’s weight. Since the latter is easier to test, I tried adding weight first by tying various weights to the existing ballast until I could get the ship to stabilize. It got to the point where any amount of weight I added was still not enough to compensate for a full crew and compliment of 8 cannons. I also wanted the weight to compensate for crew members who were up high in the tops and on the ratlines. I mean, what kind of ship would it be if it were only stable as long as its crew did NOT climb up high to adjust sails and rigging?
Additionally, I wanted the ballast to be able to compensate for auxiliary crew, cargo, and an extra compliment of 6 additional cannons on the main deck.
SO, I took the ballast from a 3050 ship and just for test purposes tied it to the existing 3286 ballast. With the ship fully loaded with all deck, crew, and cannons, I put her in the bathtub.
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/BlackPearl2006_album/DSCI0980.jpg)
Success! The ship was finally STABLE. However, the added weight raised the water line very close to the bottom of the gunports. So while she can finally float without tipping over, there is the inevitable danger that ANY small wave will cause the ports to take on water and sink her.
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/BlackPearl2006_album/DSCI0974.jpg)
Not to mention, now that the water line is much higher, the ship’s profile above the waterline no longer looks right; it looks like the bottom half of the ship is “missing.”
To compensate for the the cannon port problem of being too close to the waterline, the ports must be plugged somehow. The easiest solution to this is to close them off. However, this defeats the whole purpose of wanting to make the ship stable AND keep it’s cannons. So we have some options: Faux cannons. As in, keep the cannon port hatches in an open position, but essentially plug the ports with recessed seals (to create the appearance of depth) and faux cannon TIPS sticking out. This would mean that in reality there aren’t 8 real cannons onboard, replaced with faux cannon tips to only give the appearance that it has cannons. This would give you the look of a fully-armed ship while preventing the ship from taking on water.
However, if you’re like me, you want realism, and it will bug you that there aren’t REALLY any cannons there. PLUS, you will no longer have the ability to draw the cannons and close the hatches for peaceful times when the ship is not at war.
So here is my other idea: clear windows on the cannon ports that have a custom-cut hole that will allow the cannons to still stick out through the holes, but the surrounding “empty” space around the cannon tips will be effectively sealed and prevent water from coming in even if the cannon port does happen to delve below the waterline when the ship rolls.
However, even if this works, it still doesn’t change the fact that the ship’s profile is compromised, and still bugs me that the ports are right at water level. This was the downfall of the Vasa, afterall. Not realistic at all. It bugs me.
SO……my next idea is to actually give the ship a REAL hull line BELOW the water line. This will add more displacement for the overall ship and theoretically help raise the ship higher (and the gun ports higher above the waterline), but it will also help compensate for the ship’s roll, and also cover up the ugly ballast hanging below the ship (because I would incorporate the ballast as part of the new lower hull).
Ideally, somehow, this lower hull might be detatchable (much like the ballast) so the ship can still be played with on the floor….unless, depending on the aesthetics of the new lower hull, it is made flat-bottomed and can still look good attached out of water.
This new lower hull would also give me the opportunity to add a true keel to the ship, which will not only help compensate for roll (and help prevent capsizing), but also keep the ship on a truer course rather than be easily blown off course by lateral winds so easily.
I’m awaiting arrival of my second 3286 ship hull from ebay. I have seen MacGuyver’s extended hulls using two ships joined together to increase the ship’s length, but I am toying with the idea of using the lower hull to somehow add to the ship’s DEPTH.
You're thought's would be appreciated!
-
About the only way to control course is remote (radio or otherwise) control. Speed can only be controlled to a certain degree, and only with a motor of some sort.
But to stability, there is hope: Two pieces of Styrofoam (or other floating material tied together across the keel will help the stability (it’s not perfect, and you’ll have to play with the size until you get the floating characteristics you want). Think of them like an upside-down horse’s saddlebag.Well, one thing is true: the 3286 ship can float. Check. The 3286 ship can accommodate a robust crew, cargo, supplies, sails, rigging, and a battery of no less than 8 cannons. Check. However, it CANNOT do both at the same time! It can’t float AND accommodate a crew/accessories. It can only do one or the other, sadly.
I dispute that, AND I’ll get you video of mine (EAGLE) underway if you want. :D I left EAGLE in a pool overnight once (just forgot to bring her in) and the next day she was free drifting nicely. While not AS rough as an open pond (or the ocean), the pool’s surface was still subject to the wind and the water filtration pump, which sends the water back in at about 1GPM (creating a bit of a stream effect just under the water’s surface for a few feet).
-
About the only way to control course is remote (radio or otherwise) control. Speed can only be controlled to a certain degree, and only with a motor of some sort.
But to stability, there is hope: Two pieces of Styrofoam (or other floating material tied together across the keel will help the stability (it’s not perfect, and you’ll have to play with the size until you get the floating characteristics you want). Think of them like an upside-down horse’s saddlebag.I dispute that, AND I’ll get you video of mine (EAGLE) underway if you want. :D I left EAGLE in a pool overnight once (just forgot to bring her in) and the next day she was free drifting nicely. While not AS rough as an open pond (or the ocean), the pool’s surface was still subject to the wind and the water filtration pump, which sends the water back in at about 1GPM (creating a bit of a stream effect just under the water’s surface for a few feet).
Hmmmm..... I would love to see your video! As far as my 3286, if the water is very very still I can get her to just barely stay upright when fully loaded, but I still cannot have any crew members up high in the ratlines or the tops, else she falls over.
Another note: the stock sails are rather heavy, so if anyone plans to make more than one tier of sails (like the new 4290) take the added weight to the tops into consideration as well. My custom pearl has 13 sails total, and to compensate (and make them more realistic) I used a very lightweight synthetic fabric with a high thread count.
So does your EAGLE have the styrofoam mods you mention? And how close to the waterline do your cannon ports come?
-
I've not played with the 4290 in open waters as of yet, but I did find this excellent video that seems to suggest she handles beautifully in the wind, even with the ship tilting to the side. Luckily she has no cannon ports to worry about flooding like the 3286. If I could get my 3286 to sail like this while fully loaded, I will be a happy sailer :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNroKEGAAJc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNroKEGAAJc&feature=related)
Oh, and this also shows the schooner in action as well!
-
Hmmmm..... I would love to see your video!
I will make it ASAP (and send a PM) :D.So does your EAGLE have the styrofoam mods you mention? And how close to the waterline do your cannon ports come?
No, so far I only REALLY need them for Emma B Ryan (http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=3523.0) (she capsizes every cruise due to extensive modifications, much more than those shown).
-
These tips are worth their weight in gold for all the future "Pirates" who will visit this thread ;)
Thank you !
Karim :)
-
Ahoy, BlackPearl2006 :wave:
I just picked up the TRU purple pirate ship. Tomorrow I will lay it on a horizontal belt sander and remove, ( I hope),
a portion of the lower hull. Then fabricate a pine hull bottom with a steel keel.
I will keep y'all posted....BTW the pirates in the ship are kinda cool.....
Turn the sander on me lads, and mind the finger tips!
Jimbo
-
Ahoy, BlackPearl2006 :wave:
I just picked up the TRU purple pirate ship. Tomorrow I will lay it on a horizontal belt sander and remove, ( I hope),
a portion of the lower hull. Then fabricate a pine hull bottom with a steel keel.
I will keep y'all posted....BTW the pirates in the ship are kinda cool.....
Turn the sander on me lads, and mind the finger tips!
Jimbo
Do you mean the ghost pirate ship? Why are you moding the bottom? Same reason? (give it a true lower hull, add more ballast with your steel keel for stability and aquadynamics?) I can't see what you can do with that ship! I once thought the 4290 was a joke until someone simply repainted it and now I love it. I never took the ghost ship seriously at all either, as it looks really cartoony, has weird masts and very odd hull....... so I am VERY excited to see what you can do with it!
-
Do you mean the ghost pirate ship? Why are you moding the bottom? Same reason?
Yup, it is the ghost pirate ship. I wanted to test the idea on a less expensive boat!
And I wanted the cool pirate with the long coat ;D.
I'm heading to the sander right now......
Jimbo
-
(give it a true lower hull, add more ballast with your steel keel for stability and aquadynamics?)
The word is “Hydrodynamics.”
Jimbo, let us know ASAP how this went… My own Ghost Ship has a tendancy to capsize before I’m ready for her to. :lol:
-
The word is “Hydrodynamics.”
Jimbo, let us know ASAP how this went… My own Ghost Ship has a tendancy to capsize before I’m ready for her to. :lol:
I'm still trying to figure out why the new line of Playmo pirates looks so fisher-pricey. I thought 4290 was so kiddish, but the ghost pirate ship is even moreso, stock. Is this for the U.S. market only? I ask because I also collect Japanese mecha toys, and I notice the U.S. versions (even of the same exact moulds) are somewhat lacking and "dumbed down" for not only U.S. safety standards, but also U.S. age-appropriate complexity ratings (in other words, they lower the safety hazzard and complexity levels both to appeal to a younger age so that the product can be sold to a wider market, not just older kids or collectors. In a way, such practices almost seem to say to me that marketers (both domestic and abroad) seem to think American kids are too dumb to "get it." It really annoys me! If the previous generation could have ships with real rope rigging and realistic metal bells and tiny little parts, why should the current generation be dumbed down? (plus everyone's always ready to start a law-suit). Sad sign of the times. Sorry to be off topic. My mind's on a roll today.
-
Jimbo, let us know ASAP how this went… My own Ghost Ship has a tendancy to capsize before I’m ready for her to. :lol:
Hull is trimmed off at the "water line" (about 1/4 of an inch)..
I am going to cut the wooden lower hull right now!
Our camera is not working, but hope to get some pics. soon.
Jimbo
-
I will make it ASAP (and send a PM) :D.No, so far I only REALLY need them for Emma B Ryan (http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=3523.0) (she capsizes every cruise due to extensive modifications, much more than those shown).
Hey Andy! Still waiting for your video, man!
-
Hull is trimmed off at the "water line" (about 1/4 of an inch)..
I am going to cut the wooden lower hull right now!
Our camera is not working, but hope to get some pics. soon.
Jimbo
Ironic that I cannot get more work-in-progress pics of my pearl due to computer problems, still waiting on Andy for his vid, and Jimbo's camera isn't working......
Leads me to this much needed internet acronym:
TTIUWP! (This Thread is Useless Without Pics!)
We so need pics, ladies and gents!
-
Ah crud, ya…
Ok, the pool is broken own for winter, and the kidy pool is useless for thes purposes. I did try to get the vdeo, but over the night she did capsize (it rained that night, and she got swamped). Let me try and get another pool to video her all night long…
-
Looking forward to seeing the end results of the different approaches. My only experience was with the 3174, Red Corsair. It was a gusty day and the rigging lines were taut and in deep water she overturned straight away. In shallow water so she could turn turtle, she was OK. I never had the chance to try again with slack in the rigging.
It's ironic that the 3050/3750 is the most seaworthy because of it's wide beam and heavy ballast when it cannot take the optional motor.
I found the 3750 was my favourite of the Red Corsair, the schooner, the black corsair and the 3940. I built a brand new 3750 a few years ago from parts from UK DS and still have an unfinished conversion of a 3750 to take four cannons on deck rather than two.
-
Looking forward to seeing the end results of the different approaches. My only experience was with the 3174, Red Corsair. It was a gusty day and the rigging lines were taut and in deep water she overturned straight away. In shallow water so she could turn turtle, she was OK. I never had the chance to try again with slack in the rigging.
It's ironic that the 3050/3750 is the most seaworthy because of it's wide beam and heavy ballast when it cannot take the optional motor.
I found the 3750 was my favourite of the Red Corsair, the schooner, the black corsair and the 3940. I built a brand new 3750 a few years ago from parts from UK DS and still have an unfinished conversion of a 3750 to take four cannons on deck rather than two.
That is odd that the most stable ship 3750 doesn't take the motor. I was looking at the "keel" of the ship, however, and it wouldn't be hard to cut some notches in there to get it to accept the motor. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.
When you built yours to take on 4 cannons on deck, what did you do to it exactly? I added 6 cannons on deck on my 3940 by cutting gun port notches and adding pegs for them to snap on to. I added 4 cannons on my 3750, but I haven't cut any notches or added any pegs on them; they're just hot-glued in place for now.
-
We so need pics, ladies and gents!
I should be able to post some pics this evening. I have the lower hull shaped, and the
steel keel/ballast installed. I might toss it into the water Sunday!
-
O.K. sailors of the Playmo sea...here are some work in progress pics.....the pics show cutting
the Playmobil hull flat, removing about 1/4 inch. Then cutting the lower, (wooden) hull from
clear poplar. Then fitting the lower hull and cutting the bottom hull piece from 1/2 inch birch
plywood and providing a keel or ballast slot.
-
More.....securing the wooden hull to the Playmobil hull using four attach points through the deck
and lower aft portion of the Playmo hull....
-
O.K... Next the lower hull plate and keel (ballast) is glued to the lower hull, and sanded and shaped to conform to the Playmobil hull. Then comes the float test!....
To be continued.....
-
Beautiful work Jimbo! (that's a 4444 ghostship? I thought you were doing it on the ghost galleon ooops)
What do you use to sculpt the hull curves? Router?
And what do you use for sealant between the wood and the plastic hull?
So the additional hull, is solid wood? not hollowed out?
And what metal is the ballast/keel made from? (for that matter, what are playmobil ballasts made from?)
I would like try something like this with my 3286 if your 4444 mod works!
Thanks for pics! more more!
-
Epic!
Cant wait to see more. :)
-
Thanks for the update.;)
-
Ahoy y'all.
BlackPearl2006, the hull was shaped for the most part with a belt/disc sander after the basic shape was cut
with a band saw.
I will use a good 2 part epoxy for the final assembly.
I hollowed out the hold portion of the 4444/5901, but more weight will be removed to lighten things up a bit.
The water line now is at the top of the wood with a small crew aboard.....(way too much ballast, me thinks.)
The keel/ballast is a piece of 1 inch cold rolled steel, 1/8 inch thick. I want to lighten it up a little so tomorrow
I will make a keel from 3/4 inch by 1/8 inch steel strap and see if that helps. The boat is fairley stable without
a keel...but it must have one. I also removed the fixed rudder and incorporated a rudder shaft that works off
of the Playmo tiller. Not sure what kind of metal Playmobil uses for ballast, but it probably isn't lead.
I am sure that this concept will work much better on a larger ship because of the larger water displacement.
Thanks for the kind remarks and encouragement everyone!
Jimbo
-
That is odd that the most stable ship 3750 doesn't take the motor. I was looking at the "keel" of the ship, however, and it wouldn't be hard to cut some notches in there to get it to accept the motor. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.
When you built yours to take on 4 cannons on deck, what did you do to it exactly? I added 6 cannons on deck on my 3940 by cutting gun port notches and adding pegs for them to snap on to. I added 4 cannons on my 3750, but I haven't cut any notches or added any pegs on them; they're just hot-glued in place for now.
I'll post some pics this week.
-
Hi all.. :wave:
These are the latest pictures of the 4444/5901 hull modification. The new rudder and the bowsprit
addition. The bowsprit is about 5 1/2 inches long and pins to the bow with a brass rod.
She is very steady and with 5 or 6 klickys, the water line is kept at the upper end of the black painted
portion of the hull.
It is now ready for the rig of my choice.
Best regards,
Jimbo
-
Freakin awesome Jimbo! I love it! :love:
I wonder if you'd mod my hull on commission? I wish I had a shoppe/shoppe tools to do such major mods.
I too have modded my 5901. Got rid of the stock mast alltogether, replacing it with a taller mast with crowes nest and added a bowsprit and rigging.
Have yet to cut out the sails, so for now here it is with paper template sails I use for measurement. Seems so simple, bunch of sticks and string, but it is quite a bit of detail work as you well know:
The most tedious part were the ratlines/shrouds. I thought about rigging it with real deadeyes, but I got lazy and left the deadeyes out. I may add them back in later, but just as facade deadeyes, versus true-rigged ones. I like your bowsprit mounting. Better than mine. I actually drilled into the hull so the bowsprit pegs in. All the rigging is fully functional, including the standing rigging for support on both masts, and adjustable rigging for the jibbs, square sail, and the spanker (which pivots left and right).
-
Hi all.. :wave:
These are the latest pictures of the 4444/5901 hull modification. The new rudder and the bowsprit
addition. The bowsprit is about 5 1/2 inches long and pins to the bow with a brass rod.
She is very steady and with 5 or 6 klickys, the water line is kept at the upper end of the black painted
portion of the hull.
It is now ready for the rig of my choice.
Best regards,
Jimbo
btw, any better close-up detail on how your working rudder works? I love it!
-
btw, any better close-up detail on how your working rudder works? I love it!
Hi BlackPearl2006 :wave:...I will try to get a good photo of the rudder, or make a drawing of the "system".
Also, your sail, and rigging on your 5901 are double cool! The "real" rat lines are excellent as well.
Mind if I try some of your ideas? I really like the double jib sails. :)9
Thanks for your kind remarks, they are very encouraging!
Best regards,
Jimbo
-
Hi BlackPearl2006 :wave:...I will try to get a good photo of the rudder, or make a drawing of the "system".
Also, your sail, and rigging on your 5901 are double cool! The "real" rat lines are excellent as well.
Mind if I try some of your ideas? I really like the double jib sails. :)9
Thanks for your kind remarks, they are very encouraging!
Best regards,
Jimbo
lol, they're not really "my" ideas, I mean, there's only so much you can do with one mast. The lateen sail just didn't "do it" for me, plus the bowsprit (as yours does) pretty much demands at least one jib. And even if it just had one square sail, the mast would have to be braced by shrouds. A boat this small most likely wouldn't have ratlines necessarily, but I went ahead and added them. Tedious.
I'm pretty sure a boat this small probably would only have one jibb, but 2 looks cooler, plus the way I justify it is dividing the jibb into two gives the sailor better options for controlled speed (he can just fly one depending on how slow or fast he wants to go. With only a square the ship would have a hard time tacking against the wind, so the jibbs make sense. I added the spanker just cuz I thought it looked cool.
Dunno how realistic this setup would be in real life, assuming it was designed for easy handling by just one sailor. I'm guessing the tiller would be held steady by a line while the sailor worked the sails, or, he could drop anchor and only hoist the anchor once the rigging was in place. Otherwise I think he might need a sailing mate or two to help with that many sails. By himself, though, I think he could manage the square sail and maybe one jibb.
Can't wait to see what your ship looks like fully rigged. And yeah, it'd be cool to see more detail of your tiller/rudder setup. :) Awesome craftsmanship, Jimbo :)
-
btw, any better close-up detail on how your working rudder works? I love it!
Hi Blackpearl,
I finally got around to taking some pics of the rudder assembly.
I drilled a hole thru the tiller shaft to fit the brass rod I used for
the rudder shaft. The sleeve thru the stern is the correct size
brass tubing to precisely fit over the rudder shaft.
The brass tubing and rods are available in hobby shops or some
hardware stores.
Steady as she goes,
Jimbo
-
Great work, Jimbo.
Did you glue the brass rod into place?
-
Did you glue the brass rod into place?
Hi Ali Baba, I used epoxy.
Thanks for the encouraging word!
Jimbo
-
Thanks, Jimbo!
-
Your rudder actually turns…
I must confess, I am deeply impressed…
-
looks really awesome, your rudder. I forgot to ask, does your boat no longer accept the optional playmobil underwater motor now that the bottom hull is modified? and are u planning on installing a remote servo for the rudder?
-
I forgot to ask, does your boat no longer accept the optional playmobil underwater motor now that the bottom hull is modified? and are u planning on installing a remote servo for the rudder?
The keel needs a bit of modifying to accept the underwater motor. The space for an RC
system for the keel is mighty small. I will keep the tiller klicky powered. ;D