PlaymoFriends
General => News => Topic started by: Rasputin on November 07, 2008, 19:51:26
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I recently purchased the Crusaders and with the coming of Christmas had an inquiry to a subject . I do not wish to talk about religion or its merits but seeing as Playmobil is marketed as an "Educational" toy i started to wonder how educational . The sets that i am aware of that represent the Christianity theory are Santa's, Crusaders, a Nun, Friar Tuck, a church, nativity scene and plenty of Christian crosses to boot . The second largest religion would be Islam and third is Hinduism . What has Playmobil produced to help me educate my children on the almost 2 billion Muslim's ? I recently received a Lego catalog and was intrigued by their Tag Mahal . Will Playmobil produce a Mosque now that they educated us on the Christian Church ? We are getting a little taste of the " Divine Kingship " theory with the introduction of the Egyptians but how about modern forms of different Religions ? Just wondering what kind of "education" we are talking about ?
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Just to make myself clear - I do not want to talk about Religion just Playmobils examples of it to educate the youth .
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Hi Rasputin
I think you're seeing things that aren't really there.
Santa has nothing to do with Christianity. As far as I know there isn't a single letter in the bible anywhere about him - Santa Claus is about getting presents. pure and simple.
Crusaders are just another sort of knight; easily recognisable for everyone.
No Robin Hood without a Friar Tuck.
No fairy-tale wedding without a church; that's all.
And a lot of Germans and Dutch have nativity scene's in their house at Christmas. it's part of the seasonal decoration.
"Educational" in this sense doesn't mean that it's meant to teach arithmatics, geography or subjects like that but it's meant for social-emotional development of a child. In other words: role-play.
I mean - divine kingship in the Egyptians ??? You can use it for almost everything ...
In the end; if you want to understand what the developers and designers of Playmobil are about; go to Nurnberg and Zirndorf and look around. See what they see and read what they read.
You'll understand...
Geobra isn't a very large international company. It is a local company that sells world-wide.
That's all.
Bogro
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I think you are right Bogro, I would not try to look too deep into this. Vampires at halloween! Fairies in the woods! Elves running around the woods in their underwear with cannons! Opportunities to play and interact in real worlds and otherwise, socialize and fantasize.
Gepetto
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Yes but half (or more?) of the world is not represented in their spiritual beliefs and i would like to educate through play . It would only take a few specials like they did with the nun or monk .
with these and more out there i only see Playmobil represent one on the list of 9.
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9419/imgcol32904enva0.png) (http://imageshack.us)
If for any reason a Moderator wants to edit or delete this query, please do not hesitate or ask ;)
I still am just wondering IF Playmobil has ever represented any other views like Lego with the Tag Mahal ? its rather a simple question
And Borgo , thank you, i pride myself on the imagination i have :-*
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What a trip, Raz!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
1. You can't (all right, you can, but you shouldn't and, if you shall, what's the reason??) compare Lego orientation with Playmobil.
2. I disagree. There's a lot of Celtic "paganism" in the fairies collections ... Mixed with medieval stuff. It's only (openly) a German toy, that's all ... I don't think their goal is to be worldwide educational. I think their goal is to be educational for German people. (And whoever wishes to buy it :wave: ) They aren't obliged to represent every existing feature of human culture.
You may be right, in some aspect, but you're expecting too much from them, according to what I've been knowing and hearing, last six months (since I came back to playmoworld, through collecting, as an adult).
That's what I think.
Gus
:blackhair:
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There's a lot of Celtic "paganism" in the fairies collections ... Mixed with medieval stuff.That's what I think.
Gus
:blackhair:
That is interesting i never thought of the fairies like that but now that you mention it ??? thanks for the input .
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:yup: a very interesting topic, raputin.
0) at least "my group", the agnostic ant atheists (16% of the world's population) is very well represented.
by the way, countbogro - can you tell us what playmobil designers in nurnberg and zirndorf see and read (this would save us a trip to germany)?
i would really like to know what intelectual atmosphere surrounds them.
some of us (and i am one) have the feeling that playmobil designers or decisors tend to live "closed" in their very narrowminded worlds.
:hmm: can this be true countbogro?
please let us know.
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... by the way, countbogro - can you tell us what playmobil designers in nurnberg and zirndorf see and read (this would save us a trip to germany)?
i would really like to know what intelectual atmosphere surrounds them. ...
I started to look around on the web for images of the area where Zirndorf is located. But then suddenly it dawned on me. I don't have to - you all know it. Just look to the sets Playmobil has produced. (Specifically the modern sets) that is the looks of Zirndorf and surroundings.
The type of buildings, vehicles and people on the street are just like that.
... some of us (and i am one) have the feeling that playmobil designers or decisors tend to live "closed" in their very narrowminded worlds.
:hmm: can this be true countbogro? ...
Can this be true ? Of coarse it can be. But I wouldn't use those words. IMHO Gustavo is right. Geobra and it's designers are Germans who design for the German market and sell to Germany. And if anyone else wants to buy it too then that's great; but that's not the focus.
As you look to the historical sets; it has more in common with popular views of the themes then those of Historical (pure) accuracy. You only have to look at the vikings to know what I mean (they did not have horned helmets although those have become rather fixed the way we imagine the rampaging vikings to be). Although there seems to be a awefull lot of detail there that's just right (for instance; the chair in the Pyramid is exactly like the one found in King Tut's grave).
I wouldn't say it's a closed narrowminded world. I think it's a German childsview of the world and it's history.
After all; it is meant for History classes nor for World Religion classes. It's meant as a toy. Pure and simple.
And as for Lego - if it really would do something to represent world religion/ or views. Why did they produce the Taj Mahal (a mausoleum and definitly not a representative building) and not a Mosque or a synagogue.
I think they produced it as it's a world famous building.
... please let us know ...
I wish I could let you know :-[ But I can only give you my opinion ;D. If you want to know - then you'd have to ask Geobra.
But that's just my own 0.02 worth.
Bogro
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This is such a fascinating topic and one which we have touched upon before. I think that Bogro provided the essential point:
. . . It's meant as a toy. Pure and simple. . .
The Playmobil line is a commercial success because children love to play with it. It is "educational" because it allows children to use their imaginations to make their own stories in open-ended play situations, not because it is an accurate rendering of the real world. Rather, it suggests the real world (and fantasy, too) and provides an initial context for play. As we all know so well, children (and us so-called grown-ups) often take that play experience far beyond the basic contexts of "fairy tale" or "knights" or "modern" or "western" and have some wonderful experiences - anything from mixing up the categories (elves in the old west? why not?) to using Playmobil to re-tell favorite stories like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. Then there are the talented folks who create customs that fill in Playmobil's blank spots.
There are some especially lucky children whose parents not only get down on the floor and play with them, but also take the trouble to make sure that besides having fun play experiences, their children will learn about the real world, too, maybe even WHILE they are playing with Playmobil (Rasputin's boys, for example, are very fortunate in this way.)
From a purely educational point of view, it would be impossible for Playmobil to represent every religious and/or ethnic group and culture throughout history. For those of us who care about such things, we have plenty of oportunity to fill in the blanks during play. If the kids are playing with the western sets, the discussion could range from the great number of different First Nation/American Indian tribes and their geographic locations and customs all the way to talking about Wounded Knee. If it's Christmas time, then the challenge can be to use Playmobil elements and customs to create other religious celebrations. The possibilities are literally infinite, and that is the real beauty of Playmobil. :)
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i don´t think playmobil should be "ordered" to have a more up-to-date-with-the-real-world production.
the way i see it, they are free to do whatever they feel like.
... but this doesn't mean i should approve everything they are doing.
... and sometimes i really hate it.
i don't like the lack of female figures, the names and facial designs that they sometimes use in clickies with darker skin colors, etc..
treating these subjects as a problem derived from a "childish" "rural" "german" way of seeing things doesn't work for me.
playmobil is sold all over the world and i don't think staying "childish" can be considered as a very smart way to deal with this market.
i sometimes tend to be over-agressive with these matters and i know that sometimes that is not fair - i don't know any playmobil designers or directors so i can't be sure on what is going on inside their heads.
but trying to see them as nothing-really-important is also wrong and unfair.
maybe a pure commercial approach is the best way to deal with this - if playmobil does sets that can appeal to a larger range of people, they can sell more.
smart-up playmobil, you are loosing millions.
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... i am sorry to impose upon you a double post but i suddenly remembered something that can add a few more things to think about.
recently klickywelt had a problem with world war ii customizations.
it was talked about in this forum - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=2170.0 - and it seems that playmobil itself created a rule of some kind that prohibited this kind of sets to be shown in public.
maybe this destroys the theory that they are just like childs looking out their windows for inspiration on how to design their sets.
apparently they look around them and dislike some themes like this one dismissing any naive notions we can have about them.
the problem can be that only see what they want to see.
it is easy to see problems in others (what i am writing actually confirms that). it's not that easy to see our own problems.
even if you consider (i don't) that censorship is needed you have to agree with me (actually you don't) that it has to come with a rock-solid moral behaviour attached.
with so many "gaffes" in their production i can't see playmobil having reasons to be classified as a morality champion.
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i only see Playmobil represent one on the list of 9.
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9419/imgcol32904enva0.png) (http://imageshack.us)
Good Lord, I only recognise five of those myself! I got Christianity, Judaeism, Hindu & Moslem, and middle right is Shinto.
Could you enlighten me as to what the others are Ras?
I think that Bogro has it right, that they are reproducing the world as seen by German children, and there just isn't a market for Shinto, Moslem and Jewish imagery in Germany.
How many other toy lines are doing anything vaguely religious?
The Taj Mahal is one of the Seven Modern Wonders of the World, and I think that's why Lego have re-created it, not because of any religious ideals.
One of the other Modern Wonders is Rome's Colosseum, which Playmobil have done in their own style!
Full List (announced 17th Sept 2007): You'll notice they're mostly not really modern, but they do all still exist in today's world. I'd label these as Ancient Wonders of the Modern World, and do a new list of structures more recently created (Mount Rushmore, Eiffel Tower, that soft of deal).
Chichén Itzá, Mexico
Christ the Redeemer, Brazil
The Great Wall, China
Machu Picchu, Peru
Petra, Jordan
The Roman Colosseum, Italy
The Taj Mahal, India.
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1 Christianity--------2.1 billion
2 Judaism------------15 million
3 Hinduism-----------851 mil
4 Islam----------------1.3 bil
5 Buddhism------------375 mil
6 Shintoist-------------2.8 mil
7 Sikhism--------------25 mil
8 Baha'ism-------------7.5 mil
9 Jainism--------------15 mil
* info from 2004
Sorry for bringing up a subject like this but i do find other peoples opinions very interesting . I also have purchased (as many as i could get) nativity scene do to a Target error and have the characters coming out of my ears . I am trying to find a way to balance my population of Klickies 0) Right now i am Christian heavy so to avoid sending them to the executioner i thought of bringing in other examples of spiritual beliefs which will also be used for educational purposes .
SO thank you for your insight and keeping it civilized :wow:
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1 Christianity--------2.1 billion
2 Judaism------------15 million
3 Hinduism-----------851 mil
4 Islam----------------1.3 bil
5 Buddhism------------375 mil
6 Shintoist-------------2.8 mil
7 Sikhism--------------25 mil
8 Baha'ism-------------7.5 mil
9 Jainism--------------15 mil
* info from 2004
Well, I guess it's less controversial than the Roman nazi thread...
Shintoism is a very indigenous set of Japanese traditional practices. The term itself was not coined until the Meiji era when the imperial-reformers sought to underscore Japanese nativity. "Shinto" practices and Buddhist practices are so entwined in Japan that it is not accurate to say Person A is a Shintoist and Person B is a Buddhist.
The number of true Buddhists in China is greatly under-represented in the figures above. "Atheism" is the official religion of the Chinese Communist Party but Buddhist beliefs didn't suddenly vanish in the 60 years since 1948.
As for Playmobil, I agree with Bogro's comment that Zirndorff is a German city, probably a lot like Saint Louis (where I live) in terms of being predominately "European" in culture. For Playmobil to make a church isn't really making a statement.
I mean, I'm an atheist, but I grew up around churches. I know about Church weddings, Friar Tuck, et cetera. Most Playmobil consumers are Americans and Europeans who identify with the familiar. Japanese (and the increasing Chinese) consumer base likely are attracted to the exoticism of the very-European Playmobil.
So everybody is probably happy.
Yes, I would love a well-made Playmobil Buddhist temple. But, I'd shy from calling the lack of one narrow-mindedness or political agenda.
Incidentally, the Taj Mahal is a mausoleum to an Indian Sultan's wife (or mistress). It isn't a religious center, but is treated like a museum. So, Lego's inclusion of the Taj is an architectural gesture rather than a religious gesture.
Finally, a key thing we are overlooking: according to Richard, the Magic Castle Theme began as an Arabian Knights theme, and in keeping with that, PM has released a few Indian-like prince sets (3835, 3837, 4505) and the magic castle is similar in shape to what we think of as Mughal architecture. For whatever reason, those sets didn't lead to full-fledged themes. Maybe consumers were less interested in stuff they didn't recognize.
So, don't blame Playmobil! Remember, it's a commerical toy, not a Social Studies course!
-Tim
PS. On my trips to Japan, China, and Korea, I've looked hard for Asian Playmobil-equivalents. Toys there, even the ones that are homegrown, tend to be sci-fi, fantasy, or modern military. Chinese kids, for instance, don't seem to be as interested in playing with Three Kingdoms era toys as we are playing with King Arthur-era toys. It seems Asian kids love the modern or space-fantasy and are less interested in historical toys or "culturally relevant" toys.