PlaymoFriends
General => Report & Review => Topic started by: tonguello on February 23, 2011, 19:04:21
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In the last few months I had the chance to buy several big sets for the first time in my life, but what I'm about to write about also applies for smaller sets. In big boxes is more obvious though.
I noticed that the boxes are oversized, all of them. The contents are always mixed up and running all over the place but if they were carefully accommodated inside boxes in the production line, boxes could be at least 40% smaller, I would say. This would represent better presentations, less broken parts and big savings for the company. So why Playmobil doesn't do it and stick with the idea that the bigger the box the better the set? Is that so?
One small example. How many clickies can you fit in a Special box? There is room for at least 2... even 3 sometimes. OK in this case it can be a strategic decision for tiny boxes are hard to spot in shops etc, but I guess you get my point.
Other example. The moon base set. That is the biggest box I have so far. But all the parts are rather small so why do we need an 80 cmts long box?
Another thing about packaging is what we read a lot in the forum. The "fisher price look". I think the changes made with the Bunny series and the Fairies were a great start. Now the agents and the futuristic theme also changes the shape of the boxes and the design of illustrations. But why not take that to the general production? the new images of the new pirate line is awesome IMO...why not take that as a start to spread all over?
Just one thing.... don't get rid of the classic blue! ;)
So is it time for a change?
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Maybe they make all boxes in a standard size and because of that they have to make them oversize in case they do need the extra space for a specially large part?
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I am a bit frustrating with the boxes too... loose items on huge boxes that take up a lot room ... items get scratches or marks, boxes not easy to store, some i have to throw away in the recycle bins, and that i hate, but the design, appart from the ones you mentioned Gaston, i think remain the same...
Maybe they'll make different boxes for specific themes only, but I doubt they will ever change the basic colours ;)
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I am a bit frustrating with the boxes too... loose items on huge boxes that take up a lot room ... items get scratches or marks, boxes not easy to store, some i have to throw away in the recycle bins, and that i hate, but the design, appart from the ones you mentioned Gaston, i think remain the same...
Maybe they'll make different boxes for specific themes only, but I doubt they will ever change the basic colours ;)
Oh no, I don't mean the colors, but the general display. A little more up to date. Like the new pirate line.
They did on the 90's too. With the rainbow in everybox or the 3 colors sky.... :P
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in regards to the size of boxes - i too have noticed it, especially with the dinosaur sets
my guess is that Playmobil is trying to show the exact scale of figures and animals on the back side in order to prevent customers from being misled about the size of content
when a building is too large to illustrate they include the measurements (at least that happens with the US boxes)
maybe all those carboard boxes are made of recycled paper and that's why PM doesn't care about producing a large packaging?
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Oh no, I don't mean the colors, but the general display. A little more up to date. Like the new pirate line.
They did on the 90's too. With the rainbow in everybox or the 3 colors sky.... :P
Oh right, i see what you mean now!
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It's simple I think. It's a marketing strategy to have these big packages.
For big(ger) packages they can get more money than for small(er)...
Some of the packages are in the same size, I think it's cheaper if they take not for each set another size.
So some sizes are equal.
Second...
I think the new design of the black agents theme is for older children (and modern themes like space or agents). They can't take it for the hole program/all sets.
Daniel
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It's very helpful when you are five years old!! I took my son to Toys R Us on Saturday so that he could spend the money he had earned for being good (he actually gets IOU vouchers which he can cash in when he has enough for whatever he wants).
He soon learned which size of box he needed to be looking at. He now tells me that the HUUUUGE boxes are for Christmas and birthday presents, the middle size boxes are for people who have been extra good between birthday and Christmas and the smaller boxes and the "boxes which hang up" are for lucky children who have their own money to spend.
Also, I'm just trying to find a plastic box to put the circus into (I won't put it into its original box as that won't last five minutes) and it does look like Playmobil put it into the right size box (I don't want to put it into a huge box - I want it to take up less space than it does when it's all put together :lol:)
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That's a good point (not so) bad mum. That's a good way to look at it, but I also tend to agree with Tonguello that a lot of savings on production, shipping, ect., could be saved if the boxes were smaller. Hopefully these savings could be passed onto the consumer ;) which also leads me to think that smaller boxes would be better for those who collect to keep NIB. However, you do get really excited when you purchase a big box :yippee:
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You can get four klickies in a Special box - I just did posting some stuff off to a buyer of one of my auctions.
As regards box sizes, there are standard box sizes which are related in size to the larger "outer" boxes in which the individual boxes go, and these larger "outer" boxes are related in size to the pallets or crates they go in to. And the pallets and crates are designed to fit in the trucks, so standardised box sizes are the reason.
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er...ok sorry but for all of those like me, who live in countries where PM is sold more expensive than in other countries or you just can't find any at all (i.e. Latin America or Asia), big boxes are not so exciting as we have to pay for shipping everytime we want to add something new to our collection :hmm: (right Gastón? :P)
that happened to me with the safari set that came with the cape buffalo and the two zebras...the box of this set was freaking huge for what it really contains, it's ridiculous >:(
big boxes increase significantly int'l shipping costs...i could use that extra money to buy another (small or medium sized) set at least...not to mention the use of room in a carton box or in my bassement
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er...ok sorry but for all of those like me, who live in countries where PM is sold more expensive than in other countries or you just can't find any at all (i.e. Latin America or Asia), big boxes are not so exciting as we have to pay for shipping everytime we want to add something new to our collection :hmm: (right Gastón? :P)
that happened to me with the safari set that came with the cape buffalo and the two zebras...the box of this set was freaking huge for what it really contains, it's ridiculous >:(
big boxes increase significantly int'l shipping costs...i could use that extra money to buy another (small or medium sized) set at least...not to mention the use of room in a carton box or in my bassement
I agree with you Luis ;)
I also understand Gordon's point of you. But if they get rid of the biggest boxes they can fit those same sets in smaller ones and they would still be in the standarized box system. :) We all win.
Lets also see the ecologic side of this. Smaller boxes mean less paper. 0)
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Lets also see the ecologic side of this. Smaller boxes mean less paper. 0)
Yes...Go green! :**:
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I was just thinking about this box size thing today. i think Gordon's answer makes sense, about the standardized sizes. I have actually bought one set that filled the biggest box, and that was the pony ranch set, 4190. So I guess some sets really are that big!
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Sure.... the dollhouses boxes are ok too. Is not for all sets. but for most of them I think.
3667 castle is also ok but the moon base among others, is ridiculous... you culd fit 2 in there. :-\
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Lets also see the ecologic side of this. Smaller boxes mean less paper. 0)
Excellent idea Gaston! Playmbil would be attacking several concerns simultaneously by just changing packaging,.....a win win! :)9
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I agree! Green is the new blue! :lol:
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:love: :love: yes guys!
What about the image design and illustrations? any thoughts? :hmm:
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Yes, I think they could use updating, maybe. I think the current box illustrations look somewhat childish. Yes, I realize they are toys. ::) But they look like they are for very young children, and I think parents pass them by, thinking prescool.
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yeah same feeling here.
sorry t go back to the box sizes but I forgot a very important example!!!
10 days ago a friend from USA sent me this:
Black dragon 3888
Butcher's interior 7457
wedding pianist 4309
yellow submarine 4478
ghost pirate game 7969
2 catalogs
ALL BOXED, accommodated inside the dragon box. ISTG (I swear to God :P) See my point? ;D
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There are more factors driving towards a big box than a small box.
For a small box, economy. Yet cardboard is a cheap and easily recycled material, so a small box doesn't really save much.
For a bigger box, first you need to contain the largest piece of the set. In the case of a Special this may be a long spear, which can't sit diagonally across the box as it would occupy the same space as other parts. Then you want to be able to show exciting illustrations in as large a picture as possible. You want to be able to show this off on the shelf, and catch the eye. It would also be more economical to use several standard box sizes, to reduce retooling and adjustments to the assembly line.
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this is a recurring matter. :hmm:
in the past we have already talked about this and for most of us then the excessive size is a no-no. :'(
too much extra cardboard means more trees are cut down to make it (yes, that's the way cardboard is made), means that more oils is spent moving them around (or actually the excess of "airy" volume they have) etc.
and for all of us b.n.i.b "international" collectors it means a lot of money in shipping costs.
i wish geobra wouldn't be so "competitive" with this "size" issue.
they have great toys and maybe if they would market them more as "jewelry" they could be more successful.
you don't see diamond rings or pearl necklaces boxed in oversized boxes - they usually come in pretty boxes but it's what's inside that counts.
and air doesn't count for much.
and small children are not that stupid and they perfecly understand that air is something they don't need and that they don't like when they open a box of a new toy. ;)
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Well said cachalote! I couldn't agree more! :high5:
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this is a recurring matter. :hmm:
in the past we have already talked about this and for most of us then the excessive size is a no-no. :'(
too much extra cardboard means more trees are cut down to make it (yes, that's the way cardboard is made), means that more oils is spent moving them around (or actually the excess of "airy" volume they have) etc.
and for all of us b.n.i.b "international" collectors it means a lot of money in shipping costs.
i wish geobra wouldn't be so "competitive" with this "size" issue.
they have great toys and maybe if they would market them more as "jewelry" they could be more successful.
you don't see diamond rings or pearl necklaces boxed in oversized boxes - they usually come in pretty boxes but it's what's inside that counts.
and air doesn't count for much.
and small children are not that stupid and they perfecly understand that air is something they don't need and that they don't like when they open a box of a new toy. ;)
When I go to the jewelers the standard hinged ring box will fit about 10 rings (with a normal sized rock) Yes the boxes are small and dainty about 1/2 the size of a special but a ring is a small object . What is nice about the size of the box is it fits perfectly in your hand, like a base ball
most of the pulp wood used for this come from tree farms, and its all recyclable I want bigger boxes so i can use them to decorate the inside of the barn.
I think there is more psychological marketing reasons behind the box sizes - a potential customer expects to get a certain box size when spending $xxx.xx on one box size 30-xx-xxxx
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If Playmobil didn't use standard box sizes, then there production costs for packaging would be increased and probably transport costs too as they would be shipping containers with empty space in them. And Martin is right - the box must be big enough to take the largest part and maybe in an ideal world each set would have a box tailored to its exact size but that would be very expensive to do. But when it comes to boxes, volume and cost do not increase in step. For example, a box 4 inches by 4 inches by 4 inches has a surface area of 96 square inches and a volume of 64 cubic inches. A box 5x5x5 has a surface area of 150 square inches but a volume of 125 cubic inches by increasing the surface area by 54 square inches (1.6 times) you've increased the volume (what the box will hold) by more than double without doubling your costs. And cardboard, as Rasputin has pointed out is very ecofriendly.
I quite accept the point that Gaston and Luis make about international shipping costs rising with the size of the parcel, but Playmobil is usually shipped by the container where such factors don't apply.
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These are all great ideas, but I'm concerned that this is an overall unnecessary waste of resources. PM just needs to reevaluate whether this change being discussed could benefit the planet long term. If you are a nonbox collector, like where I live, we are required to travel 10 miles to a recycling center, wasting gas & time, & most of the time the containers are overflowing causing even more problems on a busy weekend. Most neighbors on my street have stopped hauling their recyclable items due to the inconvience. If you are a MIB collector that saves boxes, the large oversized boxes are not recycled & are a drain to the environment. Does anyone know if the Playmobil packaging is post consumer material, & if it is what percentage?
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Does anyone know if the Playmobil packaging is post consumer material, & if it is what percentage?
Playmobil packaging has been marked with the "Grüner Punkt" (Green Dot) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dot_%28symbol%29) since the late 80's.
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but I'm concerned that this is an overall unnecessary waste of resources.
But if this helps sell toys (due to shelf display) and keeps Playmobil a healthy viable company than I say it is not a waste of precious resources
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Yes, but still, recycled materials are a good thing, and using them doesn't hurt sales at all, maybe even helps in some cases.
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Yes, but still, recycled materials are a good thing, and using them doesn't hurt sales at all, maybe even helps in some cases.
Yes if putting a recycled (post consumer packaging) sticker on a box helps, go for it. Recycling is not going to save much resources, it is a very intensive process. Reusing is the way to go.
Build a house out of old Playmobil boxes like building blocks, stucco the outside and put a metal roof on it .
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Playmobil packaging has been marked with the "Grüner Punkt" (Green Dot) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dot_%28symbol%29) since the late 80's.
Thank you for this explanation on the PM boxes LHAAP. After reading the definition of the symbol it would appear that if Playmobil would shrink packaging sizes it would cost them less in licensing fee's being another win win for them, plus causing lower shipping costs, and preserving the environment. I don't see a positive for continuing to manufacture boxes in this current trend. Plus another off topic issue that is raising consumer costs is the recycle fee's for plastic that they use in production. :-\
The following are quotes from the article explaining the green dot definition.
"In simple terms, the system encourages manufacturers to cut down on packaging as this saves them the cost of licence fees."
"German licence fees are calculated using the weight of packs, each material type used and the volumes of product produced per annum."
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Build a house out of old Playmobil boxes like building blocks, stucco the outside and put a metal roof on it .
:!: Now that's an idea! Now if you could just find a way for the boxes to show, it would be like some kind of utopia, wouldn't it? :lol:
like where I live, we are required to travel 10 miles to a recycling center, wasting gas & time, & most of the time the containers are overflowing causing even more problems on a busy weekend. Most neighbors on my street have stopped hauling their recyclable items due to the inconvience.
You bring up an interesting point here, BB. In my area, remembering to recycle is just a matter of putting it in the right bin. We have recycling pick-up once a week. But for some people, it isn't so easy, and so they don't bother to do it. I forget sometimes that there isn't a recycle truck that comes around everywhere.
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Thank you for this explanation on the PM boxes LHAAP. After reading the definition of the symbol it would appear that if Playmobil would shrink packaging sizes it would cost them less in licensing fee's being another win win for them, plus causing lower shipping costs, and preserving the environment. I don't see a positive for continuing to manufacture boxes in this current trend. Plus another off topic issue that is raising consumer costs is the recycle fee's for plastic that they use in production. :-\
"In simple terms, the system encourages manufacturers to cut down on packaging as this saves them the cost of licence fees."
"German licence fees are calculated using the weight of packs, each material type used and the volumes of product produced per annum."
If that is how it reads than I think this is having a negative impact on the toy itself. Playmobil seems to still want to make the big boxes with lots of air space. In the past they would put in the dividers to keep the items from banging around. Now if they want the same size box but they are rewarded to use less than the first thing to go is the dividers. Now if you read Martins reviews he notices the banging around is scratching up the sets giving the consumer a negative first impression
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Yes, that is the case with the whale set, 4489, that I just bought. In there loose and banging around, and the bag had even come open, spilling all the small parts everywhere.
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You bring up an interesting point here, BB. In my area, remembering to recycle is just a matter of putting it in the right bin. We have recycling pick-up once a week. But for some people, it isn't so easy, and so they don't bother to do it. I forget sometimes that there isn't a recycle truck that comes around everywhere.
Exactly bb! When we moved into our house recently, believe it or not instead of one trash pickup provider serving the area, there were several running the same route on different days. When we inquired on price & recycle pickup with each company, none offered recycle pickup services. Talk about waste of resources, there are at least 3 mornings out of the week you are woke up to a different diesel burning huge compactor truck doing their duties on our street.
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That's crazy. ??? They really should offer recycling services. Is it a rather rural area where you are?
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If that is how it reads than I think this is having a negative impact on the toy itself. Playmobil seems to still want to make the big boxes with lots of air space. In the past they would put in the dividers to keep the items from banging around. Now if they want the same size box but they are rewarded to use less than the first thing to go is the dividers. Now if you read Martins reviews he notices the banging around is scratching up the sets giving the consumer a negative first impression
That is another great idea showing their disregard to impliment effective change! They have used less dividers causing damage to the contents. Instead of adequate proactive packaging helping international shipping costs, boxes sized to contents, less resource wastefulness, things aren't changing for the better !
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That's crazy. ??? They really should offer recycling services. Is it a rather rural area where you are?
Yes, we are considered rural. Hence multiple providers, all private.
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Ah, I see. Well that makes sense, then, because usually in rural areas there isn't recycling pick-up. At least you get trash pick-up!