PlaymoFriends
General => News => Topic started by: Bill Blackhurst on April 08, 2009, 16:43:33
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That's always a thing I wonder about: why do they keep part numbers secret? I mean: if I would know part numbers of certain pieces (e.g. hair pieces) I would order them and with this PM would make additional business and money ... why should anybody follow a strategy to make less money (are e.g. hair pieces luxury pieces which stand for exlusiveness?)
I totally agree with you on this issue Little Jo! The only reason I can think of is, they don't want to become a major part supplier because it would be a hit, & miss venture for them. On the other hand, there are many collectors that Playmobil over looks, & ignores that would be willing to make this venture a profitable one for them, & it would be a win win situation for everyone involved. I would recommend for Playmobil to make a system for the customizer audience so we would be able to order anything from the Playmobil line in any quantity, as long as we would be willing to prepay in a nonrefundable way for their efforts, & as long as they produce what we are asking them to produce. Also there would need to be patience receiving the ordered items due to setting up to make an order, but should not take more than 1 month for them to accomplish fulfilling it. Plus, there would need to be a strick way of reducing production errors due to wrong information like we are always seeing in DS orders known as wrong parts!
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Main reason would be (i think) playmobil isn't generating enough money to supply us collectors with hair pieces, collars etc.....
DS is a service not a shop where collectors can order what they like.
A brand like playmobil must have a service like DS to give customers the impression that if they loose an item or miss a part from a set just purchased it can be replaced.
I believe that was the intention when they started the service.
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Main reason would be (i think) playmobil isn't generating enough money to supply us collectors with hair pieces, collars etc.....
DS is a service not a shop where collectors can order what they like.
A brand like playmobil must have a service like DS to give customers the impression that if they loose an item or miss a part from a set just purchased it can be replaced.
I believe that was the intention when they started the service.
That maybe true to some point, but I feel that Playmobil had better get on the ball! Case & point, a very large US car manufacturer who will remain nameless, refused to listen to die hard collector groups wanting OEM replacement parts for off frame muscle car era restorations. The manufacturer stated the demand for these out of production parts would not justify the companies expense to fill the need! Soon there were small independent companies catering to this budding customer group that were restoring a family heir loom, or adolescent dream car, & it grew to unforeseen levels! These small companies continually honed their skills, product availability, & quality that resulted in a billion dollar consumer market, & profit center! Eventually,the original car manufacturer realized what a profitable market they had blown off, & started scrambling trying to caught up to the "little guys" :lol:! The reason I told this story is as Little Jo mentioned, in todays economy, manufacturers need to capitalize in anyway possible to survive. It has been stated in other forums, that Playmobil does not even recognize the collector market of their products, & they had better start doing so! Their toys are considered high priced by parental standards, & market demands are going to decrease in this financial crisis considerably. They need to start recognizing the collector market if they are wanting to stay in the game. Playmobil already has the retired molds in storage for future projects, & the material to manufacture the replacement parts are already in their inventory, so why not use them to produce additional retired parts for the collectors market? Maybe they don't need any additional money?! Just a thought, because they sure don't seem to be listening to us!!
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I'm not sure it's quite as clear a case as you suggest, Bill. At the moment, Playmobil run DS as a customer service and I'd be surprised if what they get from DS in revenue covers the costs. I should think that DS costs just get lumped under a general head such as marketing or customer support. But if DS becomes directed at a particular sector of the market such as the collector, then I would guess that it would have its full share of costs allocated to it - overheads, power, taxes, salaries, ICT, purchase of stock bins to store bits in and so on. And then these would have to be covered, plus a profit margin, from DS sales and that I think would mean higher prices. Two things strike me about DS pricing. The first is the number of items that are priced at 10p or 15p by UK DS. That strikes me as a bit of "off the cuff" pricing, a round figure which may or may not cover costs. The second thing is the reasonable price of other items. For example, the new rescue light complete with batteries for £4.35, a 3880 body interior for £2.10. (Actually, I'm sure it's possible to build, say, a 3880 fire engine from DS parts for less than the price of a new one! I think best left alone is the answer.
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I'm not sure it's quite as clear a case as you suggest, Bill. At the moment, Playmobil run DS as a customer service and I'd be surprised if what they get from DS in revenue covers the costs. I should think that DS costs just get lumped under a general head such as marketing or customer support. But if DS becomes directed at a particular sector of the market such as the collector, then I would guess that it would have its full share of costs allocated to it - overheads, power, taxes, salaries, ICT, purchase of stock bins to store bits in and so on. And then these would have to be covered, plus a profit margin, from DS sales and that I think would mean higher prices. Two things strike me about DS pricing. The first is the number of items that are priced at 10p or 15p by UK DS. That strikes me as a bit of "off the cuff" pricing, a round figure which may or may not cover costs. The second thing is the reasonable price of other items. For example, the new rescue light complete with batteries for £4.35, a 3880 body interior for £2.10. (Actually, I'm sure it's possible to build, say, a 3880 fire engine from DS parts for less than the price of a new one! I think best left alone is the answer.
I respect your opinion regarding this topic Gordon! I'm afraid that I disagree about the future of Playmobil, & if it will survive these financial declining times. Their toys as I have mentioned are generally too expensive for families to purchase any credible quantities because of today's economy. Maybe a family will splurge, & buy a couple of Playmo toys for their children, but not like in the past. Many additional brick & mortor toy stores will stop carrying Playmobil altogether because of PM's strict franchise terms along with people not spending money! In turn Playmobil will show a severe decrease in global product sales. The only commendable source of sales will be adults like ourselves, the collectors who also want to customize, & or complete our collections. We all have to admit, as myself, I will purchase several of the upcoming fire department series vehicles to add to my collection, & others will be collecting other themes ;)! That is why I am bringing to light that they need to cater more to the collectors market to survive! We want to customize armies, legions, firefighters, & vehicles, & we want discontinued, & a broader range of parts to be available. It will be unfortunate for Playmobil if they don't start realizing we are a customer source to be acknowledged, & they need to adapt to this corner of their product market to survive. They have the resources to make this happen, & before they start feeling the financial crisis, they had better start looking to expand into another customer field. Just my humble opinon :-[!
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These financial declining times will see better days, at least i hope so!
playmobils turnover was 450 million euros last year, how much do you think collectors like us have contributed in that?
I'll bet you it won't be all that much.
And like playmofire suggested i think DS is only covering its costs noting more, maybe even less.
Sorry to dissapoint you Bill, the future of playmobil isn't with customisers or collectors, it's with the large amount of parents who buy playmobil for their kids all over Germany, Europe, The US etc... In that order.
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Bill, just like with your example of the car industry why not just start the same process with Playmobil. It would actually be a lot easier now due to on-line sales . It is an idea i have toyed with and have always wondered about ( copyrights and all ) when ever i work on one of my classic cars . I have my OEM parts and then a handful of OEM-like parts, so somebody has figured out a way to produce similar parts while not infringing on the laws .
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Sorry to dissapoint you Bill, the future of playmobil isn't with customisers or collectors, it's with the large amount of parents who buy playmobil for their kids all over Germany, Europe, The US etc... In that order.
I agree, Rob. To go down the collector route, Bill, is full of dangers. Corgi used to be a mass-producer of diecast vehicles. They saw the collector market as a way to increase profits and, I believe, to gain a loyal market. The cost of their models shot up to £30 plus and the cheap diecasts became far fewer. However, two problems appeared. The first was Corgi missing release deadlines but the deadly one was Corgi wrongly estimating the market for certain models with the result that there was unsold stock. This eventually hit the market at cut prices, much to the annoyance of collectors who had paid the full price. Corgi eventually started limiting production runs but this led to other problems as stock quickly sold out or some models so many collectors were disappointed, while other buyers bought up lots of a model and then resold them at a profit, sometimes a big profit. And at the same time, some models, even with the limited numbers, were having to be sold cut price to get rid of them. Finally, Corgi began a system of only producing if there was a minimum number of orders, and this further annoyed collectors who, having said "Yes" to a model found months later that it was not going to be produced.
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Bill, just like with your example of the car industry why not just start the same process with Playmobil. It would actually be a lot easier now due to on-line sales . It is an idea i have toyed with and have always wondered about ( copyrights and all ) when ever i work on one of my classic cars . I have my OEM parts and then a handful of OEM-like parts, so somebody has figured out a way to produce similar parts while not infringing on the laws .
I think the problem with Ras's cunning plan is intellectual rights. The look-alike parts are copies of "standard" engineering items, brake pads, camshafts for example. The copies of PM parts would be copies of something which had been designed by PM.
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These financial declining times will see better days, at least i hope so!
playmobils turnover was 450 million euros last year, how much do you think collectors like us have contributed in that?
I'll bet you it won't be all that much.
And like playmofire suggested i think DS is only covering its costs noting more, maybe even less.
Sorry to dissapoint you Bill, the future of playmobil isn't with customisers or collectors, it's with the large amount of parents who buy playmobil for their kids all over Germany, Europe, The US etc... In that order.
I never said said that collectors are the only people that buy Playmobil!!! I am saying that if Playmobil wants to capitalize on another market they should utilize what they already have access to, & if done correctly they can make a profit doing it!
Well Rob, I hope you're right! But I'm a realist, & with that comes forseeing a bleak future! It will take years for people to get through this financial disaster! True Europe may buy more Playmobil than the US, & other countries, but AS I STATED BEFORE, Playmobil toys are too expensive for parents to buy as they did in the past no matter where they live!!!! In this country people are starting to live like refugees in tent cities because they are in dire straits. Maybe in your part of the world things are not that severe yet, but here, the last thing on peoples minds is Playmobil when they are scrambling to feed their families, loosing their homes, killing people then themselves due to job loses, & the list keeps getting bigger! We may need to have another poll asking how many peoples financial situation will allow them to purchase at least $100.00 or more in Playmobil this year for their children alone, not themselves?
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... We may need to have another poll asking how many peoples financial situation will allow them to purchase at least $100.00 or more in Playmobil this year for their children alone, not themselves? ...
Surely, that would mean that the impact of us collectors on Geobra would deminsish and would mean that we're as a lot are even less interesting to them.
Besides, I see a big difference between OEM producing spare parts for old models and Geobra doing so: the amount of money involved! I mean - spending €15,- on a car parts doesn't seem unreasonable to me; €15,- on a Geobra collar does. To make up the difference Geobra would have to sell quite a lot to make ends really meet.
And consider this: I see "Parkfence" sets go for over $200,-; but how many are really being sold for that price? I guess less then 20 a year? And if Geobra would re-release the set could they sell it to us for $100,-? I doubt it.
If the would re-release it for, let's say $50,- a set, would they sell enough to make a return (not even mentioning a profit)? I doubt that as well. But then again; I am definitly NOT an expert.
And then there's this as well: yes, they do still have the old moulds; but moulds only last a certain amount of uses and then they have to be remade. For that, they use master-moulds, which also last a certain amount of uses then they have to be re-made. This alone has a price tag of over € 200,000.- . I doubt they would see a return on that for items produced solely for the collectors ...
All in all, I doubt there's really a profit for Geobra in the collectorsmarket ...
I do hope though they will provide some sort of Fanclub as I do believe we can provide something else then pure profit for the company: a fanbase.
Bogro
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Surely, that would mean that the impact of us collectors on Geobra would deminsish and would mean that we're as a lot are even less interesting to them.
Besides, I see a big difference between OEM producing spare parts for old models and Geobra doing so: the amount of money involved! I mean - spending €15,- on a car parts doesn't seem unreasonable to me; €15,- on a Geobra collar does. To make up the difference Geobra would have to sell quite a lot to make ends really meet.
And consider this: I see "Parkfence" sets go for over $200,-; but how many are really being sold for that price? I guess less then 20 a year? And if Geobra would re-release the set could they sell it to us for $100,-? I doubt it.
If the would re-release it for, let's say $50,- a set, would they sell enough to make a return (not even mentioning a profit)? I doubt that as well. But then again; I am definitly NOT an expert.
And then there's this as well: yes, they do still have the old moulds; but moulds only last a certain amount of uses and then they have to be remade. For that, they use master-moulds, which also last a certain amount of uses then they have to be re-made. This alone has a price tag of over € 200,000.- . I doubt they would see a return on that for items produced solely for the collectors ...
All in all, I doubt there's really a profit for Geobra in the collectorsmarket ...
I do hope though they will provide some sort of Fanclub as I do believe we can provide something else then pure profit for the company: a fanbase.
Bogro
I will finally have to agree with you. It was just an idea, but since the support of an idea is not popular, Playmobil will continue to do as they are already in the process of doing, & maybe they will survive despite the decrease of product sales. I know from my own personal present financial situation, that my collecting will decrease significantly, & eventually will totally stop. Maybe a new wave of collectors will continue to support Playmobil, if not, they may disappear in the dust of financial ruin that is destroying so many other corporations, & believe me when I say no one is immune to this current problem. You may find you have some money if you're lucky, & when you go to your favorite brick & mortar toy shop you find them having a going out of business sale! Eventually, its my opinion that the entire Playmobil product line will only be found on their on line website with only a few independent vender's here. Then the out of sight out of mind issue takes effect, & they disappear altogether. I personally have seen approximately 8 chain, & independent toy stores disappear from my area within the 11 years of collecting Playmobil. It is not considered a popular toy in this country, but there is a following of die hard customers still living here, but our sources will continue to disappear in time. Off the top of my head, here are the names of some of the vender's that quit; Salmagundy Toy Shop, Hammond's x3, Zanie Brainie, The Learning Toy Store, Duck Duck Goose, The Toy Jungle, The Toy Doll shop, or the store still exists, but no longer carries the Playmobil line in my area, not to mention on line toy distributors like ToyMine. If a toy store still has the Playmobil line usually their prices are so high you can't bring yourself to purchase anything, because you are educated about what items prices should actually be! For example one of the few local toy stores here has the 3181 fire department SUV for $55.00, what the......are they thinking!? This is why Playmobil has started a bubble pack design, & made in China line for TRU, Target, Kmart, etc., because they know that their market vender's supplying the entire Playmobil themes are rapidly shrinking, & with their franchise rules, which limits existing independent vender's from being competitive price wise! The thoughts I have conveyed on this topic thread are only my own, & from the comments of others will only be a dream, but remember, "IT'S ONLY A TOY" what the hell were we thinking! I wish to all only the very best....Playmbil!
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I do see your point, Bill.
However, the story I see here is rather different. As far as I can tell, the brick and mortar toyshops seem to hold their own and aren't disappearing. Most of them do carry Playmobil; even if they don't have everything. Besides that; the "traditional" toyshop are still abundant here. Even the larger villages have one; cities have even more.
A number of store-chains carry the product as well.
As for on-line stores: the number of them seems to be increasing that carry partially, mainly or even only Playmobil.
This is all because Playmobil is one of the main brands of toys here ...
What I am trying to say: it isn't all gloom. Their base is still solid, even though they don't seem to get a grip on the USA...
Bogro
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The Adult Fans of LEGO (AFOL's) here in the US ran into this problem with its premise that "we make toys for kids". I have been attending LEGO conventions put on by fans/collectors since 2003. And I am going to another one in June. There are now 4 conventions per year here in the US.
Going to these events and talking to the LEGO reps who come over from Denmark to give us a 'heads up' on LEGO and get feedback is remarkable. As a result of these 'talks' they still advertize that they make LEGO for kids. BUT, they also have given us Pick-a-Brick where bins of elements are available for the custom builder. They also have a section at LEGO.com where we can buy the Brick in bulk.
So they get us in different areas, the sets and parts. As was pointed out to them, when I take 'Junior' into the store to buy LEGO sets, how do they know if the set is for him or me. We havn't got everything we want, but the company has made an effort for the collector/customizer.
This is not intended to push LEGO above Playmobil, but just to point out that there is one company willing to meet the adult collector - builder.
There are three to 400 hundred participants at each of these cons. which are held in Chicago, Oregon, California, and Washington, D.C. and another group is trying to start a 5th con in Ohio.
I would love to attend a Playmobil con here in the US.
The US DS here needs to be updated. There should be a menu to see and order parts online. This way one could see what parts are there, the price, number in stock and order without spending time asking for parts and waiting for the rep to look up each part and then let you know they are out and then go to the next item on your list and repeat this all over. This system would spark more business and save Playmobil costly phone time. The online store should carry both sets and parts. I would be willing to bet that there are parts at the different Ds's that are setting in bins gathering dust because nobody knows about about and dosen't think to order.
Well, anyway that is my 2¢ worth.
-- Donmobil
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I must say, Donmobil, your response made me think ... what's the difference between Lego and Playmobil?
Somehow Lego seems to be willing to produce specifically for the fan and Geobra seems to be unwilling to do so ... why?
Perhaps there are more Lego-fans as there are Playmoholics?
Since there seems to be much more official Lego-events as there are Playmo-events I guess that's the case and therefore the Lego-fans produce much more income to Lego as the Playmoholics do to Geobra. But that's just a guess. A wild guess.
Besides, on the German DS-site there seems to be a section to do so- even though it isn't complete:
http://www.playmobil.de/on/demandware.store/Sites-DE-Site/de_DE/Search-Show?cgid=SPARE_PARTS (http://www.playmobil.de/on/demandware.store/Sites-DE-Site/de_DE/Search-Show?cgid=SPARE_PARTS)
Perhaps they are moving towards us, somehow. Who knows. I sure hope so.
Bogro
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Maybe if Playmobil fans in Europe and the US wrote to Playmobil asking for an online parts buying system it might get them thinking.
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Lego fans are just way better organised the playmobil fans. For example each country has a LUG (a Lego User Group), larger countries often have two or more. The most influencial LUG have an Ambassedor with LEGO, who are elected each year. These ambassedors give sugestions and ideas to the people at TLC. The new train system came to life twith the help of adult fans.
(http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/bmarreel/Other/10194Emerald-Night/emerald_night10194.jpg).
These adult oriented sets are expensive but are always in the top 20 sellers on the Lego website.
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Lego fans are just way better organised the playmobil fans. For example each country has a LUG (a Lego User Group), larger countries often have two or more. The most influencial LUG have an Ambassedor with LEGO, who are elected each year. These ambassedors give sugestions and ideas to the people at TLC. The new train system came to life twith the help of adult fans.
These adult oriented sets are expensive but are always in the top 20 sellers on the Lego website.
mmm - this sounds to me as if there are many, many more adult Lego - fans as there are adult Playmobil-fans ...
I don't think a Playmobil User Group (PUG) would have enough members to warrant it....
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. . . I don't think a Playmobil User Group (PUG) would have enough members to warrant it....
It's hard work being a "PUG"
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It's hard work being a "PUG"
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Yea', in many ways:
1. geobra isn't that flexible a company
2. it demands much more craftiness to ellaborate an (actually) interesting playmobil set ::) (to me, as I understand .. perhaps they shouldn't count this #2 item: I'm a writer ;D ; writers like people to make characters, rather than bricks with yellow faces :hmm: )
(Well, I AM a playmobil (huge) fan ... :P )
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I have to respectfully disagree with some members on this board. I think Playmobil is grossly underestimating the devotion and number of adult collectors. While their numbers may not be huge, I bet they spend a fair amount of money on items. I have a hard time believing parents and children are buying Playmobil on ebay or through the parts department.
As far as independent toy stores, they've virtually disappeared from my area of the U.S. Even in very affluent communities, they barely exist. Most here buy cheap toys made in China from big box stores. $105 plus sales tax for a big Playmobil set is a lot of money to families with children these days.
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disagreements create discussion and respectfull disagreements make wonderfull discussions :love:
Anyway, when I said in my original post that the brick-and-mortar shops are holding their own, I should have added `where I live`. Here in the Netherlands, in the coastal region people still buy quality toys for the kids and rather large sets as well.
And I agree Justindo, that we collectors do buy a fair amount - I see that each time on my bankaccount :-[ - question is though: is that a substantial amount against their regular sales? I just don't know. I do know that if it is then Geobra would be very foolish not to invest in the collectors.
But if we don't then it would commercially foolish to do so. Unless we're rather close to the break-even point.
But I just don't know. I bet that no one does.
But that's just my 0.02 worth.
Bogro
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It gives me great "pain and consternation" to have to admit that Gordon might be correct ... :wow:
I must say, Donmobil, your response made me think ... what's the difference between Lego and Playmobil?
Somehow Lego seems to be willing to produce specifically for the fan and Geobra seems to be unwilling to do so ... why?
Perhaps there are more Lego-fans as there are Playmoholics?
Since there seems to be much more official Lego-events as there are Playmo-events I guess that's the case and therefore the Lego-fans produce much more income to Lego as the Playmoholics do to Geobra. But that's just a guess. A wild guess.
Besides, on the German DS-site there seems to be a section to do so- even though it isn't complete:
http://www.playmobil.de/on/demandware.store/Sites-DE-Site/de_DE/Search-Show?cgid=SPARE_PARTS (http://www.playmobil.de/on/demandware.store/Sites-DE-Site/de_DE/Search-Show?cgid=SPARE_PARTS)
Perhaps they are moving towards us, somehow. Who knows. I sure hope so.
Bogro
Donmobil and Bogro seem to have provided us with some very good thoughts about the difference between Playmobil and Lego. However, Gordon probably hit the nail on the head when he said, "Playmobil is NOT a construction toy!"
Because Lego is a construction toy, it might be safe to say that most Lego fans enjoy building things out of Lego. Maybe at Lego conventions, Lego fans share their various creations that they've made using their Lego bricks. This would no doubt be great advertising for Lego, because that's how Lego was designed to be used.
What would Playmobil fans do at a Playmobil convention? Woud they show all the various sets that they have hoarded over the years? Would they show their "customized" Playmobil? Would they set up gigantic scenes that no one can afford? Is this good advertising for Playmobil?
Hmmm ... If the above descriptions are even close to the truth, it might be easy to see why Lego seems to be more interested in their fans.
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It gives me great "pain and consternation" to have to admit that Gordon might be correct ... :wow:
When Richard agrees with me, though he's right to do so, it always worries me! But the construction aspect of Lego is the key. If you're wanting to build a replica of, say, your own town, then you will want to buy thousands of red bricks and it is profitable for someone to set up the structure to sell you them. That's what Lego does. But though you get the occasional case of someone wanting to buy thousands of Playmobil figures, they're the exception and exceptions are rarely profitable.
What would Playmobil fans do at a Playmobil convention? Would they show their "customized" Playmobil? Would they set up gigantic scenes that no one can afford? Is this good advertising for Playmobil?
Yes and Yes. I've just been looking at the latest German convention photos on klickywelt, and that's exactly what they do.
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It gives me great "pain and consternation" to have to admit that Gordon might be correct ... :wow:
Donmobil and Bogro seem to have provided us with some very good thoughts about the difference between Playmobil and Lego. However, Gordon probably hit the nail on the head when he said, "Playmobil is NOT a construction toy!"
:o Playmobil is a construction toy, but it is not merely a construction toy.
Because Lego is a construction toy, it might be safe to say that most Lego fans enjoy building things out of Lego. Maybe at Lego conventions, Lego fans share their various creations that they've made using their Lego bricks. This would no doubt be great advertising for Lego, because that's how Lego was designed to be used.
What would Playmobil fans do at a Playmobil convention? Woud they show all the various sets that they have hoarded over the years? Would they show their "customized" Playmobil? Would they set up gigantic scenes that no one can afford? Is this good advertising for Playmobil?
The LEGO people do exactly the same! But one example:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2966469465_dfdfb24da6.jpg?v=0)
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What would Playmobil fans do at a Playmobil convention? Woud they show all the various sets that they have hoarded over the years? Would they show their "customized" Playmobil? Would they set up gigantic scenes that no one can afford? Is this good advertising for Playmobil?
well, I suggest to have a look at the pics of the Wolfsburg Convention that took place just the weekend before ...
lots of hoarded sets :yup: - lots of customized playmobil :D - lots of "gigantic" scenes 8} (as well as some small ones) - and lots of good advertising for playmobil (they even sent some official visitors - for the very first time)
btw:
like Indianna already mentioned: playmobil IS a construction toy - but it is also a play-toy - there have been lots of "constructions" at the WOB Convention ... though the aspect of "real" customizing might be more suitable for adults then for kids
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[/quote] Donmobil and Bogro seem to have provided us with some very good thoughts about the difference between Playmobil and Lego. However, Gordon probably hit the nail on the head when he said, "Playmobil is NOT a construction toy!"
What would Playmobil fans do at a Playmobil convention? Woud they show all the various sets that they have hoarded over the years? Would they show their "customized" Playmobil? Would they set up gigantic scenes that no one can afford? Is this good advertising for Playmobil?[/quote]
This is what we do at the LEGO cons. It is good to see sets one was thinking about buying but could not decide. To see the many custom sets as at Wolfsburg really sparks the mind and encourages people to buy multiple sets of Playmobil to do the large dioramas or games. Sometimes the biggest part of the con is to meet the people who make the products we love to collect and play with. I also find that going to one of these and meeting others who like the same things, whether it be LEGO or Playmobil is super. There are quite a few here on the list I would like to meet.
Good advertizement, of course it is. When the public is let in on Saturday and Sunday, they are amazed at what is out there or what can be done. I have seen this at the Train shows our club attends. Our last train layout was 14' x 22.5', 4' to 5' deep in a large 'u' shape. It is like the pic's I have seen from Wolfsburg. Maybe a couple of events by Playmobil in the US would allow the public to be aware of Playmobil. But trust me, cons are worth it.
-- Donmobil
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I would like to notice that THE LEGO COMPANY wasn't always as flexible as it is now. It is largely due to the fact that they where losing money in the early 2000 that they reformed a bit. One man is especially to thank for the openness of TLC view his story here :
http://blip.tv/file/697965
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I agree, I have met Jake in the past when he worked for LEGO, he came to many of the cons. He is also a trainhead, really envolved with LEGO trains.
-- Donmobil
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Very interesting video, thank you for sharing this with us.
Gepetto
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Fascinating video, thanks for the link Highland.
It's interesting to see what Lego did about ten years ago to turn themselves around, and a little scary to think that, from the evidence I have seen, Playmobil aren't doing any of this, maybe aren't even aware that these possibilities exist.
First very pertinent fact in there, the Lego adult collector community makes up 5% of the customer base in numbers, but on average buys 80 times as much $ worth of product - so the actual ratio of kidbuy:adultbuy is 95:400, lets call that 100:400 for simplicity, or 1:4, so the adult collector market is buying 4 times as much Lego as the remaining 95%. Is there any reason to suppose that the adult Playmobil collecting market is any different?
Another interesting fact - they designed a $300 Star Wars set aimed at the adult collector, and the company though they were insane, but they sold like hot cakes now there are $500 sets; these big sets become a father-son building experience, re-igniting family play time in the days of video games and the box-in-the-corner-babysitter.
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Fascinating video, thanks for the link Highland.
It's interesting to see what Lego did about ten years ago to turn themselves around, and a little scary to think that, from the evidence I have seen, Playmobil aren't doing any of this, maybe aren't even aware that these possibilities exist.
I'm sure they are aware of them, and maybe considering what they should do as regards similar Playmobil developments.
First very pertinent fact in there, the Lego adult collector community makes up 5% of the customer base in numbers, but on average buys 80 times as much $ worth of product - so the actual ratio of kidbuy:adultbuy is 95:400, lets call that 100:400 for simplicity, or 1:4, so the adult collector market is buying 4 times as much Lego as the remaining 95%. Is there any reason to suppose that the adult Playmobil collecting market is any different?
I'd be surprised if the figures were the same for Playmobil (just hunch). Playmobil is more a toy to play with and less a construction system and toy in one.
Another interesting fact - they designed a $300 Star Wars set aimed at the adult collector, and the company though they were insane, but they sold like hot cakes now there are $500 sets; these big sets become a father-son building experience, re-igniting family play time in the days of video games and the box-in-the-corner-babysitter.
I think you've highlighted the difference between the two products, Martin, with the words "a father and son building experience" (and maybe you have to include mothers and daughters nowadays - it would be interesting to know how far Lego is a boys only product). Just as Meccano had many adult followers, Lego has for the same reason. We're back to at least some degree to the "Is Playmobil a construction toy?" question.
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:clap: Wow! I just watched the entire Jake McKee video - many many many thanks to highlandcattle for providing the link!
We've had so many vibrant discussions over the years about the differences and similarities between Playmobil and LEGO. Many of us are fans of both toys - I know I am! :) Near the beginning of the video, Jake makes a point which, to me, crystallizes the ultimate truth about both toys: they are "creative mediums." That is the key point! LEGO may be more of a construction toy, but people love those minifigs. Playmobil may traditionally be about the klickies, but there are so many construction possibilities. Both toy worlds get people thinking "outside the box" (literally!) There are certainly people in the world who can set up a LEGO or Playmobil set and think "Oh, that's nice," and then put it away and never want to have another (or they just don't like the "messiness" of all those tiny pieces.) We true fans, however, set it up and think "Oh, if I just had one more of this piece or a different color of that thing or 100 of these items then I would be able to . . . " It is the creative aspect of both toys that really gets the juices flowing.
So many things that Jake mentioned about LEGO are also true, though perhaps on a smaller scale, for Playmobil. We have many fan discussion boards in several languages, collectobil, playmodb, etc., all of which have been developed without much, if any, assistance from Geobra. We have all of the amazing displays created by the fan community - there are too many to even begin to list them here. Do they inspire people to buy Playmobil? YES! I cannot begin to tell you how many sets I have purchased over the years because of the photos I have seen here at Playmofriends and elsewhere. Even though I still don't call myself a "collector" I have amassed an embarrassing amount of unopened boxes, not to mention the boxes and boxes of used pieces that I acquired in order to get some Steck balconies, or more Steck castle walls, or silver dishes, etc.
I truly believe that Playmobil could take the same approach as LEGO did and it would be very successful. Playmobil seems to suffer from the sort of corporate culture that Jake talks about where people are worried about stuff that doesn't really matter very much, such as the way that Geobra won't allow people to post instruction plans online even though there is no logical reason to prohibit this (after all, if somebody in China is going to knock off a Playmobil set they are going to go buy one and then they will have a hard copy of the instructions, right?) We need to find a way to get Jake and Playmobil together! :yup:
Thanks, Gordon, for bringing the "mothers and daughters" into the conversation! Let's remember the mother/son and dad/daughter combos, too! 8-)
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Indeed very interesting video (btw. thanks for the link) ... and also the referred Cluetrain manifest (http://www.cluetrain.com/).
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No problem guys, maybe we should send the video to Playmobil HQ ;D. My former boss who is now a manager at PLM Benelux, was not allowed inside the LEGO stand at Nurnberg 08 whilst he was still working for our company.(But the rumour got around that he was going to PLM). The division between the two companies is really big, I think
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. . . The division between the two companies is really big, I think
Meaning between LEGO and Playmobil? They copy each others theme ideas, why not copy some good business ideas, too?!?! :yup:
Is PLM a Playmobil affiliate? Do you work for Playmobil highlandcattle? 8-)
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No problem guys, maybe we should send the video to Playmobil HQ ;D.
Exactly what I thought ;)
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No wonder LEGO is more popular with a varied customer group! They now listen to their customer population! It took them looking out side of the box, but now they are stronger than ever, capitalizing on a customer base that has caught the collecting fever like us! Playmobil is stuck in the time that LEGO finally broke away from, & like I have said over & over, we as collectors may only be like the 5% of the LEGO market was to LEGO, but we buy multiple sets, & spend way more on our collections than most parents, & their kids even dream of! Playmobil needs to hire this man for his ideas to stay in business for the future, because Playmobil needs to start thinking outside of the box to survive! Thank you for this enlightening video link highlandcattle!
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I really enjoyed the Jake McGee film. I met him a few times when he worked for LEGO. Our club was one of the 14 LEGO Train Clubs that he spoke of. and to add to that 5%, what does the 5% add up to in sales? 1,000 USD, 5K, 1 million USD? More? And as I said to the CEO of LEGO in 2005, "How you know when I take a kid into a store to buy LEGO, is that set for him/her or me?" And he said that he did not know.
So are we, the adult collectors of Playmobil, 5%, or more. As was said earlier we, as collectors, players, gamers, purchase more sets as a group than the kids the product it is made for. Also, it is not the child who is buying Playmobil, it is in most cases the adults who are buying it for their kids.
I started buying LEGO when my kids fussed at me when I was playing with their LEGO and was finally told to 'buy my own'. That was about 30 years ago and my collection is larger than both of theirs. And by the way, both my sons are now in their mid 30's.
I just started buying Playmobil about 5 years ago and became a real collector only about the last 3.5 of those years. I like both for their difference, and have fun with both.
As a perfect example of what is needed, Playmobil makes great Medieval buildings. But to purchase them is to build a ghost town. Remember when Playmobil made sets with townspeople and furniture to occupy the houses? Where is the Market stands with food, the Baker, the Inn with tables with folks sitting on benches at tables having a cold one? It seems the Golden Age of the Medieval town is behind us.
-- Anyway, it is my 2¢ worth... Donmobil
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As a perfect example of what is needed, Playmobil makes great Medieval buildings. But to purchase them is to build a ghost town. Remember when Playmobil made sets with townspeople and furniture to occupy the houses? Where is the Market stands with food, the Baker, the Inn with tables with folks sitting on benches at tables having a cold one? It seems the Golden Age of the Medieval town is behind us.
Pardon my ignorance, but I just started collecting. Playmobil used to have sets with townspeople and furniture to occupy the houses?? You used to be able to easily assemble a Playmo Medieval town?? I'm really disappointed I missed all that! Excuse me. I think I'm going to throw a hissyfit: :hissyfit: I just ordered the new Collector's book a couple of days ago. I can hardly wait for it to arrive. (Market stands with food! A Baker! :hissyfit:)
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Go to Collectobil and click on their 'catalog'. There should be around 12 to 15 sets in their 'Old Houses' section. Or go to PlaymobilDB and look up sets:
3440 Tailor's House
3441 Medieval Bakery
3442 Blacksmith
3444 City Guard Room
3455 Medieval Pottery
7409 Old House Extension Elements
There are more Houses, some with furniture some not, some even had klickies in the sets to go with the Townspeople set. But well worth looking at. There was also a couple of sets:
3292 Townspeople
3293 Farmers
and others like set 3567 Musician with Dancing Bear.
Sets like these made a town or city come to life. and yes, I too started collecting Playmobil when most of these sets were discontinued or I was not aware of them.
-- Donmobil
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Playmobil used to have sets with townspeople and furniture to occupy the houses?? You used to be able to easily assemble a Playmo Medieval town??
Yes!
Here's a picture from a 1978 Playmobil catalog, KM ...
see attachment
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BEWARE!! If you go to Collectobil and look at those old sets it will break your heart and could eventually lead you to .....Ebay >:D (or so I have been told 0)).
Gepetto
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BEWARE!! If you go to Collectobil and look at those old sets it will break your heart and could eventually lead you to .....Ebay >:D (or so I have been told 0)).
Gepetto
I am brought to tears. :'( These sets were wonderful! You're right, my heart is broken! :'(
How could Playmobil have discontinued these sets and not have replaced them with anything comparable? I am sad. Nowadays, we have fantasy knights and System-X castles (or castles that don't require much assembly at all!) and no peasants or townspeople! I bought a couple of medieval people from Indianna's eBay auction a little while ago. They are great! I need more! More! More!
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sigh ... those were they days ... :'(
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sigh ... those were they days ... :'(
Actually, this brings up a question I have had in the back of my mind as a new collector: Has Playmobil gone down in quality over the years? Why do you believe so? Or why do you believe not? Assuming it has (for the sake of argument), when was the Golden Age of Playmo? Was the change gradual or sudden (perhaps with a change in management)?
I have been only collecting since December, so I have no point of reference, but I would like to hear from longtime collectors.
(Hm. I'm taking this discussion off-topic. Feel free to move this to a new topic if anyone feels it's appropriate.)
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There have been changes in Playmobil quality, but I wouldn't say that in general the quality has gone down. The most obvious change (I would say the only change that I've noticed) in it's construction has been in the last 8 years or so as a result of health and safety legislation banning an additive to plastic to make it pliable. This change has, strangely enough, shown itself in a more pliable plastic and is especially noticeable in larger items such as vehicle bodies. For example, the 3880 fire engine and the equipment vehicle in the 4082 THW set (see here http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=2610.0share the same body but were made some 10 years apart. To disassemble the 3880 needs screwdrivers to release the body from the chassis but the THW version, while still having the body and chassis securely fixed together, can be separated) simply by manual pressure (although a fair amount of this). Overall, though, the quality of the product ha stayed the same.
In other areas such as printing of detail, the quality of Playmobil has increased over the years as more and more sophisticated techniques of printing have been adopted by Playmobil allowing greater and finer detail. The uniforms of the THW personnel are a good example. Playmobil quality has also improved in their ability to produce not just three but four and even five colour castings in a single operation. They are the only company with this technology.
There have been some cases of poor quality, usually associated with Playmobil's brief flirtation with production in China. I know, too, there have been cases of poor printing on some Roman figures and problems with cloaks staying on some figures (e.g. the nun), but I think these have probably been due to problems in developing new techniques and have not led to an overall fall in quality.
As regards a "golden age of Playmobil", this will vary from collector to collector not so much on a basis of quality as on items offered and "nature" or "personality". I know Bogro and many others would say a golden age was the early years of Playmobil with its extensive mediaeval range of buildings and figures. Others would also think of the early years as a golden age because Playmobil brought with it a new innocence, charm and imagination to plastic figures. I would pick the years 1997 to about 2006 in the fire engine range, the 3880 having all the character of a fire engine and just enough detail to leave room for the imagination (and if you wished a bit of custom work) to add the rest. The new fire engines are much more detailed but, for me, lack the character the 3880 has. I think others may agree with me that the increasing detailing of Playmobil is a major change over the years, and maybe one which, though it has given greater and more accurate detail, has possibly taken something away in terms of charm and character.
Just a few thoughts.
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I will agree with you Gordon, on the fire engine work horse series being the 3880, & 5716 series! There was a lot of character built into them that ignited my obsession with Playmobil, but my experience with the early 3526 fire engines proves a time when the details were also good, but the toys themselves were very fragile, & even delicate. The 3880 series changed the fragile into a more durable reliable toy that earned its place in toy boxes around the world, and lived to be sent on to other assignments later! I'm a little reserved in regards to the new 4821 series fire engines due to appear in the future, because I will miss the roll up shutter doors of the old 3880, & 5716 series, even the 3879, & 3182 ladder trucks had those realistic doors! That option alone gave those fire trucks the realism that proved worthy of collector status. The new style only looks like they roll up, but they don't, a design that will be truly missed by collectors.
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I am brought to tears. :'( These sets were wonderful! You're right, my heart is broken! :'(
How could Playmobil have discontinued these sets and not have replaced them with anything comparable? I am sad. Nowadays, we have fantasy knights and System-X castles (or castles that don't require much assembly at all!) and no peasants or townspeople! I bought a couple of medieval people from Indianna's eBay auction a little while ago. They are great! I need more! More! More!
:wave: Hi KM! I wondered if that was you!
I agree with you that the medieval sets are (were) wonderful. Those are the ones that really got me going on Playmobil about 12 years ago when my kids were young. Don't despair, though: there is still a lot of Steck around if you are patient. Besides ebay, try craigslist, yard sales (especially in the "nice" neighborhoods ;) ) thrift stores, etc. Even on ebay, the prices for MISB Steck sets are often no more expensive than their original retail price (a 3666 large castle originally had a MSRP of around $200.00)
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:wave: Hi KM! I wondered if that was you!
I agree with you that the medieval sets are (were) wonderful. Those are the ones that really got me going on Playmobil about 12 years ago when my kids were young. Don't despair, though: there is still a lot of Steck around if you are patient. Besides ebay, try craigslist, yard sales (especially in the "nice" neighborhoods ;) ) thrift stores, etc. Even on ebay, the prices for MISB Steck sets are often no more expensive than their original retail price (a 3666 large castle originally had a MSRP of around $200.00)
Yep. That was me, allright. Thanks for the advice about other sources. I will continue the quest...
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Yep. That was me, alright. Thanks for the advice about other sources. I will continue the quest...
Ahhhh .... "The Quest" ... ;D
Not too many things better that a good quest, KM ... ;)
So, go back, way back to the early days of the Playmobil System.
Almost every Steck medieval construction set included a beautiful brochure (see attachments). The brochure showed how the different Steck System sets could be combined to create new buildings an/or medieval villages and hamlets.
KM, if have not yet seen one of these brochures, my advice would be to never look at one until you have actually have acquired some of these Steck System sets. It would be too cruel to subject yourself to such wonder without your being able to have the sets in your possession. Not only that, it's a bit unseemly for a grown man like you to drool ... :lol:
see attachments
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Thanks for the sage advice, Richard, and for the attachments.
Such beauty. Such elegance. So many things to buy.
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Agh, but the inn was the real masterpiece I think.
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For some interesting mediaeval stuff, query "playmobil ritter" on eBay and then for location select European Union. An example, six chrome knights currently going for just over 3 euro (£2.65).
For buildings, try "playmobil fachwerk. There's bakery and a potter and more, but pricey.
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For some interesting mediaeval stuff, query "playmobil ritter" on eBay and then for location select European Union. An example, six chrome knights currently going for just over 3 euro (£2.65).
For buildings, try "playmobil fachwerk. There's bakery and a potter and more, but pricey.
He tempts me! He tempts me! Get thee behind me, thou tempter! I cannot live by bread and pottery alone...
Oh, what am I to do? So many things to buy, but not enough money to buy them.
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He tempts me! He tempts me! Get thee behind me, thou tempter! I cannot live by bread and pottery alone...
Oh, what am I to do? So many things to buy, but not enough money to buy them.
There's also a smithy and others.
Do you have a wife and children? Sell them as slaves and use the money on eBay. ;D
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Do you have a wife and children? Sell them as slaves and use the money on eBay. ;D
Don't listen to him, KM ... :no:
I heard of a Playmobil collector who did that very thing. The next day the buyer returned the collector's wife and demanded a refund. Can you imagine what life would be like for you if you got your wife back after you had sold her into slavery? ... :(o):
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Don't listen to him, KM ... :no:
I heard of a Playmobil collector who did that very thing. The next day the buyer returned the collector's wife and demanded a refund. Can you imagine what life would be like for you if you got your wife back after you had sold her into slavery? ... :(o):
That is a great story! I'm going to have to file that in my memory for possible later use.
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Coming back to the quality-question.
I think it all depends on how you define "quality".
If you mean "production"-quality, then IMHO there isn't really much change, besides some sets produced in China.
In my experience only twice I had bought a set with a production error; once in the early eighties and once a year or so ago. So, in my own experience, there hasn't really been a change.
If it comes to the quality of themes, I guess that's a matter of taste. Fact is that lately the details on the klickies and items are increasing. But I am not sure that that is quality. I think you can just as easily make a point that too much detail is killing part of the playability.
Personally, I think that in general the production-quality is more or less the same as it always has been. Although some "bad apples" have been there as well. All the other points are more or less a question of taste. But then again; that's my own 0.02 cents worth ...
... As regards a "golden age of Playmobil", this will vary from collector to collector not so much on a basis of quality as on items offered and "nature" or "personality". I know Bogro and many others would say a golden age was the early years of Playmobil with its extensive mediaeval range of buildings and figures. ...
I wouldn't dare saying that that was the golden age; but it definitly was my Golden age of Playmobil ;D
But more because that was also the period I loved to play with it as a child and had many, many a happy adventure with them ... (a lot of them on the high seas as well ;) )
Bogro