PlaymoFriends
General => News => Topic started by: Coyote on December 14, 2011, 23:24:29
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Bisphonel A- a potentially hazardous chemical, has been getting a lot of attention in my home state over the last year-
http://bangordailynews.com/2011/12/13/business/manufacturers-forced-to-report-use-of-bpa-and-other-toxic-chemicals-in-toys-paints/print/
As this article points out, Playmobil is a major offender in its use-
Wikipedia on BPA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A
Thoughts?
Been a lot of negative press on Playmobil over the last day or two...
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I often wondered this and asked a year ago about the type of plastic Geobra uses. I was told by members in forums that playmobil brand did not have any but I quick sucking on my klickies just in case :P :loco: :hellol: :(o):
BPA was used for hard clear water bottles or in plastic #7. if you look at the bottom of jugs it has a triangle that represents arrows in an infinite loop with a number in the center. The number is the type of plastic. Number seven had BPA's
Any further info would be appreciated
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someone asked... and I use the term loosely... about this on the facebook page and this was the response.
The health and safety of children is our first priority, which is why all our toys undergo intense testing and analysis. The production material, colors as well as the final PLAYMOBIL products themselves are tested according to both U.S. federal toy safety guidelines and European international toy safety rules. PLAYMOBIL toys fulfill, and wherever possible exceed, all existing safety regulations. Playing with PLAYMOBIL toys is not only fun, but safe for children. For more information on this topic, please visit
http://www.toyassociation.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Industry_Statements&CONTENTID=16756&TEMPLATE=%2FCM%2FHTMLDisplay.cfm
The indication is basically that the reason Playmobil is an offender according to some is because they went ahead and disclosed everything instead of just giving the minimum info required for levels over the amounts that was requested.
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Playmobil is a choking hazzard for children under the reccommended age standards. I'd think that if a child was old enough NOT to eat the parts, they'd also be old enough not to continue sucking on them or injesting them in any way shape or form. If you think about it, all plastics are chemically-produced....technically I wouldn't want to put plastic in my mouth as much as possible, even plastic dinnerware. They all have toxins in at least minute amounts, even if they pass the minimum requirements.
But I prefer my PM in plastic. I don't think I'd want to see PM being made out of wood anytime soon :(
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I agree. As long as we aren't eating it, it should be fine. The only possible concern would be with the 123 line, since those will be chewed and sucked on by toddlers.
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the line 123 should out of production. if i ever have kids, in that age, will not be playing with playmobil. but later we will play all together...
once i heard that the plastic used was ABS. i don't know if it is true, could anyone check please?
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BPA needs to be removed from food containers and sippy cups, teething rings etc, but it seems to be a limited risk in Playmobil-
Unfortunately, there have been several reports here that all talk about Playmobil containing BPA- and I'm SURE it isn't the only toy containing the chemical- does Lego have BPA-
eh, the worst risk is some women might get "little beards"
http://bangordailynews.com/2011/02/22/politics/gov-lepage-dismisses-dangers-of-bpa/
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I did some digging and found that Lego claims not to use BPA ... unless they have to make a specialized part that needs it... so the regular bricks don't have it... but almost everything else does, but they didn't/haven't reported yet because it is below the levels that require it. Playmobil's levels are pretty laughable and can only be released from the product if you melt it, or microwave it, or grind it up and eat it for breakfast every day, and since the half-life is 1-10 days ... you would have to keep eating it every day. Also a funny side note... almost all the instruments they use to test for BPA... have BPA in them... :lol:
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Playmobil's levels are pretty laughable and can only be released from the product if you melt it, or microwave it, or grind it up and eat it for breakfast every day, ..
If someone does that to playmobil, well... what can I say.. They deserve whatever they get! :lol:
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Playmobil is a choking hazzard for children under the reccommended age standards. I'd think that if a child was old enough NOT to eat the parts, they'd also be old enough not to continue sucking on them or injesting them in any way shape or form. If you think about it, all plastics are chemically-produced....technically I wouldn't want to put plastic in my mouth as much as possible, even plastic dinnerware. They all have toxins in at least minute amounts, even if they pass the minimum requirements.
But I prefer my PM in plastic. I don't think I'd want to see PM being made out of wood anytime soon :(
Well not completely true... :-[
I sometimes hold Playmobil in my mouth,
Like if I have dismembered one and am trying to fit some pieces together... :P
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I have been forwarded a message from Judith Weingart (Head of Playmobil PR dept) which hopefully will answer any unanswered questions about BPA in Playmobil toys. :)
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We have already been notified of this situation by our PR-agency in the US yesterday. A press information has been prepared and a crisis plan is ready for usage by our US-colleagues. They have decided only to respond to incoming consumer, retailer resp. media inquiries and not actively distribute a press information. We leave this in the experienced hands of our PR agency together with PLAYMOBIL USA.
For your personal background information:
BisphenolA (BPA) is a structural ingredient of the plastics Polycarbonat. Polycarbonat is used for the production of PLAYMOBIL parts which are transparent, like wind screens, windows, waterfalls and so on.
Furthermore thermoplastic plastic material is used in a broad variety of consumer products, like for example plastic bowls or the inner coat of cans. When being heated BPA can migrate from the materials in which it is included.
BPA has been discussed with regard to baby bottles. This is a completely different usage than toys. Baby bottles are heated and used to contain hot liquid food for babies. PLAYMOBIL toys when regularly used are not heated and not used to contain food. BPA is structurally firmly incorporated in transparent PLAYMOBIL-parts and thus doesn’t harm the health of children while playing.
The State of Maine has passed an additional law to the existing national laws asking manufacturers of toys to declare if their products contain BPA. PLAYMOBIL USA has complied with this requirement end of September and sent a list of PLAYMOBIL toys including transparent parts and thus including BPA. This list is now being published and used to affirm PLAYMOBIL would offer toxic toys. This is not the case.
As you know PLAYMOBIL-toys are safe and it is our top priority to not only provide fun play but also safe play.
Hope this helps to better understand the situation.
Best regards
Judith
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Thanks so much for passing that along, Sylvia. Good to know they are already on top of things! The way US laws work, I'm sure they will soon have to include a warning in all boxes sold in the US, stating that the toys should not be heated and then eaten. :lol: But seriously, the last thing we need is for playmobil to get bad press, just when they are starting to become better known in the US! :hmm:
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Right, I'd better go and destroy all those clear parts....
Thanks for posting this, Sylvia :xmascheer:
Damo <*)
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while it may seem overkill to worry about seemingly insignificant amounts of a toxic chemical that is claimed to pose no immediate health threat unless heated and ingested, I do believe it is appropriate to treat the topic seriously and free from levity when it comes to the health and safety of children (and people in general). Sometimes we must even "overshoot" our safety margin to make sure there is a clear buffer zone of safety precautions in place. At the same time, we shouldn't jump the gun before we have all known facts in place. Ultimately it is up to the consumers, and parents, to be aware of hazards and protect themselves, but the responsibility to minimize risks in the products and provide truthful information about the risks is the duty of the industry and agencies designed to enforce health/safety standards.
Personally, I'm not 100% comfortable with most standards (including FDA standards) when they say a certain product is considered "safe" because it only contains a negligible amount of toxin that falls below minimum requirements that would warrant being deemed "unsafe." However, in an industrial world where most of our modern commodities are NOT made from natural materials, we sort of have to accept that toxins are present in almost everything we use or consume..... unless you start your own commune in a remote area untouched by modern industrialism, grow your own 100% organic vegatables and livestock, and hand-craft everything from natural elements like wood and other materials. And I don't mean to be facetious or sarcastic when I suggest that; some people actually go and do the whole "green" thing all the way. Really, that's how the entire world SHOULD be. Toxins shouldn't be present in our lives at all, if you ask me.
The sad reality of it is, though, we have grown, as a society, to become reliant on modern industrial convenience, and would be hard pressed to completely revert to a more simpler life going "green." Heck, my ability to even type this silicon-based message on a plastic keyboard goes against green in every way. Once this keyboard is broken, it will occupy a landfill, chemicals will be released into the atmosphere from the plastic as the sun hits it, and the toxins in the circuit boards will seep into the ground and contaminate ground water and surrounding environment.
Playmobil containing a toxin, but below percentages that would pose a risk is just part of our modern convenience package.
The real question I have is this: is there a way to have the best of BOTH worlds? Can we find new ways to enjoy modern convenience, but WITHOUT incorporating ANY (as in not even 1%) dangerous man-made toxins into our environments, our inventions, our homes & families, or, in this case, the toys that find there way into the hands (and sometimes mouths) of our children?
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For most part I agree with you blackpearl on the other hand what is meant by completely green and how doe that not contain any toxins?
Even materials from nature contains toxins. Formic acid, the biting stuff red ants carry is a potential mutagen. If you fry your burger on a barbecue and you get the black edges it contains large amounts of polyaromatic hydrocarbons which can be carcinogenic, and some of them are known to cause asthma.
Even when you think I will not fry my burger till it gets black but slightly brown it contains acrylamide which is very toxic! Every type of food which contains proteins in combination with starch when you heat it up acrylamide will be formed. Rice, potatoes, bread, chips etc.
Should we then only consume raw meat, or no meat at all and only vegetables. Some kind of vegetables contain oxalic acid which can cause kidney failure.
Maybe we should not eat at all and sit in the sun and let our bodies get exposed to the dangerous UV from the sun or the background radioactive radiation that comes from within the core of the earth.
What I'm trying to say is that it is impossible to live 100% safe. Fortunately a lot of scientist are working on obtaining materials which could have the same properties as the "toxic" materials, but are far less toxic.
Check this wikilink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic) for instance where you can read about bioplastics.
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Don't worry, the clickies are well protected. There is a bio hazzard team released some years ago after all. :)
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Should we then only consume raw meat, or no meat at all and only vegetables. Some kind of vegetables contain oxalic acid which can cause kidney failure.
Maybe we should not eat at all and sit in the sun and let our bodies get exposed to the dangerous UV from the sun or the background radioactive radiation that comes from within the core of the earth.
Let me rephrase my original assertion that "toxins should not be present at all" in the things we consume. I should say "We should minimize our use of toxins (both natural and man-made) that we can CONTROL in the products we manufacture and distribute to our general population."
We can't control all the toxins naturally present in some foods or products. But we CAN control how much man-made toxin is purposely put into our products made for general consumption and use. BPA is not a natrually-occuring toxin that is unavoidable when making a toy. BPA is something a designer consciously adds into the product during the design/creation process. That is the main difference.
When it comes to the science of argumentative logic, there is a logical fallacy somewhere under either the category of "faulty generalizations" or "red herring" perhaps, where a suppossition can be made to appear preposterous (thereby developing a faulty argument against it) simply by citing over-stated examples of seemingly-similar suppositions that seem outrageously ridiculous (example: start with the supposition "we shouldn't have any toxins present in the things we manufacture/consume," then make it look ridiculous by suggesting we should only eat raw meat, or not eat at all, and avoid the sun and the unavoidable radiation of the earth's core. Look how ridiculous the original supposition appears if we follow that line of thought making caution appear overexaggerated and trivial}.
Poisonous mushrooms are 100% natural I'm sure, but I'm not saying we should eat them. Oil deposits which become fossil fuels (and also become some plastics) are naturally occuring, but it doesn't mean it's safe to be around. Sulfur emitting from active volcanoes is natural, but it doesn't mean it is safe to breathe. Yes, there are naturally-occuring toxins that we can't prevent from existing, but as for the toxins we knowingly and willingly utilize (whether already naturally-existing or artificially-manufactured by humans), we need to give serious pause and appropriate concern when making decisions that can affect our health and the health of our children--no matter how allegedly-miniscule the risk. I for one don't gamble on small percentages when it comes to my kids especially. Nor do I jest or wish to make broad generalizations that trivialize the very serious topic. More time should be spent, as I previously suggested, finding ways to make products toxic-free when at all possible. I don't see how we can go wrong with that, save for giving up some modern conveniences that, in the long-run, will be more INconvenient to our health and our environment for this and other generations to come.
Don't get me wrong: I also like my modern conveniences and my plastic playmobil. But I do give serious pause about the impact their production has on our environment and health. Actually, I continue to buy playmobil and other products that use man-made materials (and passively support industrialism) with a guilty conscience. Truth is, none of this stuff is good for the environment.
Why does BPA have to be present at all? Is it an absolutely-necessary component? Is there an alternative ingredient that can be used? What was used before BPA in the first place?
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The short answer is that BPA helps hake plastics shatter resistant, the alternative is more brittle plastic that uses 2-3 times more oil to produce.
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The short answer is that BPA helps hake plastics shatter resistant, the alternative is more brittle plastic that uses 2-3 times more oil to produce.
So when plastics go brittle from being left outside in the sun or something (I'm thinking of a white plastic garden chair :P), I pressume this is when the BPA has gone?
Damo <*)
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I think BPA has been used for many years. It's just the latest trend to freak out over it. There may be some EXTREMELY minimal danger from having it in a toy that could possibly go in a child's mouth after being left in the sun to warm up, several times a day until they're 20, but I'm not worried. Just like I'm not worried about the miniscule amounts of radiation that are being emitted from my granite countertops as we speak or the toxins that may be lurking in my apple peels if I don't buy organic. ;) There are slight dangers in everything around us, but you have to pick and choose which ones you'll worry about, and this ain't one of them for me.
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Bingo this is when it has been "unlocked" ... so don't suck on those ones :) the BPA can be ingested from them. But the half life is 1-10 days so theoretically if you quarantined them for 5 half-lifes or 50 days, then they should be safe to eat again ;)
BTW it was discovered in 1891 so it has been used for a LONG time
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@blackpearl
I see you take this very serious indeed. And reading your post thoroughly it seems you interpretated my post as ridiculization on the supposition (don't you mean proposition) you stated. This was however not my intention, neither did I want to refute it.
what I was trying to point out, and I shall be more careful now, was the following. When reading these articles about toxins in toys it is seems they are always set up to scare people, rather then to warn them. That is something the media does and it irritates me.
So my argumentation was more like a way of trying to reassure you by giving examples where also toxins are involved, but is not spoken about in general.
So we do agree on the fact I don't want any toxin in my toys either, or my food. :)
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Thanks Sylvia, this is what I was hoping for when I started this thread- I love Playmo, but this BPA thing has been a big topic here in Maine, thanks to our "brilliant" governor... oops, sorry, no politics- :-[
But now I know what to say to my crunchy friends when they ask whether they can by PM for their kidlets. :lol:
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The short answer is that BPA helps hake plastics shatter resistant, the alternative is more brittle plastic that uses 2-3 times more oil to produce.
You mean a plasticizer?
I just thought BPA is one of the monomers to obtain the polymer (plastic) polycarbonate.
Phosgene + bpa -> polycarbonate
and since the reaction is not 100% some of the polymer still contains a minor amount of the bpa monomer, which can leak out at higher temperature.
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I suppose you all have a point about everything being a danger
I was moving asbestos the other week - that makes BPA seem about as dangerous as sticking chocolate up your nose! :lol:
Damo <*)
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Hey... that chocolate is dangerous stuff when not used properly :lol: which reminds me I need to make more chocolate playmo 123s this year... sorry mind wandering.
connifrere; you may be right about that, its been a while since I've worked with the specifics, and my chemical engineer wife is at work down at the atomic site, so I can't bug her about it at the moment :lol: ...
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@baron
:) :) as a confrere your wife and I could figure it out
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@conn
sorry, I've been on an argumentative roll lately. It's not you. My deepest apologies my friend, I did not mean to go on the offensive (or defensive) on purpose. I see your point and those of others. All in all, IMO, without actual factual evidence in front of me to refute it, just instinct-wise I don't really think PM poses a significant immediate health risk (or else I'd not let my kids play with them still).
It is interesting to note that the evidence presented about BPA varies depending on the source. From the few articles I read today, it seems those who present evidence negating any significant danger tend to be from those who have an interest in preserving the chemical industry, while those presenting evidence against it tend to be from organizations that do not have a vested interest in it directly. And other authorities tend to not want to answer definitively at the risk of making an unwarranted scare which they could be blamed for (if they said it was dangerous), or at the risk of being held liable for personal damages in case the product did end up harming some consumers after they gave an official endorsement of its alleged safety.
As far as I'm concerned, the question is still up in the air, and I think that's the same issue politicians are facing (some of which may also have vested interests related to its continued production).
My main point, though, was to affirm the whole idea of giving serious pause and examining BPA rather than dismissing it so easily (in general, not by anyone in particular). Sorry if it sounded personal dear conniefrere....I did spend a greater portion of the past 48 hours dealing with a personal argument unrelated to this, but it bled over here in my tone. Sorry!
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@blackpearl
Thanks for being so sincere. You did not need to apologize, but I appreciate it. I hope everything works out just fine for you on that other matter you mention my dear and wise friend.
:xmascheer: :wave:
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I have been forwarded a message from Judith Weingart (Head of Playmobil PR dept) which hopefully will answer any unanswered questions about BPA in Playmobil toys. :)
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We have already been notified of this situation by our PR-agency in the US yesterday. A press information has been prepared and a crisis plan is ready for usage by our US-colleagues. They have decided only to respond to incoming consumer, retailer resp. media inquiries and not actively distribute a press information. We leave this in the experienced hands of our PR agency together with PLAYMOBIL USA.
For your personal background information:
BisphenolA (BPA) is a structural ingredient of the plastics Polycarbonat. Polycarbonat is used for the production of PLAYMOBIL parts which are transparent, like wind screens, windows, waterfalls and so on.
Furthermore thermoplastic plastic material is used in a broad variety of consumer products, like for example plastic bowls or the inner coat of cans. When being heated BPA can migrate from the materials in which it is included.
BPA has been discussed with regard to baby bottles. This is a completely different usage than toys. Baby bottles are heated and used to contain hot liquid food for babies. PLAYMOBIL toys when regularly used are not heated and not used to contain food. BPA is structurally firmly incorporated in transparent PLAYMOBIL-parts and thus doesn’t harm the health of children while playing.
The State of Maine has passed an additional law to the existing national laws asking manufacturers of toys to declare if their products contain BPA. PLAYMOBIL USA has complied with this requirement end of September and sent a list of PLAYMOBIL toys including transparent parts and thus including BPA. This list is now being published and used to affirm PLAYMOBIL would offer toxic toys. This is not the case.
As you know PLAYMOBIL-toys are safe and it is our top priority to not only provide fun play but also safe play.
Hope this helps to better understand the situation.
Best regards
Judith
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So if this was just forwarded, that means that they're watching and monitoring. (?)
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I hope that's what it means... at least for the Brainstorming section :lol:
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So if this was just forwarded, that means that they're watching and monitoring. (?)
Not exactly. The message was sent to a friend and that friend forwarded it to me. :)