PlaymoFriends
General => News => Topic started by: sbblabotw on April 15, 2013, 14:01:09
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Well, I'm back from my travels, and tackling all the backlog in the rest of my life as well as the big problem of PlaymoDB. I'll do a little explaining here.
When the whole site went down April 1st, it was because the server it was on was actually crashing because of PlaymoDB, so they shut down the whole thing until I could fix the problem. It's a shared server that I pay for space on (like most hobby and small-business websites) so they had every right to do so. I worked with their tech support to identify that it was the set-pages and part-pages that were causing the most trouble, so I turned them off, and they re-instated the rest of the site. The remaining functions are still causing slowdowns, though. It may be suspended again at any time.
The cause of the overload is that the amount of data is growing well beyond what I wrote the original search functions to handle. I had no idea in 2004 that I'd someday have 30,000 parts and 3000 sets to deal with! Searching through this huge pile to show all the set inventories and part- and klicky-information is what's giving the server the heart-attack. The whole site has to be re-written to be more efficient - not a quick fix.
And here's my problem with this. I'm one person, with a full-time job and heavy family and community commitments that have nothing to do with PlaymoDB. I'm not a "they", I'm a "she". I might have a few hours to spend on it daily if nothing else takes priority. Moreover, I receive no income or other benefits from it except the goodwill of the users - indeed, I pay for the server out of my own pocket, but the TIME is what costs the most.
I can't see a big enough chunk of time in the near future to devote to re-writing PlaymoDB so it will be able to keep running. I might be able to do a little bit. I'm receiving dozens of emails and personal messages wondering when the site will be back, and I don't have anything to tell them. I had to consciously ignore the email on my very special trip last week to avoid the mess ruining the whole trip for me - if I can't maintain enough life balance to do that without PlaymoDB interfering, then it's PlaymoDB that I'll have to give up. It's as simple as that.
I've written to the Playmobil Company in hopes of starting discussion about them taking over my data repository - no more specifics than that, no idea how they might want to go about it, what form it will take, whether I'll stay involved past a certain time period, no details and no expectations at all at this point. Maybe they won't want anything to do with it, but since they do use it and benefit the most from it, they're the logical ones to take it over, so I hope some arrangements can be made. Don't pester Playmobil just yet with suggestions, demands or requests on my behalf - let them figure it out. I'll do my best to keep everyone informed, but, again... TIME. I just don't have enough of it.
I'd like to acknowledge and thank all the volunteers who have sent me loads of instruction plans, photos, inventories, corrections, comments over the years. It's been great working with you. But really? Thank each other. You've benefited yourselves, and thousands of visitors that never show their faces here or anywhere else, so much more than me. It's been fun for a long time. I hope I can continue to have fun with it - we'll just have to wait and see.
Cheers, Heather
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Sad news indeed. :o
No matter how this ends thank you for what you have done for us during the last years. :)
I am still hoping for a solution.
H_M
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This is very sad news. Hopefully it will all work out in the end. But no matter what happens, as much as we all love and depend on playmodb, I'm sure we all understand that we can't expect it to rule your life forever. It's a huge project for one person to keep up alone. Thanks for all the hard work you have done through the years!
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Hi Heather,
First of all many thanks for all the work you've done for everyone here. Your site is a bible for us and I can only imagine all the hours you've spent building this wonderfull site which is so helpfull for everyone. Again.... THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
As for trying to find a solution to keep this site alive & kicking, would it be foolish to think that this site could be available through a membership with a small fee that could cover the costs of maintaining this unique site that is so valuable to everyone...
Being a father of three myself, I fully understand that you can't spend all these hours on this site while having other priorities in your life and it's perfectly legit...... You've done it till now, on your own time, precious time that you've given to all of us, so maybe you feel that it's time to pass the torch so you can find a balance in all of this.....
Another part of the solution might be to find a way to dispatch the work between volunteers by taking each one a select theme and be responsible for the updating..... Someone picks western, another the pirates, another one the dollhouse..... etc..... Technically I don't know how this can work, but it might be an avenue worth thinking...
These are a few ideas to discuss, so feel free to leave any constructive comments so we can find a solution to help Heather, so all of her work lives forever!
Uncle Dan :wave:
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Hi Heather -
Thanks for the update. I have feared for a while that Playmodb might eventually face such a crisis - the site is so popular and so successful and, as you say, you are just one person with a limited amount of time - something that money donations alone cannot alter. I hope that you were able to enjoy your vacation without stressing out about Playmodb's issues. :yup:
It is exciting to think about the possibility that Playmobil may take over management of the site and I wish you good luck with that. If that doesn't work out, perhaps we can put together a group of fans who can either work closely with you or even take it over completely - there seem to be a lot of tech-savvy folks here at PF. Unfortunately, I cannot count myself in their number but I would definitely offer financial support for such an enterprise as I am sure others would, too.
Whatever happens, you will have the eternal gratitude of thousands of Playmobil fans. You have always managed Playmodb graciously and generously and maybe now it is time for us to let you off the hook! ;D
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If I understood correctly the main issue atm is the shared server hosting which means that it might be still working on a faster dedicated server. 30000 entries are maybe not that amount of data when on a server with sufficient capabilities. Even in the present state before the last crash I normally had a smooth experience.
Of course it would be more expensive and hence some kind of reliable crowdfounding would have to be organized.
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Yes, but the hitch there is that geobra may not permit the site to exist if any money were made from it. I wonder if it were not-for-profit, though? Like if the funding were only enough to keep the site running? I'm sure we'd all be willing to pay a membership fee to use the site, it's just how to get geobra to allow it.
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I'd like to add my thanks to Heather for all the time and money she has put into playmoDB to our benefit. I also hope that either Heather can get Geobra to help (by funding her or by taking over the running of playmoDB, hopefully with Heather still in control, if that's what she wants) or it will be possible to finance the site for Heather, whether it is by contributions from supporters or money from advertising.
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I was thinking about advertising, too. Since the income would be from ads, and not technically from any use of playmobil, it should be allowable, I would think.
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It's a difficult situation. I think money is less the problem than time is. Memberships or just having a donation option could bring in enough to cover hosting costs. It's the time to do the coding and data entry that creates a more long term bottle neck I expect. I know that the only reason I have been able to keep up with Animobil is because it is such a narrow range of things to keep track of. That and having a site creation software that automates a lot of the detaily bits for me is what's allowed me to keep up. I have let other aspects of my sites slide though, with the shields/heraldry section being out of date for now and my other collecting pages even more so. It might be worth talking to David Donachie about the database issues. He's dealt with a lot of that from the coding side in keeping the Grophland online game going.
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I hope you can get the site back up Heather.
I've been delaying and delaying the new version of mine :-[
What is the problem? The amount of records doesn't seem near enough to bog the server.. So, maybe a dedicated server could do it?
If it was sqlserver, I could offer help with the coding, but my contact with MySQL was brief and unpleasant :(
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Please contact me.
My job is working with large amounts of data and 30.000 items in my line of work is peanuts. I think the biggest problem is the server bandwith, but that is something worth looking into. We cannot let your work disappear as it is of HUGE importance to the playmo community.
I would love to have a look at the underlying database to see what's the problem here, because anything below 500k records...is not a reason to lose performance.
Just takes some good indexing and boom we're sorted.
Your work has done so much good for us..it cannot end!
Edit:
I don't know Geobra's stance on this, but if we can get the database model optimized, a crowdfunding action should be set up easily to pay for dedicated hosting. Anyone who is serious about collecting NEEDS THIS SITE. I'd rather spend 50 Euro on keeping the site up then on a next playmo purchase!
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Heather, heartfelt thanks for such a wonderful gift for the Playmobil community. Thank you also for the update. I hope that the resource will be snapped up and we can continue to benefit from all the effort and love which has gone into it.
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Thanks for the update and keeping the site going until now. I hope a solution can be found.
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I would rather spend the pcc membership on playmodb, that's for sure! I access the db much more often than pcc anyway.
Cheer up Heather, we will find a solution, we must find a solution!
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I would rather spend the pcc membership on playmodb, that's for sure! I access the db much more often than pcc anyway.
Cheer up Heather, we will find a solution, we must find a solution!
ABSOLUTELY!!!
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Heather -
If we raised some money to improve the server situation would that allow you to "kick the can down the road" as far as re-writing the software? How much money would be needed over the next few years to ensure smooth operation of an ever-expanding Playmodb on a dedicated server?
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I would rather spend the pcc membership on playmodb, that's for sure! I access the db much more often than pcc anyway.
Cheer up Heather, we will find a solution, we must find a solution!
Lets not throw the pcc under the bus
I am sure it does not have to be an either or situation
Most members should be able to afford both
If Heather decides that is something that will help with the problem I know I will donate support
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You're right, Ras. I only meant what I said: so far I've been spending more time on playmodb than on the pcc, since it was launched. I've been keeping the French members of Playmo'délisme up to date with Heather's whereabouts. They're unanymous, everybody's willing to support financially for a larger bandwidth or whatever is needed. Though, some of them have already pointed out they don't want to pay for others who would benefit the database without spending a cent. Human nature…
I for one could afford both the pcc and a donation to playmodb, and I'm sure lots of members here and on other boards can, but how many will eventually donate?
Heather, the choice is up to you in the end. Just don't let us down! And of course, I want to thank you for everything you've already done for us. :love:
A.
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Well, I don't care if others are getting to use the site for free, I'd still be willing to donate to keep it going, and I'm sure many others would as well. It's a resource we all depend on so much, you're right Arnaud, we must find a solution!
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I hope everything goes well for you and your wonderful website! :)
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First and most important, no one can expect you to get it up again soon and regardless to the time for you available or under circumstances you are not comfortable with. :-)
(:shhhh: I guess that it would take Geobra about 1.5 years to decide if they can be bothered at all and yet another 2 to get a third party company running it. ;-D)
Still I hope that playmodb has not necessarily to be changed but just hosted on a more capable server if it shall be up again 'as soon as possible' without spending much of your time and rewriting (parts of) it.
Suitable changes (maybe even allowing it to stay on the present server for some time) would be better. As already said by tahra and Keesinho with professional background there is probably some space for improvement and fortunately he already volunteered. (:thanks:) Please contact him. :-)
Fundraising by advertisements, payed memberships or any other change that might bring others out there to suspect evil :2c: economical motivation$ or impending 'exclusiveness' and that would possibly bring legal, fiscal, administrative and other obligations could be avoided. To fund a dedicated server (~50$/month maybe even less) a few dozen people donating an average of 1.00$ each month should be sufficient if (and as long as) this flow can be made steady and reliable.
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A PayPal donation button would garner more funds than a person might think. Funds that if not used right away could be put aside and drawn upon later when needed.
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I am a great fan of Playmodb (it is my favourite and most visited website) and really hope it can be kept going by (and for) fans. I would gladly contribute financially to maintain it. Like bonniebeth, I would not mind if people used it without contributing. I gather there are already 'blocks' in place to prevent people exploiting it commercially (e.g. ebay sellers linking to the pictures).
If you are getting time to read these replies Heather, I hope you feel reassured that we will support your decisions about the DB, whatever they are- and thanks from me too for such a fantastic resource! I echo Indianna's early response:
You have always managed Playmodb graciously and generously and maybe now it is time for us to let you off the hook! ;D
Graham
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Thanks, everybody, for your words of support. I really appreciate it! I'm really, really working on not stressing myself and keeping things in perspective. It's not the end of the world. It's just toys.
There are two issues to accepting money from users to upgrade the server capability:
1) Entering the grey area of a commercial site. There seems to be a tacit agreement with Playmobil at the moment, that they won't prosecute me for copyright infringement; but once money starts to change hands, they may have no choice but to involve the lawyers. Nobody wants that.
2) Once I accept payment for service, even donations or advertising, I have an obligation to provide something to the users, an obligation I don't have now. It's a hobby and that's all. I can quit the whole thing if I want to. I don't want to, but you never know what's down the road! I cannot handle a new "real" job.
I can't imagine I could generate enough income from this to replace my day job or even to support some time off to devote to it, so unless there was a steady stream sufficient to pay for a dedicated server - 10 to 15 times what I pay now - it would just be a little bonus really, and once it was set up, if the income decreased, I'd feel pressured to pay for any shortfall. Not to mention, the time it has always taken day-to-day wouldn't change much... and the data store is only increasing in size. What happens when the new server runs out of capability? I'm thinking of the future, too.
On the good side, Playmobil has said, "let's talk". I won't go into details until I actually have something concrete to report, but I'm hopeful.
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That sounds like good news! Hopefully there will be a good solution in there somewhere.
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Does the DB conflict with the parts/instruction feature of Geobra? I mean are they both the same thing in theory. I know they are not set up the same and do not function the same and but if Geobra bought out the DB what would be the reason for keeping it going if they have already demonstrated that they are building their own parts identifier system?
I prefer the DB over Geobras incomplete and over all un-user-frindly parts site.
I do not now why but I have concerns about Geobra taking over the DB :-\
I have so many examples how fans are way more creative in setting up/running websites
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You did a wonderfull job all these years for sure. :)
Might be good if you could find a small group of dedicated fans to work with you so you dont have to do this alone anymore. If there's about five people working on it with a good system for what everyone does and good communication back and forth, it could be sorted out in no time. Just need to find some tech savy playmo fans.
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That sounds encouraging, Heather.
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Your db, your choice. :)
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Hello Heather,
please read your private messages, thanks.
Regards,
TJ
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I can not think my hobby without PlaymoDB.
I think it is time for Geobra to make something for all of us.
PCC is the least for all her customers and collectors.
I can not hear anymore that silly excuse that the main goal of geobra are the kids and not the collectors! Because i was a child and until now i am a great customer of Geobra.My kids and their friends buying playmos and when they see my collection they want to buy more so i think it is time for Geobra too be so big as Lego and other companies are for their customers (children or collectors).
Heather and all those beautiful persons must have a serious help from someone who makes money from their work, because only Geobra gets serious money from all that.
They are so slow on everything....they are still selling t-shirts and mugs on PCC...
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I wonder if it would be possible to return/revert Playmodb to an earlier point.
A point when it still worked. Even if the latest sets are not on it.
In the meantime we could use the instructions online at playmobil.com to get recent part numbers.
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Having been occupied with non-Playmo related issues the past month, I hadn't any clue about how profound the technical problem with Playmodb seems to be...
I hope the site can be fixed, as collectors/customizers we almost can't live without it.
Many thanks Heather, for all the time and efforts you've put in it over all these years!! I hope Geobra (or others) will be able to help you out to get playmo.db back on track! :crossed:
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I reckon Geobra should sponsors Heather's site and pay for the annual expenses to say the least.
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I reckon Geobra should sponsors Heather's site and pay for the annual expenses to say the least.
And help fill in all the missing data on the old sets.
(What would be really nice would be a coordinated online ordering system.)
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And help fill in all the missing data on the old sets.
(What would be really nice would be a coordinated online ordering system.)
We better not hold our breaths. Especially if you mean worldwide :(
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I was wondering if there is any update on this?
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I was wondering if there is any update on this?
Aye, me too ... :'(
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In the questionary for the HoB-Interview in the PCC, I asked Mr B. if the company would be willing to provide technical assistance to get playmodb running again. A lot of company-folks from the DS-departments too use playmodb...
Wondering what the answer will be, if there will be one at all...
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In the questionary for the HoB-Interview in the PCC, I asked Mr B. if the company would be willing to provide technical assistance to get playmodb running again. A lot of company-folks from the DS-departments too use playmodb...
Wondering what the answer will be, if there will be one at all...
Please remember that Heather asked to abstain from any kind of lobbying this cause. ;) :shhhh:
On a sidenote: I always took playmodb for granted just because it always was there. Out of curiosity I was toying with a few db tables and part lists recently. I am in deep awe about the unfathomable amount of dedication and time that must have gone into the development of playmodb and the collection of the data over the years. Thank you once again for all the work, Heather. Let's hope there will be (and there must be :prays: :sorrow:) a stable solution even if it will take some time. :)
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I understand that it is up to Heather and I wouldn't count much on the company on this. Since a lot of people are interested in having PlaymoDB back online and also το contribute either financially or technically, there should be a way to make this happen.
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Please remember that Heather asked to abstain from any kind of lobbying this cause. ;) :shhhh:
Hadn't thought of that at the time I asked it... :-[
What might (perhaps) make that worse:
On a German forum (not KW) someone (a longlasting member of the collectors-community) says he is busy with helping Heather out and providing technical assistance/analysis for the software, and that they've come to the conclusion that not the amount of data on the site is the cause for the malfunctions/not-working searchfunctions, but ... that people from Geobra are the cause! :o >:(
Attention: this is just what this person says overthere, it is not (yet) affirmed or dismissed by another source. Some people have asked him to give further explanation, but he has not responded to that (yet).
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Well, if he and Heather are working together, then I'm sure she can handle it.
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Hi folks. Not a lot to report - busier than ever but it's because I have so many blessings, so I will not whine. I'm in dialogue with a techie from Playmobil, who has some good ideas and suggestions. (The problems have nothing to do with Geobra, by the way.) Did some testing, tried a new technique with some success. Things are inching along. But even the techie needs me to spend some time sorting out the mess of files on the webserver, so it's still a slow process. I know it's important to you all. Bear with me.
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Hi folks. Not a lot to report - busier than ever but it's because I have so many blessings, so I will not whine. I'm in dialogue with a techie from Playmobil, who has some good ideas and suggestions. (The problems have nothing to do with Geobra, by the way.) Did some testing, tried a new technique with some success. Things are inching along. But even the techie needs me to spend some time sorting out the mess of files on the webserver, so it's still a slow process. I know it's important to you all. Bear with me.
Thank you for the update!
I'm glad playmobil are helping out.
We really do appreciate all the work you put in to the site - even if we never say thank you enough.
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Hadoque, you acted with the best of intentions in asking your question and if Playmobil are helping Heather (as is the case) then it's in their interests to let fans know this, so hopefully your question will be answered.
Heather, many thanks for all the work you have put into playmoDB in the past and your still greater input now for us.
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when the DB get re-written. There should be one more thing in it.. (still avaible from DS or not anymore avaible) :) when Playmobil wanna help out, they can easily implement this.. Saves the DS a lot of email question from Collectors
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when the DB get re-written. There should be one more thing in it.. (still avaible from DS or not anymore avaible) :) when Playmobil wanna help out, they can easily implement this.. Saves the DS a lot of email question from Collectors
I'll be MORE than happy and grateful if the DB comes back the way it was before-I don't mind asking the DS people a few questions sometimes...Thanks again Heather, for all the work you do for the Playmo-community, we've taken the DB for granted too long. :)
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Glad to hear that Playmobil is getting involved! Hope things get resolved quickly, because without PlaymoDB, I have to rely on Playmobil.com, which, is not nearly as comprehensive as your site! :)
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I've been so absent from the PM online world that I was totally unaware of this until I came accross this thread.
Heather, I too have to show lots of gratitude because of your wonderful website and your amazing job on it.
I am sorry to hear the difficulties you are under to keep it run it all by yourself, but it's totally understandable and I, like many folks on here, would be willing to contribute financially-wise to not loose PlaymoDB, if ever necessary. However it's good to know someone at the Playmobil company is being cooperative. Please keep us informed about how it unfolds.
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I hope that if/when PlaymoDB gets shut down, the database will be available for download... I'm still convinced that a parts database should be able to perform like lightning..its not that much data...
(this is not an insult at the owner or anything, but just an outing of frustration, all that information stored and no way to access it...argh its doing my head in! :))
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I hope that if/when PlaymoDB gets shut down, the database will be available for download... I'm still convinced that a parts database should be able to perform like lightning..its not that much data...
(this is not an insult at the owner or anything, but just an outing of frustration, all that information stored and no way to access it...argh its doing my head in! :))
I'm sure it's still more frustrating for Heather who owns playmoDB and has put (and is still putting) lots of time and money into the site.
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I've been away from the board and Playmobil in general over the last year or so and while I hope PlaymoDB has a positive outcome, regardless I and others owe Heather a tremendous debt of gratitude for her time, effort, and expense over the years. Thank you, Heather! :thanks:
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Is there any update on what is happening (if anything) with playmoDB? is there any plan in restoring original operation etc?
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Is there any update on what is happening (if anything) with playmoDB? is there any plan in restoring original operation etc?
These days I was wondering about it too... ???
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I saw this thread pop up on the "unread posts" and was hoping it would state that the site was up and running again.
Are new sets even being added anymore?
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I saw this thread pop up on the "unread posts" and was hoping it would state that the site was up and running again.
Are new sets even being added anymore?
Just had a look... The images of the new Shopping Mall and Asia Dragon sets are there, but without parts-inventory though (except for a single part here and there).
I wonder if Playmo-db will ever get fully functional again...
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I'd like to know if there was anything we could do to help.
I think we all owe Heather a great deal and if I could help out I would.
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It is almost a year that playmoDB is (half) down... I was wondering if there is any update on what its fate will be. We may wake up one morning and even whatever leftover functionality is there, gone...
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Meanwhile hang on to any ETN (part numbers) which we think playmodb would need later..
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Come on, we have had nearly one year of time to find out how to use playmodb in a different style and in fact there is nearly no information that has been gone, it is only a little bit tricky to get it, but it works... still
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In all honesty, I'd kind of forgotten all about the site. It's been close to a year since I've tried to navigate through it.
I hope it gets fixed ASAP.