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General => Report & Review => Topic started by: playmofire on March 19, 2010, 21:41:58

Title: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 19, 2010, 21:41:58
Well, today I smuggled in the new 4820 turntable ladder fire engine and managed to do a few preliminary photos before Diane came home.  In a number of areas the 4820 and the 4821 are the same, for example, the cab unit, and some of the equipment has been reviewed elsewhere, so this review won't be as long as the 4821 review.  Where appropriate, I'll put in a link to other reviews.  For today, though, we just deal with the box pictures, in the order front, back and each side.  (The end pictures are the front one at a reduced size.)

Further posts will appear from Sunday as I have another opportunity to do some more photos then.  However, having only looked at the model in the box and handled it a bit unassembled, I can say that I think it is the best turntable ladder appliance Playmobil have ever made.

Having seen those side views on the web, I think I'll redo them, concentrating on the pictures themselves.  This is what comes of working too quickly.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: Richard on March 19, 2010, 22:04:06


This looks like a really beautiful fire engine, Gordon!

The last time Susan and I were in London I remember seeing a fire engine that to me (not being an expert in fire equipment) that looked a lot like this splendid vehicle from Playmobil. Does the London fire brigade have anything at all that resembles this vehicle?

BTW ... How do you keep getting Diane to leave the house? ...  :klickygrin:

All the best,
Richard
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: Bill Blackhurst on March 19, 2010, 23:34:14
I like the looks of this new ladder appliance, but I'm used to 80% of the ladder trucks in the USA being equipped with dual rear tandem's as the early 3525, 3879, & 3182 Playmobil ladder trucks. I'd like it alot more if the 4820 was equipped the same way.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: WarriorOfToys on March 20, 2010, 02:46:24
Cool fire engine!
I can't wait to see the rest of the reveiw...
The swivel ladder is reallt neat.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 20, 2010, 17:33:50

This looks like a really beautiful fire engine, Gordon!

The last time Susan and I were in London I remember seeing a fire engine that to me (not being an expert in fire equipment) that looked a lot like this splendid vehicle from Playmobil. Does the London fire brigade have anything at all that resembles this vehicle?

BTW ... How do you keep getting Diane to leave the house? ...  :klickygrin:

All the best,
Richard


London Fire Brigade does have turntable ladder appliances still but they would be on Mercedes chassis, but quite similar to this one.

Diane had to go to the hospital for the morning (nothing serious I'm glad to say, it was planned some time ago).
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 20, 2010, 18:23:54
I like the looks of this new ladder appliance, but I'm used to 80% of the ladder trucks in the USA being equipped with dual rear tandem's as the early 3525, 3879, & 3182 Playmobil ladder trucks. I'd like it alot more if the 4820 was equipped the same way.

The three axle turntable ladder is very rare in Europe.  Where vehicles are three axle ones they are usually aerial ladder platorms (ALPs) or prime movers or specialist industrial machines.  Usually, the TLs (turntable ladders) have twin rear wheels which largely serve the same purpose.  In fact, in the UK turntable ladders are getting fewer and fewer as brigades go for aerial ladder platorms (ALPs).

Am I right in saying that the US ladder trucks also have a water tank?  European ladders don't have water tanks, relying on a good hydrant supply or taking water via a pumper.  A few have built in pumps of their own. 

There are new developments in the UK called CARPs (Combined Aerial Rescue Pumps) which have had a mixed success.  These are a single vehicle which combines the role of pump (with water tank and aerial rescue appliance).  A company called TVAC which had a good record in building fire engines on other makers' chassis had orders for some of these some years ago when it was taken over by one of these firms which sets out to be all things to all men in the fire brigade sector.  Whether management changes caused problems or what, but the end result was that for two brigades (South Yorkshire and Humberside) when the CARPs finally arrived they were illegal as they were overweight.  They were returned on a batch basis to the makers for modification at the maker's expense,but just after the first few had been modified the new owners of TVAC put TVAC into administration (i.e. closed it down) so now the taxpayer is having to foot the bill!  (Isn't it funny how private enterprise is always complaining about the level of taxation but is quite happy to pass the bill on to the taxpayer when things go wrong or ask the governent for "government money" - i.e. taxpayer's money - when they are faced by economic problems?)  CARPs built by other suppliers have been OK.  CARPs are three axle appliances because of their size and weight.  (Before CARPs there were a few brigades with ARPs - aerial rescue pumps - which were similar to CARPs; some of these were two and some three axle but none were particularly successful.)
Here are some links which might interest you, Bill:

http://www.graeme.kirkwood.btinternet.co.uk/SFB/ARP.htm

http://www.graeme.kirkwood6.btinternet.co.uk/Photos/SFB/ARP.htm

http://www.angloco.co.uk/zoomimage.asp?vehicleid=215

Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: Richard on March 20, 2010, 20:01:19



Diane had to go to the hospital for the morning (nothing serious I'm glad to say, it was planned some time ago).




Glad to read that it's nothing serious, Gordon!
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 20, 2010, 20:11:43


Glad to read that it's nothing serious, Gordon!


Thanks, Richard.  She went in at 07:30 and I collected her at 12:30, more or less fighting fit.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: Richard on March 20, 2010, 22:47:29



Thanks, Richard.  She went in at 07:30 and I collected her at 12:30, more or less fighting fit.



Five hours is a long time to be in hospital!
However, five hours isn't much time at all for Playmobil ...  :klickygrin:

Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 21, 2010, 07:09:04


Five hours is a long time to be in hospital!
However, five hours isn't much time at all for Playmobil ...  :klickygrin:



Well, there was waiting time at the start as there was an order of patients to follow and then time to recover from the anaesthetic in that time.  I was actually told I could collect about 11:30 so the extra hour she was waiting for me.  At one time the whole thing would probably have meant two or maybe three days in.

As for time with Playmobil, I've got maybe 90 minutes this morning while she's off out.  ;D
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: Richard on March 21, 2010, 18:15:04



As for time with Playmobil, I've got maybe 90 minutes this morning while she's off out.  ;D



Wonder why the ladies always seem to think that we have nothing to do? ...  ::)
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 22, 2010, 14:59:17
Well, I'll continue with the review by posting better pictures of the box sides.  As youcan see, they are nothing exciting compared with the pictures that used to be on the boxes.  It would be good if Playmobil went back to these, putting a "warning" on the box such as "Play suggestions" as you see on cereal packets.  What I called box side A and box side C have the capability of being exciting pictures with a little bit of background and foreground addition, e.g. burning buildings in the distance and water runs in the foreground.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 22, 2010, 15:09:40
A look at some detail now.

The turntable part of the ladder unit and the non-extending ladder section are entirely new, as is the rescue cage.  I haven't been able to check the extending ladder section against the previous versions, but it looks unchanged to me.

On the rear, left side of the ladder there is now a solid section incorporating a dial to show the angle of elevation of the ladder.  In real life, the sections either side of this appear not to be solid but cables of some sort and these are represented well on the model.  This feature (and the design of the rescue cage) suggest we are dealing with a Magirus ladder unit.

Instead of the ratchet and clip support for the ladder when raised, there is now a pair of substantial hydraulic cylinders to hold the ladder in place.  There is some sort of ratchet mechanism involved inside these judging by the noise as the ladder is raised and lowered.

Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 22, 2010, 15:13:31
The control area of the ladder is also entirely new with a detachable seat and dashboard.  There is a sticker showing technical readout to fit on the dashboard and, as you can, I didn't get this on right first time, hence my post in the Technical Forum on PF.  If the worst comes to the worst, I can always order a new set of stickers form DS.

The ladder operator's seat in held in place with a red System-X connector.

Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 22, 2010, 15:24:13
On the opposite side of the ladder turntable, there is provision for carrying a smoke ventilator fan and a generator.  Again, this arrangement points to a Magirus ladder unit.  The generator is held in place by a yellow System-X connector, while the ventilator fan clips over a "handle" fitting.

You can find more about the ventilator fan here:

http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=3568.0

Lastly, to round this session off there is a scan of the extensive stickers.

I need to find time for more photos before I can continue.

Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: WarriorOfToys on March 22, 2010, 23:14:36
I like how Playmobil covered up the ratchet by putting in those fack pumps!
That is really cool, and really completes the ladder.
Great reveiw, I look forward to more!
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 30, 2010, 16:25:56
Thank you Warrioroftoys.   Here's the rest of the review, and I'll continue with the equipment.  The first photo is a close-up of the generator showing the two waterproof outlets and waterproof on/off switch.  I've got a spare of these already as it will make a good fusebox/power outlet in a workshop.

The stretcher on its base which attaches to the rescue cage has its own section in the stowage locker, although strangely enough the base and the stowage area are not the same shape; I had expected the base to slide in the slots of the stowage shelf.

Unfortunately, the rest of the stowage is not so successful.  The hose reel holder is too wide to fit in across the locker area and so has to go in lengthways and this means that it takes up more room than it need.  The traffic cones and the Holmatro chainsaw fit in the left had side, but not very neatly.

I'll show some alternative storage ideas later in the topic.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 30, 2010, 16:39:43
As I've mentioned the stretcher, I'll look at it in a bit more detail.  It's the by now familiar rescue stretcher which has been used on the 3879 and 4182 turntable ladder units.  However, the base by which it is attached to the rescue cage has been brought into the System-X age.  On the underside of the base, offset to one side is a System-X projection which pushes into a bracket projecting from the left hand top of the cage.  The ladder can be brought down below the horizontal for access to the cage to make for easy easy attachment and removal of the stretcher.  A later photo will show the bracket on the cage.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 30, 2010, 16:48:24
Continuing with the cage, it is a new design and lacks the strengthening members on the bottom.  It does, however, feel perfectly sturdy for the job.  The tilting mechanism is also new, the ratchet system (which often meant that the cage could not be set horizontal) has been replaced by a clutch mechanism which gives virtually infinite adjustment.  The monitor holder and control panel are the same as the previous versions I think, although I haven't had time to actually check this.

Bill expressed concern from some early photos at the toy fair as to whether the cage could take two crew like the previous version.  The answer is that it can.

In the photo of the cage at ground level, you can see the bracket for the stretcher.

When the stretcher is not is use, a System-X clip can be put into the bracket to hold the monitor hose in place.  I am also considering a way to fix a length of hose to the extending section of the ladder as is the case in real life.

Break for dinner now, so see you all later.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 30, 2010, 18:00:56
Access to the working area of the vehicle is via a set of steps, one set either side, with a neat pair of handholds.

Two crew are provided, one a female.  It seems strange them providing two crew here but only one with the 4821 pump.

Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 30, 2010, 18:13:51
Before looking at some ideas for minor custom work, I'll pull loose ends together with some over all photos.  The front view is quiet dramatic, although (being over critical) parts of the rescue cage obscure the view ahead.  Nonetheless, it looks good.  I have seen a custom on klickywelt where the Playmobil sticker has been replaced by a copy of the Magirus design used on the cage base, and this looks very effective.

The rear view is a bit disappointing, partly because I haven't got the rear light stickers on straight!  Ignoring that, it would benefit from plastic insert lights, just as would the pump.  One problem is that to a following vehicle no blue lights are visible, unlike the earlier turntable ladders.

Left and right side views look good, although, as with the pump, I'm not keen on the blue panel.  The RC aerial is clearly visible on the right hand side, behind the storage locker.

Another thing I'm not keen on are all the stickers and so for this review I've put on the minimum possible.  The rear sticker I will remove and I may remove the stickers on the jacks, replacing them by something simpler, maybe an orange faceted "jewel" on each jack.  (I forgot to mention that the jacks are a new design for the fire brigade and are lowered and locked in place by pulling the base plate down and then twisting it a quarter turn towards the body.

Apart from these minor quibbles and the concern about the poor storage arrangements, I very much like this new turntable ladder.  It looks better than the 3879 and 4182 versions which were based on a Mercedes Econic design and, to me, never really looked the job.  So a good buy at just unde £40 in the UK, considerably cheaper than the 4182 it replaces.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: flatcat on March 30, 2010, 18:24:40
Thanks for the excellent review Gordon :)9

I got one of these this afternoon, and like you I am disappointed with the storage, but I like the accessories it comes with and the overall shape and design of it. I am also annoyed that I got a couple of stickers on slightly wonky and generally hate it when a set like this requires so many >:(

I feel that both engines are incredibly overpriced for what they are, but I am happy with them. Have you got the 4822 fire car yet? I also got one of them today and it is not terribly exciting :(
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 30, 2010, 18:49:21
A look now at solving the storage shortcomings.

One way is to fit a red System-X connector to the rear panel and attach the hose reel unit from the 4825 set as noodwachter72 has done.  This has the advantage that the hydrant and hydrant key can also be carried on the hose reel trolley, so solving another storage problem.  An alternative to this is to fit the hose reel carrier of the sort which comes with the model to the rear panel, again using a red System-X connector.  Either of these frees up space in the storage locker and securely stores the hose reel.  I will, however, use the red hose reel carrier and hose reel if I follow this route.

Another way to solve the hose storage problem is to simply use a hose reel and no carrier as this combination will fit into the storage locker (although it tends to roll out of its own accord when opening the locker!).  This is illustrated in the first photo.  This makes it a bit easier to store the traffic cones and chainsaw and a petrol can can also be stowed (second photo).

I probably favour fitting a hose reel of some sort at the rear and also fixing a length of hose from the monitor to the bottom of the extending ladder section as that way there will be enough hose to allow the ladder to be fully extended and the truck connected to a hydrant.

I'm also looking to store a portable pump in the locker as this removes the need to rely on hydrant pressure for operating the monitor or having the ladder accompanied everywhere by a support vehicle in the form of a pump.  A pump will fit in, although it means the traffic cones have to be carried outside. (The chainsaw and petrol can fit in OK on the other side.

A further, and favoured, variation is to fit one of the narrow "slide-outs" from the 4820.  It fits tightly against the sides (although a couple of brackets to support it would really be needed) but fouls the pump very slightly.  However, a bit of sanding down to reduce the height of the sides should solve this problem; I'll keep people informed.  The slide-out can carry a warning triangle, large and small fire axes and other small equipment.

Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 30, 2010, 18:58:42
Finally, two photos showing possible storage without the portable pump and a possible solution to the rear blue light omission.  This would require drilling a hole behind the ladder operator's seat to take the light pole.

Finally, a very welcome development, the built-up model in the box and with space to spare for extra items.  Well done, Playmobil, on this.

Thank you for your time in reading this review, and I hope that you found it useful and interesting.

Oh, and one thing I forgot - a winch would be useful on this model.  Carefully used, a winch can turn a turntable ladder into a crane, so I'll see about fitting one and trying it out.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 30, 2010, 19:09:26
Thanks for the excellent review Gordon :)9

I got one of these this afternoon, and like you I am disappointed with the storage, but I like the accessories it comes with and the overall shape and design of it. I am also annoyed that I got a couple of stickers on slightly wonky and generally hate it when a set like this requires so many >:(

I feel that both engines are incredibly overpriced for what they are, but I am happy with them. Have you got the 4822 fire car yet? I also got one of them today and it is not terribly exciting :(

Thank you, Damo.

I'll be buying some spare sets of stickers from DS so you can have replacements from those if you wish.

I thought the pricing wasn't bad.  The 3880 pump when it came out here in 1997 was £25 and the 3879 turntable ladder £35.  The later 3182 ladder in 2002 went up to £40 plus and ended at about £50.  Overall, after 13 years the 4820 is £4/£5 more than it's 1997 equivalent and cheaper than its replacement and offers better detail in the front lights and a roof and more advanced working blue lights, plus some other changes. 
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: Wolf Knight on March 30, 2010, 19:14:36
Once again Gordon you are tempting me really bad to go and get me some of these.... ;D ;D ;D!!!

Really nice preview!! I love your close up pictures!!

Cheers,

Panos
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 30, 2010, 19:21:48
Once again Gordon you are tempting me really bad to go and get me some of these.... ;D ;D ;D!!!

Really nice preview!! I love your close up pictures!!

Cheers,

Panos


Thank you, Panos, you're very kind.  Now go to the bank and then to the toyshop!   ;D
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: flatcat on March 30, 2010, 19:43:17
I'll be buying some spare sets of stickers from DS so you can have replacements from those if you wish.

I thought the pricing wasn't bad.  The 3880 pump when it came out here in 1997 was £25 and the 3879 turntable ladder £35.  The later 3182 ladder in 2002 went up to £40 plus and ended at about £50.  Overall, after 13 years the 4820 is £4/£5 more than it's 1997 equivalent and cheaper than its replacement and offers better detail in the front lights and a roof and more advanced working blue lights, plus some other changes. 

Thanks, that would be great :)

I suppose the pricing does seem fair considering the older models' prices. I remember seeing the 3182 in The Entertainer a couple of years ago at the £50 and wondering 'who's ever going to pay that much for it?' :-\
I also got a free carry set from TRU with my 2 sets I bought today because I spent over £25 - I got the magic 4777 set because I liked the princess and Unicorns :rainbow:

Luckily I had some vouchers from school which went towards the pumper, but all these prices are causing a real strain on my wallet considering that I am supposed to be starting to save up for driving lessons, college etc 8}
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on March 30, 2010, 20:46:07
Have you got the 4822 fire car yet? I also got one of them today and it is not terribly exciting :(

I forgot to answer this, Damo; sorry. 

I haven't looked closely at this yet but I agree with you that it doesn't seem terribly exciting.  The lack of working blue lights is a shame, but against that it is more in scale with the fire engines themselves.  For the moment, I'm running a brigade with a mix of old and new vehicles, the 4820 and 4821 with 3880s, maybe a 3181 (but it is over scale so I'm not happy with it), maybe a Smart for fire prevention and a reserve 3781.  I've also two customs, a 4x4 and a saloon, which can fulfil the role of the 4822.  The 4x4 would probably run without the winch and with the new low profile blue light bar.  I may try fitting the small blue flashers to the grille of the saloon.  Here are links to them:

http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=1528.0

http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=1579.msg17581;topicseen#msg17581
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: flatcat on March 30, 2010, 21:10:02
I forgot to answer this, Damo; sorry. 

I haven't looked closely at this yet but I agree with you that it doesn't seem terribly exciting.  The lack of working blue lights is a shame, but against that it is more in scale with the fire engines themselves.  For the moment, I'm running a brigade with a mix of old and new vehicles, the 4820 and 4821 with 3880s, maybe a 3181 (but it is over scale so I'm not happy with it), maybe a Smart for fire prevention and a reserve 3781.  I've also two customs, a 4x4 and a saloon, which can fulfil the role of the 4822.  The 4x4 would probably run without the winch and with the new low profile blue light bar.  I may try fitting the small blue flashers to the grille of the saloon.  Here are links to them:

http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=1528.0

http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=1579.msg17581;topicseen#msg17581

I really admire your customs Gordon, and I think that your two customs here are exquisite and could easily pass as originals :wow: :wow: :wow:

I think the problem with the new car 4822 is that there is nothing new here, apart from a suprise when I opened the box up was that the fire chief has grey hair which I have seen no other recent klicky having :hmm:
The wheels also look too small in my opinion, but I love the suspension and the fact that it matches the other new engines :love:
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: WarriorOfToys on March 31, 2010, 00:14:15
Thanks again for the great reveiw PlaymoFire! :)
And thank you for the custom/variations for the storage.
I too was very tempted to buy one when I was at Target today...
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on April 02, 2010, 18:18:36
I really admire your customs Gordon, and I think that your two customs here are exquisite and could easily pass as originals :wow: :wow: :wow:

I think the problem with the new car 4822 is that there is nothing new here, apart from a suprise when I opened the box up was that the fire chief has grey hair which I have seen no other recent klicky having :hmm:
The wheels also look too small in my opinion, but I love the suspension and the fact that it matches the other new engines :love:

Thank you for your comliments, flatcat.

I may well add the 4822 to my collection later after investigating whether it can be converted to take the working roof lights.
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: flatcat on April 02, 2010, 19:33:51
Thank you for your comliments, flatcat.

I may well add the 4822 to my collection later after investigating whether it can be converted to take the working roof lights.

From looking at the roof, it would be possible to cut a hole in it with a sword saw or something similar to put a flashing light unit in, although this wouldn't leave any room inside for the klicky as there is only just enough room now :hmm:

A more advanced flashing light system might need to be thought through :-\
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on April 02, 2010, 20:06:03
From looking at the roof, it would be possible to cut a hole in it with a sword saw or something similar to put a flashing light unit in, although this wouldn't leave any room inside for the klicky as there is only just enough room now :hmm:

A more advanced flashing light system might need to be thought through :-\

Thanks for that info, Damo.  :wave:
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: Richard on April 04, 2010, 03:06:14


Playmobil should put you in their marketing department, Gordon!

Your great reviews (and customs) always tempt me to start collecting Playmobil firefighter and rescue sets!

Thanks for taking the time to show us the best of this theme.

All the best,
Richard
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: playmofire on April 04, 2010, 07:22:16

Playmobil should put you in their marketing department, Gordon!

Your great reviews (and customs) always tempt me to start collecting Playmobil firefighter and rescue sets!

Thanks for taking the time to show us the best of this theme.

All the best,
Richard

Thank you for your kind words, Richard.  I must say a job in marketing with Playmobil would be nice.  You may want to mention me when you see Mr. Brandstatter!   :)
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: Richard on April 04, 2010, 12:41:12



I must say a job in marketing with Playmobil would be nice.  You may want to mention me when you see Mr. Brandstatter!   :)



Be careful what you wish for, Gordon ...  :klickygrin:
Title: Re: 4820 turntable ladder fire engine review
Post by: Gepetto on April 15, 2010, 03:05:00
Excellent review Gordon, many thanks! The storage dilemma does seem odd and all the wasted space on the turntable deck seems a shame. Putting the traffic cones on the turntable deck would make sense since they would not be in the way while in transit and once on site could be used so again they are not in the way, I like your use of the drawer and will be interested to see what you come up with!  :wave:


Gepetto