PlaymoFriends
General => Brainstorming For Playmobil => Topic started by: Tiermann on February 01, 2008, 20:28:16
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I believe it, there are a lot of possibilities for the Roman sets. I really would like to see the seating section form the arena as an add-on, and even more an add-on seating section like that but straight instead of curved - then it would be possible to make a proper circus for chariot races.
A concept I would love to see (but would take a serious commitment from Geobra/Br.):
A computer game/software that is a CAD (computer aided design) for Playmobil structures. The parts - probably just System X and other current release structure parts - would be programmed in, so you could make buildings that could actually be built. A possible income route for them would be to have the program create a parts list of what you have used in the building and then you could send the list off to a Playmobil email address and they would respond with the cost. If you could afford it you could respond with an order for the parts and they would be shipped to you. The game could have you set your location so the prices and part source would be correct for your closest shipping. The costs could potentially be stored in the game but it would require an updating process so they would stay current, as would the available parts to use in the CAD.
Even better for the castle fans out there would be a Steck expansion that would allow creation of those sorts of buildings too - and if they stocked the parts you can bet lots of people would be buying all sorts of Steck to make buildings with too.
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That sounds a great idea, Tim. Are you going to put it to them?
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Hello, Tim ...
A concept I would love to see (but would take a serious commitment from Geobra/Br.):
A computer game/software that is a CAD (computer aided design) for Playmobil structures.
As I'm sure you already know, Lego fans have had such a program for quite awhile.
I fact, Lego Digital Deigner (http://ldd.lego.com/) was recently updated.
see attachment
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Yes, I've used an older version of that program in the past, but I got out of LEGO some time ago. I can't imagine this hasn't already occurred to Playmobil, if for no other reason than the increasing number of buildings being shown in the animations.
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I can't imagine this hasn't already occurred to Playmobil, if for no other reason than the increasing number of buildings being shown in the animations.
Zirndorf just never seems to think of these things, Tim ...
They all seem to have their heads someplace else up there in Klicky Towers.
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I believe it, there are a lot of possibilities for the Roman sets. I really would like to see the seating section form the arena as an add-on, and even more an add-on seating section like that but straight instead of curved - then it would be possible to make a proper circus for chariot races.
A concept I would love to see (but would take a serious commitment from Geobra/Br.):
A computer game/software that is a CAD (computer aided design) for Playmobil structures. The parts - probably just System X and other current release structure parts - would be programmed in, so you could make buildings that could actually be built. A possible income route for them would be to have the program create a parts list of what you have used in the building and then you could send the list off to a Playmobil email address and they would respond with the cost. If you could afford it you could respond with an order for the parts and they would be shipped to you. The game could have you set your location so the prices and part source would be correct for your closest shipping. The costs could potentially be stored in the game but it would require an updating process so they would stay current, as would the available parts to use in the CAD.
Even better for the castle fans out there would be a Steck expansion that would allow creation of those sorts of buildings too - and if they stocked the parts you can bet lots of people would be buying all sorts of Steck to make buildings with too.
A straight seating section would be great, but imagine how long a circus you'd need for a proper race!
How about a Roman Bath house?
Love the CAD idea - but can't see Geobra doing it, though it would indeed be a potential income spinner - and also might give them ideas for creating their own new sets. If they did it, they could incorporate an agreement that anything you design they can use, possibly for a "finders fee".
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Hello, Martin ...
Love the CAD idea - but can't see Geobra doing it, though it would indeed be a potential income spinner - and also might give them ideas for creating their own new sets. If they did it, they could incorporate an agreement that anything you design they can use, possibly for a "finders fee".
Don't "count out" the CAD idea ...
Zirndorf absolutely hates it when Lego has something that they don't have (and vice versa) ... ;)
If we all keep talking up how really cool Lego's FANTASTIC downloadable design system is, the "message" will find it's way to Klicky Towers. What would really help is if one of our own program geniuses could find a way to modify the Lego program so that it works for Playmobil.
If we were all using a "modified" Lego SystemX CAD program, I could almost guarantee a Playmobil SystemX CAD program appearing rather quickly from Zirndorf! ... :lol:
All the best,
Richard
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. . . A concept I would love to see (but would take a serious commitment from Geobra/Br.):
A computer game/software that is a CAD (computer aided design) for Playmobil structures. The parts - probably just System X and other current release structure parts - would be programmed in, so you could make buildings that could actually be built. A possible income route for them would be to have the program create a parts list of what you have used in the building and then you could send the list off to a Playmobil email address and they would respond with the cost. If you could afford it you could respond with an order for the parts and they would be shipped to you. The game could have you set your location so the prices and part source would be correct for your closest shipping. The costs could potentially be stored in the game but it would require an updating process so they would stay current, as would the available parts to use in the CAD.
Even better for the castle fans out there would be a Steck expansion that would allow creation of those sorts of buildings too - and if they stocked the parts you can bet lots of people would be buying all sorts of Steck to make buildings with too.
:omg: Tim - this is what I have been fantasizing about for years! I even investigated available CAD software to see what was around that could handle such a project (I didn't get very far though :-[) I felt that such a program would also be a way for people to inventory the parts and sets they already have so that they can not only organize their collections but also experiment with virtual designs and know what additional parts are needed (as you were suggesting with the program generated price list.) I imagined the possibility of changing colors as desired, too, so that one could see what a white steck castle would look like, for example. This could also provide the basis for computer animations of Playmobil scenes. Customizers would be able to see what their desired creations would look like before taking all those klickies apart. I think that this type of software would be not only be a stand-alone success as a "game" but, as you say, Tim, a real potential money-maker for Geobra as people discover all the new designs they can make if they only had the right parts! It is a wonderful idea! Tim, you have done such a beautiful job with www.animobil.info, how much more difficult could this project be??? :toot: :)
Zirndorf absolutely hates it when Lego has something that they don't have (and vice versa) ... ;)
If we all keep talking up how really cool Lego's FANTASTIC downloadable design system is, the "message" will find it's way to Klicky Towers. What would really help is if one of our own program geniuses could find a way to modify the Lego program so that it works for Playmobil.
Right on, Richard! Let's do it! :yup:
I am now going over right now to look at that REALLY COOL FANTASTIC LEGO DOWNLOADABLE DESIGN SYSTEM PROGAM ;D
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The Software MLCAD for LEGO Design, can be used for Playmobil. "Someone" need to introduce the parts in the library.....
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Using a LEGO software for Playmobil? :o ;) I think maybe that's just the thing Richard had in mind.
I've used MLCAD in the past and should look up the current version and see what it's like. I haven't ever done object creation for it so would have to do some research. Heather at PlaymoDB might be another source we should talk to about this I know she has been involved in some LEGO projects in the past.
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The Spec is here:
http://www.ldraw.org/Article218.html
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and ... http://www.playmoboard.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13125
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The Spec is here:
http://www.ldraw.org/Article218.html
:woohoo:
Thanks for the link, JMV !!!
And, Sylvia, thanks for the link to the split ... otherwise I would have never found it ... :)
All the best and let's keep it going until Zirndorf makes a better Playmobil CAD for SystemX than the Lego CAD for SystemX !!!,
Richard
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PM could spit out a CAD (if it doesn't already exist) probably with 4-man-years of development (ie. 2 years for 2 people), leveraging off its existing engine that it uses to create the computer games.
Do we want a CAD in which we create pieces from scratch, or in which we have a library of pre-designed pieces that we assemble at will?
(Playmobil may even have this already for internal use).
I'd lean toward the pre-assembled pieces that we can drag-and-drop together instead of a true cad that lets you design from scratch.
I bought a CAD for map-making. It's powerful, but the level of expertise you need to do even mid-grade fancy stuff involves more of a time investment than I am willing or able to commit (plus it has gotcha bugs ("@#$%, why does my line thickness keep changing back after I enter the value?")) that only the most idealistic, enthusiastic junior high school student could endure with equanimity).
So I can make OK maps with it, but they usually taking far longer than they ought to take, and I spend a ton of time dorking around with the controls.
For this reason, I think the majority of us would benefit from a drag-and-drop sort of Windows-style cad that is smart enough to know where pieces click together and attractive enough to provide 3D rotations of the item.
Adding an interface to create animated movies from this would be a little more complicated, but not too bad if the original code contained an expectation of this (all-in-all an extra man-year, or am I being too optimistic?)
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Is the Lego CAD easy to work with? I glanced at the specs. The dork side of me was impressed with the engineering blueprints. But, the consumer side of me said: show me how to make bricks fast. I want to make a building as fast as I could make it with real bricks, straight from the box.
I mean, 95% of us PM collectors don't have experience with designing our own molds to have a need for creating System X parts completely from our imagination. I'd like to be able to draw from PM's entire line of parts (something I am unable to do physically) and see what I can re-create and from that create a list of parts I want to try to find/scavenge from my existing line.
Example: I want to create a Roman stone fort. But, before I wreck my fabulous 16th century manor house, I'd like to play around and make sure I like how this fort is going to turn out before I commit.
Similarly, I'd like to "drag-and-drop" items from Playmodb (including separate torsoes and legs from klickies) and model my Turkish janissary army before I physically break klickies apart only to learn they don't look so hot together.
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I doubt PM would ever give us that sort of support though, considering that would be a seriously adult-collector-oriented project. We'd be more likely to get a dress-up video game, with a limited selection of parts for a specific theme, to create our characters, and go through some sort of adventure.
-Tim
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Hello, Timmy ...
For this reason, I think the majority of us would benefit from a drag-and-drop sort of Windows-style cad that is smart enough to know where pieces click together and attractive enough to provide 3D rotations of the item.
This is exactly what the Lego CAD system does!
You should try it, Timmy!
All the best,
Richard
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I once tried the lego system and liked it very much.
A guy from the german board used it for his steck-fortress and I thought,
maybe one could just use it AS IT IS to rebuild SysX-Pieces with LEGO.
:yup:
(see the examples)
...but I stopped this approach. :P
As ldraw is an open project, it should be just as easy to add playmo-pieces
instead of Lego bricks. I avoided to invest the time so far... ::)
best,
socrates
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As ldraw is an open project, it should be just as easy to add playmo-pieces
instead of Lego bricks. I avoided to invest the time so far... ::)
Thanks, Socrates ...
I hope that someone here at Playmofriends has the time and the computer programming skills (that I don't have) to add Playmo-SysX pieces instead of Lego bricks to iDraw!
All the best,
Richard
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Using a LEGO software for Playmobil? :o ;) I think maybe that's just the thing Richard had in mind.
I've used MLCAD in the past and should look up the current version and see what it's like. I haven't ever done object creation for it so would have to do some research. Heather at PlaymoDB might be another source we should talk to about this I know she has been involved in some LEGO projects in the past.
My ears are burning...
In my Lego days, I was heavily into LDraw, the open source Lego CAD system (ML-CAD is just one interface although the most popular), to the point of designing simple parts for it. It's very finicky work, but manageable, especially with a group working on it. K'NEX parts have been added to the library as well, I believe. I think basic System X and Steck parts wouldn't be too hard to add, since they have a lot of common elements: the sockets and flat Steck connectors, for example. Animals, plants, and klickies would be a lot harder because of the irregular curved surfaces, but not impossible. (The surfaces of Lego parts tend to be either flat or in smooth curves, which simplifies the defining.) I left Planet Lego just as the official Designer program was getting off the ground, so I'm not familiar with that at all; I have my doubts about the possibility of creating one's own parts for it, though.
One of the first things we need to tackle this project, which would also benefit PlaymoDB quite a bit, is a consistent naming scheme. My "Building" category is a mess. There needs to be a common way of describing a System X column, say, with its dimensions, how many sockets it has, on how many sides, how far apart they are, whether it's hollow or enclosed on any sides. Baseplates? How big, how thick, how many sockets, along what edges, any in the middle? It's complicated.
I have been thinking for some time about how to define part size to make it searchable, and I can see that it will be essential to any system involving physical definition of parts. Many of the German names of parts, which I've saved even when the part is named in English, include at least one dimension in millimeters, so I can squeeze them out to a separate field in order to show them. That's a start; collecting part measurements is a task that dwarfs the describing of klickies (which is pretty large!), but of course not all parts would benefit from being measured. I'll see how much data there is already, and get out the calipers for some others I own. It's a start.
I've been just thinking out loud here for a bit, but I'm glad the subject was brought up. Keep me in the loop, by all means, and I'll contribute as much as I can.
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Hello, Heather ...
My ears are burning...
If Playmobil were interested in pursuing (and financing) this, would you be interested in doing it?
All the best,
Richard
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Hello, Heather ...
If Playmobil were interested in pursuing (and financing) this, would you be interested in doing it?
All the best,
Richard
A definite maybe! I'd need help, not only on the back end, but the ability to pull in the interested public to contribute. (The emergence of collaborative media, also known as Web 2.0, makes this a much more likely option than it might have been in the past.) As long as the focus stays on helping Playmobil owners enjoy their collections and creations, it will stay fun and rewarding for me, which is pretty much the only way to guarantee my work.
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A definite maybe! I'd need help, not only on the back end, but the ability to pull in the interested public to contribute. (The emergence of collaborative media, also known as Web 2.0, makes this a much more likely option than it might have been in the past.) As long as the focus stays on helping Playmobil owners enjoy their collections and creations, it will stay fun and rewarding for me, which is pretty much the only way to guarantee my work.
The proper enquiries/inquiries will be made ... ;)
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Thanks for giving this subject its own thread! Very exciting discussion here!
I have tried the LEGO design programs in the past and just looked at the latest version. I am simply not geeky enough (though truly I do claim some level of geekdom for myself ;) ) to delve into them deeply enough to adapt them for Playmobil parts. Also, although I do enjoy LEGO I don't love it enough to learn the whole LEGO design thing for this purpose.
. . . I'd need help, not only on the back end, but the ability to pull in the interested public to contribute. (The emergence of collaborative media, also known as Web 2.0, makes this a much more likely option than it might have been in the past.) As long as the focus stays on helping Playmobil owners enjoy their collections and creations, it will stay fun and rewarding for me, which is pretty much the only way to guarantee my work.
The proper enquiries/inquiries will be made ... ;)
If Heather were on board and Richard can work his magic, I would definitely be interested in doing whatever I could to help out. (It would be a welcome change from caressing my MISB sets and wondering how much I could get for them on ebay!)
Do we want a CAD in which we create pieces from scratch, or in which we have a library of pre-designed pieces that we assemble at will?
Why not both? The library of all existing pieces would be a must, with the ability to alter colors as desired. But how many times have we all tried to build something only to discover that a particular connector or roof piece or what-have-you simply does not exist? The ability to modify existing pieces and to create new pieces would be very useful in these cases. There is so much brilliant creative energy in the Playmobil community that I can't even begin to imagine the wonderful and entirely new things people would design with this capability.
I doubt PM would ever give us that sort of support though, considering that would be a seriously adult-collector-oriented project. We'd be more likely to get a dress-up video game, with a limited selection of parts for a specific theme, to create our characters, and go through some sort of adventure.
It could be a good income source for them though - people might be inspired to order lots and lots of parts through direct service (Geobra would probably need to expand DS) and these are parts which don't have to be packaged in pretty boxes and sent out to retailers for resale. Geobra would potentially be able to sell large quantities of product directly to consumers. These would be products which enhance the retail line and which aren't directly in competition with the retail line. Geobra could also learn what new parts are desired so that they could manufacture and sell them (for example the much-desired Steck/System X connector.)
It would not only appeal to adult collectors, but to parents who like to play long with their kids (a lot of us got started that way :yup: .) It would also appeal to kids who are older and still enjoy Playmobil but don't necessarily want to admit it :P . The program should include the ability to catalog the sets and parts that one owns (as a design tool) but also to help to organize and inventory all those thousands and thousands and thousands of pieces 8}.
- Anne
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The proper inquiries/enquiries have been made and have been answered.
The message is that we should wait and revisit this topic next year with "fresh" eyes.
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The proper inquiries/enquiries have been made and have been answered.
The message is that we should wait and revisit this topic next year with "fresh" eyes.
Hmmm . . . very mysterious . . . but intriguing. :crossed: Keeping my fingers crossed for luck. :)
- Anne
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The proper inquiries/enquiries have been made and have been answered.
The message is that we should wait and revisit this topic next year with "fresh" eyes.
Aw, Richard, that's completely cryptic.
Using your depth of experience and worldly wisdom, could you give the less sophisticated among us some insight into what this means?
Possible interpretations:
1) PM doesn't have the budget this year and doesn't like our ideas, but next year we should try again, preferably with a new generation of collectors ("fresh eyes") because they are thoroughly exhausted by the current one.
2) Playmobil appreciates our interest, but won't commit to anything, but doesn't want us to give up.
If my two interpretations are too cynical, a wiser mind guiding us to better conclusions might be helpful. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
-Tim
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If my two interpretations are too cynical, a wiser mind guiding us to better conclusions might be helpful.
The thought is that with next year's "fresh eyes" we will be able to more wisely revisit this topic!
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Thought everyone might like to take a look at ...
The Definition of "wise":
"Having knowledge or information to discern and properly judge what is true or correct."
All the best,
Richard
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Interpreting in the most positive but unrealistic light I guess it means there is no point making a CAD for System X because they are planning on discontinuing it next year and going back to Steck. :o ;D Somehow I don't think that will be it.
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Interpreting in the most positive but unrealistic light I guess it means there is no point making a CAD for System X because they are planning on discontinuing it next year and going back to Steck. :o ;D Somehow I don't think that will be it.
I put together the arena yesterday and noticed how "steckish" a lot of it was. The cage walls connect through tabs instead of System-X dowels as with Castle 3268 and so does the floor over the imperial grandstands.
Actually, on that subject--there is something worse than System X....
If Playmobil goes to a non-inter-compatible "click-and-lock" connection system. Much of the Arena's imperial grandstand is click-and-lock (ie. once you lock it, don't try to unlock it!).
Huge sheets of non-inter-compatible pieces may be PM's long term drift. Note that with Castle 3268, the arena, and to some degree the rock castle--these sets involve huge single sheets of plastic that are not easily re-usable with other sets.
-Tim
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Interpreting in the most positive but unrealistic light I guess it means there is no point making a CAD for System X because they are planning on discontinuing it next year and going back to Steck. :o ;D Somehow I don't think that will be it.
While I like your thinking, Tim (being a Steck fan, myself :yup:) my interpretation of Richard's hint is that something is in the works which we will hear about next year but he probably can't say more without being indiscreet.
Of course, that shouldn't keep us from talking about what we'd like to see in a software package so that if and when something is ever developed we may be able to influence the design.
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I guess I'll have to go to computer school so I can figure this all out? I know you are talking about a game of some kind. Whatever, it sounds wonderful and very challenging!!
Hope to hear more from all of you about this.
Janice
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I guess I'll have to go to computer school so I can figure this all out? I know you are talking about a game of some kind. Whatever, it sounds wonderful and very challenging!!
Hope to hear more from all of you about this.
Janice
No need to sit in the corner and feel dumb, Janice. It's sort of a game, more like an open-ended puzzle. (The software is already made for Lego, we're talking about a Playmobil version.) It's a way to "build" a 3-dimensional object on the computer screen, by dragging, rotating, and dropping Lego blocks (or other elements) together from a virtual bin. You can then turn your creation any way you want for a closer look or to change things. It's used, among Lego-types, to build things that they don't own the parts for (or that don't exist in those colours, for instance) and then to publish them, so other people can see exactly how to build them and what pieces they'd need. These 3-D objects can be used to make high-quality computer-generated images or even animation, like the movies from Pixar.
What we're getting technical about, is that there is a version of the Lego program where people can create their own 3-D parts by listing the measurements of all the corners and surfaces, the way architects design buildings. So, we're thinking, why not design Playmobil parts - connectable building parts, generally - so we can make these 3-D objects too? Even if Playmobil doesn't create this kind of program for us to use, we can use the Lego one and use Playmobil parts instead of Lego ones. (Or both... or.... anything we can think of!)
If you'd like to try out the Lego version (no need for an architecture degree!) the official version can be downloaded at http://ldd.lego.com . The Gallery is at http://factory.lego.com/gallery/ , to see some amazing finished products. The more complicated user-run version is at http://ldraw.org - takes a bit more know-how to get set up, but has hundreds more parts, because users made them, didn't wait for Lego to supply them!
Hope this makes it a bit more clear. It's pretty exciting, if you get excited about this kind of thing.
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I think Playmobil are saying, "Wait and see, you may be pleasantly surprised."
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I have used the program for Lego and it is really fun, and takes up a lot less space on the floor than dumping out buckets and buckets of legos to find the one right piece. It would be really cool if they made one for playmobil. I could imagine building virtual system x skyscrapers. :love: Maybe that's not a good idea. If I knew what was possible to make with enough of the right pieces, I think I would be tempted to spend even more money. ::)
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Hi,
what do you think about hte pictures ?
Found a thread at playclicks about 3D !
ENJOY here:
http://www.playclicks.com/playforos/index.php?topic=7132.0 (http://www.playclicks.com/playforos/index.php?topic=7132.0)
world greets
Andi
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Wow, they're way ahead of us. My Spanish is much worse than my German, but I did see the link to LDraw in there. Is the poster using the LDraw system, and if so are his parts available for others to download and use?
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Hey I just got back from the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco.
Wow, I was totally wrong about the appeal of Player Generated Content.
A playmobil game that allows users to custom-make their own System X, Steck, and Klickies could make a tidy sum of money if the designer chooses to provide a means for players to re-sell their libraries (and for the host to take a cut of the proceeds) a la something like IMVU.
I personally am a huge advocate of "easy interface, few breaking parts" because my map cad is so hard to work with (it doesn't do what it is supposed to let me do, much less be an easy way to create new stuff).
But, I'm clearly in the minority and with a huge body of people eager to invest time in creating their own content, a game that supports this is definitely a huge plus.
Now, whether that fits Geobra's values (Player generated content brings another host of issues, from filtering "adult-oriented" material to protecting creator's intellectual property to managing the micro-economy (do you let game units be converted to real cash? IMVU doesn't support this.)
We should propose a game model to PM and see if they want to franchise!
(Ha, I'm being extremely optimistic).
-Tim
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Hi Playmofriends,
this theme makes me crazy i search around to make easy 3D Playmo Models,
I download the Ldraw but its not realy easy to use, many progs.
But i find here in germany a 3D Scanner realy cheap the bad one OUT OF STOCK !! :'(
You can save all 3D Files Standart !
ENJOY !
world greets
Andi