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General => Brainstorming For Playmobil => Topic started by: socrates on May 23, 2010, 14:20:15

Title: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 23, 2010, 14:20:15
My dear friends, this is a reply to Richard's call STECK DESIGNER WANTED (http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=4514.msg58294#msg58294).
I thought a lot about this recently and used these free days to write them all up. It became quite a lot, but I still hope enough people will read it to discuss it afterwards with me. :)

Why a new generation of Playmo Building-Systems?

First of all, they do not really have a building system. They have defined part standards twice (steck and sysX), but I feel like their main intention was to reuse moulds and to ensure a replacement service instead of really introducing a modular system.
But I do believe that such a new system would be a definit win-win situation, for PM as well as for us! PM would be able to bind kids much longer on their toys, just like Lego. These days the kids stop playing with playmobil at younger age than years ago, this is why playmo gets brighter and more comic-like as they start to focus on kids in the range of 5-12 (my son (8) is already made about the new agents theme but kind of did not care about the romans...)...  And we would also benefit from a more free building system:

I would like to present you my first few ideas on this way and would love to start a discussion here in this thread why and what we would like to change with such a new (overworked) system.

What's wrong with the existing systems?

I spent a lot of time thinking what is the answer to this question. Why would I want to have a new system?!
First of all, this implies there is something wrong with the existing ones.
I guess we should also have an intense discussion on this topic. I suspect several people want to have steck back. But I do not really know why?! Is it for nostalgic reasons? I am looking forward to read your opinion on that!

Well, from my point of view there is not really much that I am missing in both systems.
The only thing is that there are several parts missing/not existing/not available anymore.
Well, and Steck has some sensible parts. The anchors of the floor pieces tend to brake...
On the other hand, SysX sometimes lacks a certain aesthetic, especially due to the SysX-holes.

What else is wrong?
  ???
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 23, 2010, 14:21:56
Steck vs. SysX

Not really different to the point above is maybe the direct comparison between the two systems. Well, But I do not think this is very fruitful and I would wish to keep it out of the discussions in this thread.

Playmofire already made a comprehensive list of the pros and cons of both systems in the initial thread. Here just some comments on that: It is often said that SysX is fiddling to build due to the connectors, but once they are in place, I do not see a big difference in constucting with steck or sysX. I agree though that sysX-part do look a little clumsy compared to steck.

But from a construction point of perspective, I strongly believe there barely is anything you can only build with Steck and that you can't build with SysX.

See the images below: Just as an example, I took two stone wall end pieces, and they really are similar. And a little bit into response to the question why we would need a steck-sysX-connector, I placed a steck stairway next to a sysX-building. Unfortunately, there is no connector to bring both systems together. ;)

Still not convinced? Well, just take a look at these two SysX sets:
4435 - Barbarian Ruin (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4435)
3269 - Rock Castle (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=3269)

I like them very much as they show, how playmobil already was on its way to completely substitute steck with SysX.
But they left this way by introducing pseudo-steck and macro-pieces that cannot be used as an extension to other SysX-constructions anymore.
Here I think a striking example is the spaniards fortress
4294 - Soldier Fortress with Lighthouse (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4294)

I was more than happy when I saw this set the first time, but then there was just pure disappointment to see that almost none of the new pieces can be used with old buildings like e.g. 3112 - Naval Stronghold (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=3112).

Thus, in the following, I will refer to SysX as the system to be extended. They could also reintroduce a renewed Steck-System, but to be honest, I do not see, why they should do it. Right now, while most steck-buildings are discontinued, almost every second set comes with SysX-components, and they really have the cool advantage of these replaceble connectors that basically make them indestrucable. I like that very much!

Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 23, 2010, 14:24:27
The "mathematics" of SysX or any building system

Well, Richard was asking for a mathematician to solve the problem of a new building system. I don't know if we would not be better of with asking an architect. Well, as a software architect I might incorporate both sides a little bit, so I decided to give it a try:
I came up with three principal points a successful building system should fulfill:
1. completeness
2. scalability
3. universality


1. completeness

I am not sure whether or not this is the right term to be used here, but I am refering here to the basic feature that you should have a building solution for any construction you can imagine. Like with Lego bricks I should be able to basically build everything. Well, lets restrict on buildings though. But this means, I should be able to construct a shopping mall just as well as the taj mahal using the basic parts. It should be possible to place the parts on a certain set of angels and there should be counterparts, as for outer and inner roof corners. So far, several sysX (and steck) building parts are violating the universality of the building system: Lets take for example the set
4400 - Post Office (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4400&pics=on)
It includes a new roof system, nice and usable for other buildings also. But the roof is only available with an outer roof panel (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-5020), dramatically limiting the use of these roof parts. Just the same holds for the connecting strips (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-4980) not only in this set. They are important pieces to stabilize wall elements when not using another base plate element. But it is not possible to build them in complex structures, as there are only two pieces, a straight one (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-4990) and a corner strip (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-4980). E.g. it is impossible to put them into a simple square as there typically is only one connector in sysX-base plates (see attached sketch).

2. scalability

In short: The small parts together should be like the big parts and a big part should be as being put together by small parts.
Lets stay with the post office. There are base plates in several sizes, here we have a small one (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-03-6410) and a big base plates (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-03-6590). Three of the small ones would result into one big one. But obviously, there are some more holes in the build together than in the big piece. We also have a basic base plate (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-04-6630), which is 2x2 units big. Well then, the scalable parts would need to look like in my attached sketch. With much more holes that finally would enable to place walls in all possible configurations.

Okay, it is obvious why there are less holes on the big boards: Because all these holes look ugly. I agree. But without these holes it is not scalable. To solve this for SysX or a new system, I suggest to design some new connectors that allo "half" connectors to fill the holes. Like the toasts are doing in steck buildings. I also sketched them. Simply, add a little relief and place the connecting moulds a little deeper into the surface. Then a new connector can attach there.
The cool thing about my idea and these new connectors is that you basically could use all your old sysX parts and combine them into the new system just by exchanging the connectors. :) 

3. universality

This is a key feature that made playmobil a success in the first place. Each constuction worker could become an indian or a knight could become a cowboy etc. Well, sadly enough, the klickies are not like that anymore, but this is off-topic for now. ;)
Universality is reached to some degrees, but the designers at playmobil should focus much more on this principal feature, as this is what makes a knights fan to buy a zoo set. Here are some examples and ideas to this point: Definitely get rid of these huge parts. Well, it might be difficult to set up a castle then, but, hey, kids learn a lot of statics by building up a castle and they have great common time (on christmas, birthday or other occasions) with their parents! I think, this rather an advantage than a drawback, buildings should not be fully setup in ten minutes!!! I stressed this set before, but take another look at the beautiful rock castle (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=3269): There are some great parts in it like this connector (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-7620) or this archway (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-7640), but on the other hand there are parts that completely undermine the universality of the building, see e.g. the tower top (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-7720), a perfectly missed opportunity to introduce a nice set of castle wall tops, and of course this crazy piece (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-6960)... (I am out of words for this one)

Well, but they also had some good ideas, e.g. the universal cabinets (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-4180), also found in the post office set. You can extend them easily into a treasure chamber (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4255), a butchers shop (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4412) shelve or simply as a cabinet in your police station (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4263&pics=on). This is a great universality and this could be further extended with DS-equipement to fill your shelves (like they did with the sets butcher (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4412) barber and barber shop (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4413)).
Also, they already offer great extensions. But they should not be limited to set extensions. Rather they should extend them e.g. to a roof piece assortment, bags with connectors, a bag with sysX pieces useful to setup roman civilian buildings...
If they restrict themselve on a unique system, they can reuse several sets for these themes. I am especially thinking of the new holiday home and the new zoo. It would be so cool to have sets in the DS to extend the holiday home (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4857) to a ancient roman house and the asian zoo buildings (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4852) into something historical asian. :)

So, this should be all for now! :)

Looking forward reading your thoughts on that.

best,
socrates
:egypt:
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 23, 2010, 14:29:05
uuuhhh, ahhh, one final remark:
I do think now that we definitely can only make suggestions. Coming up with a flawless and complete new building system would be a huge project.  ::)

Whatever we are doing here, there has to go a lot more brain into it before playmo is coming up with a new product. But still I would be happy to have contributed... ;D

This is why I tried to keep everything as minimal invasive as possible.  :)

best,
socrates
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wolf Knight on May 23, 2010, 15:11:45
Hello Socrates!!! Great work you have done here!!! You certainly kept yourself busy!!!!

Very important ideas and questions you raise in this thread! I like your organisation and you suggestions!
The more we are geeting into this the more I realise its not possible to connect steck and system x without changing the molds, or creating new one...and probably that is what needs to done is the two systems mix together! And true, for a system x lover new functional pieces must be produced.

As for why some of us love steck so much and want to see it hit the selves again:

Firstly, true it is for nostalgic reasons.

Secondly, it is the greatest building system with immensely endless possibilities of extending, recreating, customising, expanding, a structure (mainly a medivel one)

Thirdly, there are many pieces that were designed just once or twice (and used just once or twice) that fit great into projects and are not produced anymore...pieces that can help in these customisations or recreations...

Fourthly, many adult collectors will buy the newly produced steck sets, or the add-ons from DS, and their money will go strait to playmobil, not to ridiculus expensive priced sellers on ebay!!!

Other than that, I am happy with all the newer versions of playmobil building! I likes system x and could actually combine (in a limited way thats true) more than one 3112 naval stronghold to create a bigger one.... Or used three sets of western system x fortresses to build a bigger western fortress...more rooms, more buildings, more klickies to put on!

Finally, I love the lihthouse and the dragoland sets as they can stand out as something unique....

So my conclusions are 1. If we still want to combine the two systems playmobil must find a new mold that can combine both 2. reproduce older steck pieces for steck lovers 3. produce different and more functional parts for system x and make it easier for paretns and children!
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmo1989 on May 23, 2010, 17:10:22
great work socrates !!!!! personally i don't like sysx because if you take it apart it is difficult to bult it again withought the instuctions and also the  " holes" that the buildings have is the worst thing , i like the steck because many medieval and succesfull toys have been many with this system about these new system that the dragonland and the new castles are made look like for little kids i don'tknow things about them because i don't have any but i look at the  toys and the buildings that i don't like , i'am open to a new system that we will all love and appretiate that you will make, or will   make the start  :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 23, 2010, 20:56:16
As for why some of us love steck so much and want to see it hit the selves again:

Firstly, true it is for nostalgic reasons.

Secondly, it is the greatest building system with immensely endless possibilities of extending, recreating, customising, expanding, a structure (mainly a medivel one)

Thirdly, there are many pieces that were designed just once or twice (and used just once or twice) that fit great into projects and are not produced anymore...pieces that can help in these customisations or recreations...

Fourthly, many adult collectors will buy the newly produced steck sets, or the add-ons from DS, and their money will go strait to playmobil, not to ridiculus expensive priced sellers on ebay!!!

So my conclusions are 1. If we still want to combine the two systems playmobil must find a new mold that can combine both 2. reproduce older steck pieces for steck lovers 3. produce different and more functional parts for system x and make it easier for paretns and children!

Wolf Knight, thank you for your thoughtful reply.
I just disagree with point 4: Playmobil will not get rich by rereleasing old steck sets again. They do not calculate in magnitudes of thousand, but when they start their machines, typically they produce hundreds of thousands of pieces. And this is far bigger than our community. And speaking of a construction system, they would even have to mould new steck pieces to make it a universal building system.  Don't get me wrong, I do like steck. I do not really care whether I build with steck or sysX, but honestly, I just see it much more realistic to pimp sysX into something like steck 3.0 instead of complaining to playmobil about that we want to have steck back. ;)

And to go back to the topic of this thread: Do you really think, the possibilities are "endless" (as you said in point 2), or is there anything were you would think, they could improve something? Make a crucial, so far missing part?!

best,
socrates
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmo1989 on May 23, 2010, 21:27:18
do these new castles sell?? i mean if people buy them? why they stopped producing steck in the years they didn't sell so much?
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wolf Knight on May 23, 2010, 21:44:28
Wolf Knight, thank you for your thoughtful reply.
I just disagree with point 4: Playmobil will not get rich by rereleasing old steck sets again. They do not calculate in magnitudes of thousand, but when they start their machines, typically they produce hundreds of thousands of pieces. And this is far bigger than our community. And speaking of a construction system, they would even have to mould new steck pieces to make it a universal building system.  Don't get me wrong, I do like steck. I do not really care whether I build with steck or sysX, but honestly, I just see it much more realistic to pimp sysX into something like steck 3.0 instead of complaining to playmobil about that we want to have steck back. ;)

And to go back to the topic of this thread: Do you really think, the possibilities are "endless" (as you said in point 2), or is there anything were you would think, they could improve something? Make a crucial, so far missing part?!

best,
socrates


Good and strong points there socrates!
Once they start those machines, as you said, they will not care who buys them...and they are a toy making company after all. Design and themes change with the demands of time, society, culture... and a parent must not get a huge headache when helping his or her son or daughter with assembly!
Still, i'd like to know that when i go into a toystore i can get out with two or three steck castles...Or contact ds and get a great collection of add ons that are not into main production any more...

What i would like to see improved in steck castles are the floors and a four way connector must be introduced!!! It would be easier for custom designing...and for the structure design and building itself.

As for the endless posibilities, i'll attach two pictures i saw in this forum and kept them for future reference! Terribly sorry from the people who post them in the first place but i cannot remember where i saw them...

Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmo1989 on May 23, 2010, 21:55:27
wow that is a castle !!!!!!!!  the man must be an achitect or something
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 23, 2010, 22:44:24
As for the endless posibilities, i'll attach two pictures i saw in this forum and kept them for future reference! Terribly sorry from the people who post them in the first place but i cannot remember where i saw them...

I would define "endless possibilities" more like this:  :P
http://www.klickywelt.de/viewtopic.php?t=20508
http://www.klickywelt.de/viewtopic.php?t=34910
http://www.klickywelt.de/viewtopic.php?t=40067
http://www.klickywelt.de/viewtopic.php?t=29167
http://www.klickywelt.de/viewtopic.php?t=26326
http://www.klickywelt.de/viewtopic.php?t=36128
http://www.klickywelt.de/viewtopic.php?t=39642

And please be aware that the castle of schokoman includes several customized parts, while the others mostly stuck on already existing sysX-parts...

And again, I do not want to argue against steck. But I want to have a system to combine my castles with airport buildings if I like to.  :cloud9:

best,
socrates
 
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wolf Knight on May 23, 2010, 23:11:31
Sorry socrates, the links require a login in and i am not a member in klickywelt....

---follow up----

ok managed to see some brief pictures of schokoman's work!!! Triliant work!! Very skilled craftsman!!!
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 24, 2010, 12:19:38
Sorry socrates, the links require a login in and i am not a member in klickywelt....

ahh, forgot about this. You should become a member, though. ;)
Here some of the pictures so that you get the idea.
point is, once again, both systems are quite sophisticated and enable a lot already. But some parts are missing, like e.g. the floor pieces in steck (I agree with wolf knight on this)...

So, enjoy the show and to everybody: Tell us, what else are you missing in the current steck/sysX-universe...

best,
socrates
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wolf Knight on May 24, 2010, 12:24:07
wow wow wow wow wow!!! I have no words for these!!! just...wow wow wow wow wow wow :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 24, 2010, 12:30:32
hey, I have some more. ;)  :lol:

(the two marvellous oriental buildings are made by vauban@klickywelt as well!)

glad you like it. now think what all would be possible with a complete and unversal system supported by playmo!
 8-)

best,
socrates
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wolf Knight on May 24, 2010, 13:35:00
love the oriental buildings...but this harbor....its as if it came out of a viking movie!!!! Lovely real lovely!!! the amout of work put in those is maginicent!! so is the result!!!
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: flatcat on May 24, 2010, 13:49:35
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Those buildings are just amazing!!!

Thanks for sharing them Socrates :)
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmo1989 on May 24, 2010, 15:42:54
i'am speachless  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o very beautifull work !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Jimbo on May 24, 2010, 16:31:17
 Awesome buildings! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: cachalote on May 24, 2010, 22:23:54
(to get back to the subject)
hello socrates.  :wave:
i read your post without being logged-in and decided to think a little bit about the subject without seeing your drawings.  ^-^
15 minutes later i came up with a system-x module that would solve everything (it doesn't of course but it will with some work).  ::)
i then logged in (this way i was certain not to be influenced by your solution) and discovered that we essentially thought of the same.  8}
this could mean that the direction is right (or the opposite, that we both equally stupid).  ;)
i guess we both have a rather good knowledge of geometry (i am an architect) and that we saw the same problems.
one thing i see different from you is the connector problem.
the way i see it there is no way that we can "dig" deeper to host a "double" negative hole (a "square" one followed by a "round" one) and still be able to use the old x-connectors or x-parts (in the drawing G/D means ground level.  :'(
this "new" longer x, just like the one you came up with, is the only way to "camouflage" the holes we will not need.
your 3 principles are, of course, correct.
do you think it will be easy to try and "lift" a 3rd dimension (Z) with the same principles.  ???
one last thing - i decided to add a fifth central hole in the "square" system to allow for "strange" (rocks) or "isolated" parts (masts, cranes) to be fit.  :hmm:
this is different from what you designed but maybe if i check the scale of the system it will proove as a wrong option.
  :-[
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Giorginetto on May 25, 2010, 12:50:06
After attempting to create some useful and meaningful bridging using design software in proper scale i really havent concluded to anytning more partical or meaningful that the fellows forum memebrs have already done so .

Also my (declared) obsession with steck pretty much obstracts me from seeing system x with a favourable view in any way. I have a few system x sets ( modern, western, pirates, viking ) and i have to say i dont like them at all . Look so ugly .... thats the primary reason why i havent bought any system x castles despite my love for mediaval playmobil which account for 60% of my total playmobil collection . I really dont see playmoibl brining back steck though it would be nice to see some sets with commonly used parts as previously discussed offered through spares catalogues , thast the least playmoibl should do for old fans and serious collectors that equal probably 100 average buyers a year  ( at least .. a wild guess ...  :lol: :lol: :lol:). I really despise system x and even more these new clip systems,  we are all entitled to our opinions here, i wouldnt buy any of htese sets , only after the old steck sets and thank god for ebay and for the many 3666s and other sets that are available still. I am going to write a letter to playmobil addressed to their head of marketing and ask to bring a spares set of steck pieces for collectors . There is never enought steck !!!! And to be honest i wont mix the awesome  steck with system x or clip system. That would be a 'sin 'for a classico playmobil fan from the 70s like me . I shall leave this upon the new generations to do and enjoy   :wave: :wave:
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmofire on May 25, 2010, 13:55:54
A very thorough analysis of the position, Socrates, which raises some serious questions.
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Martin Milner on May 25, 2010, 14:09:43
Thanks for the pictures of some fantastic creations using both Steck and System X.

The System X ones are sadly marred by the hideous and numerous empty connector holes, a problem which could be easily solved by Playmobil right now with a color-matched plug with some appropriate facade - a Tudor rose, a blank shield (possibly with optional stickers matching existing shield designs) a gargoyle or angel, a waterspout, a column top, a section of gutter, a hook for a hanging basket, a lamp bracket, or something like that. The Playmobil designers need to look at some real buildings and see what's what. The holes could be used to great effect to hold a frieze like the Parthenon in an ancient Greek temple set, or a Aztec style carvings for a South American lost temple for the adventure theme.  

i.e. plug those holes, and you have a decent modular system to build with, if parts are made available in the right colors and shapes. We can live with the annoying red and yellow connectors because they're hidden.

As Giorginetto says, a collector who is building a unique structure using a modular Playmobil system is spending the equivalent of hundreds of normal buyers, and Playmobil should recognise this fact. Their new clip system creates a rugged building that can be carried in one hand if it needs to be moved, but makes next to no allowance for additions and enhancements to the original building, and for that reason sets using the system must be selling in far smaller numbers than either Steck or System X sets ever did.
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmo1989 on May 25, 2010, 18:13:01
thats the primary reason why i havent bought any system x castles despite my love for mediaval playmobil which account for 60%

and don't buy any i have this existing lion castle from 2005 (i think that's when it's realesed )it'so away from reality and looks like a toy  imagine the walls are almost the high of a klicky . the only nice thing it has is the dishign of it's house and the lion flags!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wolf Knight on May 25, 2010, 19:20:05
I will agree with Giorginetto and Martin an all accounts!!! System x is great (and has great potentials) but steck is indeed greater!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 25, 2010, 20:26:12
I will agree with Giorginetto and Martin an all accounts!!! System x is great (and has great potentials) but steck is indeed greater!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

 :hmm:
do I repeat myself when I claim that the intention of this thread is not to decide about whether steck or sysX is the best but how to improve the (any) system?
So, you already mentioned the floor pieces that you think they could be improved. What else could be improved, what new parts would you desire?
(Next to the fact that everything is great in steck-universe...  ;) )

best,
socrates
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 25, 2010, 20:36:48
(to get back to the subject)
  :-[

thanks.  :)9  I thought I already lost this thread...  ;D

(to get back to the subject)
i then logged in (this way i was certain not to be influenced by your solution) and discovered that we essentially thought of the same.  8}
this could mean that the direction is right (or the opposite, that we both equally stupid).  ;)
i guess we both have a rather good knowledge of geometry (i am an architect) and that we saw the same problems.
one thing i see different from you is the connector problem.
the way i see it there is no way that we can "dig" deeper to host a "double" negative hole (a "square" one followed by a "round" one) and still be able to use the old x-connectors or x-parts (in the drawing G/D means ground level.  :'(
this "new" longer x, just like the one you came up with, is the only way to "camouflage" the holes we will not need.
your 3 principles are, of course, correct.
do you think it will be easy to try and "lift" a 3rd dimension (Z) with the same principles.  ???
one last thing - i decided to add a fifth central hole in the "square" system to allow for "strange" (rocks) or "isolated" parts (masts, cranes) to be fit.  :hmm:
this is different from what you designed but maybe if i check the scale of the system it will proove as a wrong option.
  :-[

assuming that great minds think alike (and we are not both stupid), I appreciate that you came to the same solution. Well, I double checked the sysX base plates and I still think, they can be deepened. Well, it doesn't have to be double negative but lets say 1.25 negative. the addition is more for cosmetical reason, does not have to be full sized.

I have to admit that I am not sure what do you mean with a third dimension?  ???

I like the idea of the functional hole in the middle. Maybe it could also serve for 45 degree connections. I thought about this option as well, a cornerpiece that brakes the 90 degree limit. ;)
But I found it would be difficult with the standard walls (the connector would become pretty long).  :(

best,
socrates
 
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 25, 2010, 20:42:21
The System X ones are sadly marred by the hideous and numerous empty connector holes, a problem which could be easily solved by Playmobil right now with a color-matched plug with some appropriate facade - a Tudor rose, a blank shield (possibly with optional stickers matching existing shield designs) a gargoyle or angel, a waterspout, a column top, a section of gutter, a hook for a hanging basket, a lamp bracket, or something like that. The Playmobil designers need to look at some real buildings and see what's what. The holes could be used to great effect to hold a frieze like the Parthenon in an ancient Greek temple set, or a Aztec style carvings for a South American lost temple for the adventure theme.  

Martin, this is a great suggestion. Themed facade pieces might be a perfect solution for the outside holes. Playmobil implicitely confessed this problem in adding stickers to the fairy tale castles to hide the holes... ;)
They should like this idea very much.

best,
socrates
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Martin Milner on May 25, 2010, 21:17:26
Martin, this is a great suggestion. Themed facade pieces might be a perfect solution for the outside holes. Playmobil implicitely confessed this problem in adding stickers to the fairy tale castles to hide the holes... ;)
They should like this idea very much.

best,
socrates

Thanks Socrates!

It occurred to me that the "facade" pieces can also be in 2- 3- 4- or more hole lengths, not just to cover a single hole, since we know how wide and high a modular wall section is. The facasde doesn't have to be fancy, just a strip of matching color and texture that pops into and covers the holes in the building walls, horizontally and vertically. If Playmobil produced these and released them as a retro-fitting DS item, I think they'd sell by the bucketload to collectors.

The floor holes are trickier to hide, which is why they tried to eliminate some unused holes in larger floor sections, but how about a textured "carpet"? Just a thin section of rubbery plastic, textured like a stone floor (or whatever is suitable for a particular set). This would be of softer rubbery plastic than the regular flooring, with or without nubs to clip into the floor holes to secure it in place. This could be produced on a roll and cut to size by the customer.

The biggest issue most people have with System X (apart from the fact it's not Steck and thus can't be combined with that system) is the empty sockets, so if Playmobil produced something to enhance the buildings using those holes we would welcome their initiative.

Another idea for single hole pluggers - bits of greenery. Small plant seeds always find their way into nooks and crannies, and any wall or outside floor that has been around for more than a year will have some green bits starting to sprout.


The other issue I have with System X is, why no round towers? Let's have a DS add-on round tower to enhance our system X castles with.
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: cachalote on May 26, 2010, 01:09:34
hello socrates and hello martin,  :wave:
(the 3rd dimension)
by third dimension i mean height - we have only dealed with the "horizontal" problem.
(double negative)
with "double" i meant to holes in succession - one for the "round" connector the other on top for the "square" plate.
1,25 or any other number except 1 poses the same problem: the "round" connector has to be buried deeper than the old one.
(the holes)
this will have to be delt with either "camouflaging" the holes or by adding, as martin rightfuly said, by adding some kinf of decoration.
maybe we should look at he holes in system-x as something incredibly good and full of possibilities instead of something bad.
(geometry)
45º walls could fit socrates and maybe the central hole could be produced in that "direction".
the problem lies on how do they "arrive" at their ends...
(facades and dimensions)
this is what needs to be adressed right now.
i don't have the measures for the base plates (could you measure them socrates) or the height of system-x walls (i keep all my "stone" buidings" in my weekend house).
the modularity that you speak socrates should also exist in the walls maybe with extra holes as martin suggests.
unlike lego, a brick system is not what (i think) we want for playmobil but some kind of fixed heights that could be multiplied is more or less essential.
maybe the problem here is how to combine middle floors that have to be narrower than the base plates.
(steck)
just like the "ancient" system-x, the steck will cease to exist, faint memories of playmobil's ancient times.
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wolf Knight on May 26, 2010, 07:08:56
:hmm:
do I repeat myself when I claim that the intention of this thread is not to decide about whether steck or sysX is the best but how to improve the (any) system?
So, you already mentioned the floor pieces that you think they could be improved. What else could be improved, what new parts would you desire?
(Next to the fact that everything is great in steck-universe...  ;) )

best,
socrates


Yes sorry socrates...i was carried away again!!! :-[ :-[ :-[ I'll read the rest of the posts and modify this message...

...After reading the rest...

I love all the ideas for system x. If playmobil does not intend to bring back steck, (is this confirmed btw? because its being discussed a lot) I am happy with all the renovations all of you have proposed!

As far as steck is concerned, appart from the floors, i'd like to see a four way connector being introduced. These are the most important changes that need to take place.



Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: WarriorOfToys on May 27, 2010, 16:22:42
To improve steck you could add a four way connector,
And I would also love to see 45 degree connectors along with 135 degree connectors.
This would require two new platforms however, and they may not look quite as nice.
Also, new round tower pieces would be nice,
Ones that would fit with the castle even at the same height as the other walls.

As for SysX... Well I'm with Giorginetto.
You could do everything in the pictures of SysX with steck pieces, And in all it would look nicer.
The only thing I can't see you doing with current steck pieces is the top of the Tajma Hall.

I know this is not what this thread is about,
But Steck really is a better system and Playmobil would do well by bringing it back.
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmo1989 on May 27, 2010, 18:38:26
To improve steck you could add a four way connector,
And I would also love to see 45 degree connectors along with 135 degree connectors.
This would require two new platforms however, and they may not look quite as nice.
Also, new round tower pieces would be nice,
Ones that would fit with the castle even at the same height as the other walls.

As for SysX... Well I'm with Giorginetto.
You could do everything in the pictures of SysX with steck pieces, And in all it would look nicer.
The only thing I can't see you doing with current steck pieces is the top of the Tajma Hall.

I know this is not what this thread is about,
But Steck really is a better system and Playmobil would do well by bringing it back.

they have no other chance !!!! these new castles are horrible and the sales will show it!! and the syx is problematic for castles so they will bring back steck or make a new system !!!!
 
the sales of the systemx 3268 lion castle were good  ??
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 27, 2010, 21:26:18

(the 3rd dimension) by third dimension i mean height - we have only dealed with the "horizontal" problem.
(double negative) with "double" i meant to holes in succession - one for the "round" connector the other on top for the "square" plate. 1,25 or any other number except 1 poses the same problem: the "round" connector has to be buried deeper than the old one.

(the holes) this will have to be delt with either "camouflaging" the holes or by adding, as martin rightfuly said, by adding some kinf of decoration. maybe we should look at he holes in system-x as something incredibly good and full of possibilities instead of something bad.
(geometry)
45º walls could fit socrates and maybe the central hole could be produced in that "direction".
the problem lies on how do they "arrive" at their ends...
(facades and dimensions)
this is what needs to be adressed right now.
i don't have the measures for the base plates (could you measure them socrates) or the height of system-x walls (i keep all my "stone" buidings" in my weekend house).
the modularity that you speak socrates should also exist in the walls maybe with extra holes as martin suggests.


Okay, I think we have four problems to solve:
1. Holes on the facade...
Possible solution: Could be solved (and pimped) by a series of decorations as suggested by Martin.
2. Holes in the floor... (become even more critical as we suggest to add some more)
Possible solution: A new series of connectors (1.25 negativ).
3. Flexible angles (esp. 45', 135' turns)
Possible solution: Yet another hole into the ground floor. (details are missing yet.)
4. The third dimension (how to get scalability in the third dimension)
???

Well, I would like to motivate tonight again my approach for problem 2.
I am not sure, whether or not I was clear with my ideas, but I suggest to extend locally the hole system on the ground floors by the introduction of a new sysX connector that can fit exactly into the old wall elements like the old one did. So, the old parts can be reused for 100%. The new floor pieces will have more holes and these holes have another plateau before reaching the connector hole. That way another plug can be introduced to actuall fill the holes when not needed. In a way, these plugs are something like SysX-plugs.

I tried to sketch this with inkscape. It worked better than I expected. :)
Maybe this illustrates my idea more clearly.

best,
socrates
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: cachalote on May 28, 2010, 00:27:10
i think i understand you totally socrates and i think everyone else does.
when i thought more or less on the same problem i thought at the same time on the walls - that's why i duplicated the 1.25 system on both heights (up and down) for the "new" 2 way connector.
my solution would of course mean new pices for everything and not the possibility to use the "old" walls.
it would mean thicker elements maybe, if base plates are to be used also with columns in their downside (does the word exist?).
i don't really know what to think.
to be able to use a lot of "old" elements would be great.
... but the need to "fill" holes is already present on some of the walls and in all the visible "thiknesses" of the base plates (specially when they are used as pavements above ground level)...
and a full modular system should imply holes in every facade at fixed "half-heights" or "quarter/3quarter heights" levels...
... so many problems.
... or maybe there is no perfect solution?
maybe my "radical" solution could be somthing like this (like the drawing) with a cube as the base module
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wolf Knight on May 28, 2010, 04:32:44
So these new holes and -a-few-inch-bigger plugs will result in a better rigitity of the whole building right? Something that does not come apart easily when lifting up and moving?
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 28, 2010, 07:53:50
So these new holes and -a-few-inch-bigger plugs will result in a better rigitity of the whole building right? Something that does not come apart easily when lifting up and moving?

I read this here already several times... Actually, I never had a problem with rigidness of sysX buildings. I suspect you are talking about castles walls without ground floor (like from 3268 - Lion Castle (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=3268))? Because the buildings, like e.g. 3269 - Rock Castle (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=3269) are stable enough to move?

But, no, Wolf Knight, these new connectors are not improving stability at all, they use the same force as the plugging part did not change. We are just brainstorming about what a universal system should have from a mathematical point of view. As this would result into even more holes in sysX, my new connectors are just an idea to get the hole-on-the-floor problem solved.

best,
socrates
 
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wolf Knight on May 28, 2010, 09:00:39
I read this here already several times... Actually, I never had a problem with rigidness of sysX buildings. I suspect you are talking about castles walls without ground floor (like from 3268 - Lion Castle (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=3268))? Because the buildings, like e.g. 3269 - Rock Castle (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=3269) are stable enough to move?

But, no, Wolf Knight, these new connectors are not improving stability at all, they use the same force as the plugging part did not change. We are just brainstorming about what a universal system should have from a mathematical point of view. As this would result into even more holes in sysX, my new connectors are just an idea to get the hole-on-the-floor problem solved.

best,
socrates
 

Oh right I get it now! Sorry am really slow in mathematics... :-[ :-[

To go back to the castles, Yes the Lion castle is fairly unstable...I don't even know how many times it was accidentaly dismantled as I picked it up...(of course why should anyone pick it up on one go?) But the rock castle of very stable!! I have moved it lots of time with no problem!!!

The 3112 naval stronghold was also very stable...hmm... i probably generalise based on the experience of the lion castle...the human mind tends to keep the bad memories more vivid...
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Indianna on May 28, 2010, 12:01:58
Possible solution for the SystemX holes:  Playmobil could make plugs to fill the holes from a soft plastic material (perhaps similar to the stuff they use for unicorn horns.)  The plugs could be in assorted matching and contrasting colors.  When it becomes necessary to remove the plugs, a screwdriver-type blade could be slipped in along the edge to pop them out. 
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Giorginetto on May 28, 2010, 19:02:39
Please please someone tell playmoibil to make a 4 way playmobil connector for steck !!! needed for more grand desings !!!!! surely it w
ont cost them that much to make !!!!!  :)
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmofire on May 28, 2010, 19:12:19
Please please someone tell playmoibil to make a 4 way playmobil connector for steck !!! needed for more grand desings !!!!! surely it w
ont cost them that much to make !!!!!  :)

They used to so they have the moulds.
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Gustavo on May 28, 2010, 19:23:11
(There's some of my thoughts written down here:
http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=4644.msg61148#msg61148 )

It should be pretty too ... Look at the attached pictures ...

"Nobody" is perfect: I miss a ground for the steck buildings ... It's useful; and I miss a pretty building for the system X buildings: the holes make the system look awful ... "legolike", come on! ...

Steck at least is pretty. And one of the central ideas of playmobil is to be good looking.
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: cachalote on May 28, 2010, 19:26:40
:wow:my god indianna, how it helps to have you on board.
 :) you are quite right.
 :-[ i guess the rest of us got carried away by mechanics forgetting the obvious solution - yours.
soft rubber plugs could do the trick - small deep ones for the "yellow" holes and big flat ones for the "red" holes.
i really don't know what kind of rubber though.
rubber has a way of cracking with time and to dilate or contract easily with variations of temperature.
if this can be solved (do we have a chemistry engineer amongst us?) i can see just another problem - how can they fit tightly without "bellyng" out and, at the same time be rigid and extratable.

all this solves a big problem - there will be no need to send th the garbage the all system of plates, walls and connectors.
but maybe new parts can be added - smaller horizontal plates that fit inside the walls instead of outside, and walls with extra holes to receive this plates on their vertical faces instead of their vertical ones.
this could be introduced gradually so that, in a few years, the x-system would be perfect and good-looking.
 ;)
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmofire on May 28, 2010, 19:34:50
But aren't more and more bits and pieces being added to the system?  Rubber plugs to fill the holes that have to be taken out when the piece is re-used for a different designed building.  Multiple connectors, too.  Steck is simple to join, that is a strength.  It is simple in what it offers in terms of types of walls, that is a weakness.  But combine the first, ease of joining, to a wider range of wall types and designs and you have something very different.

Here is an idea I'm working on:

http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=4677.0
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 28, 2010, 22:42:04
i think i understand you totally socrates and i think everyone else does.
when i thought more or less on the same problem i thought at the same time on the walls - that's why i duplicated the 1.25 system on both heights (up and down) for the "new" 2 way connector.
my solution would of course mean new pices for everything and not the possibility to use the "old" walls.
it would mean thicker elements maybe, if base plates are to be used also with columns in their downside (does the word exist?).
i don't really know what to think.
to be able to use a lot of "old" elements would be great.
... but the need to "fill" holes is already present on some of the walls and in all the visible "thiknesses" of the base plates (specially when they are used as pavements above ground level)...
and a full modular system should imply holes in every facade at fixed "half-heights" or "quarter/3quarter heights" levels...
... so many problems.
... or maybe there is no perfect solution?
maybe my "radical" solution could be somthing like this (like the drawing) with a cube as the base module


I like your sketch, but I think, these are too much holes. ;)
Especially, I think this would infere with the static of the pieces...
There is a  special piece (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-66-9770) from the space series with lots of holes... Well, a connector like this would not work with the new plugs...

best,
socrates
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on May 28, 2010, 22:46:44
Possible solution for the SystemX holes:  Playmobil could make plugs to fill the holes from a soft plastic material (perhaps similar to the stuff they use for unicorn horns.)  The plugs could be in assorted matching and contrasting colors.  When it becomes necessary to remove the plugs, a screwdriver-type blade could be slipped in along the edge to pop them out. 

This is a very good idea, Indianna!  :wave:
For the rigid plugs I thought you could just push them out from the backside. Then they would be reusable. For soft plugs I would be afraid that they would deform and might be too soft for overweight klickies... ;)
Soft would be definitely an option as well. :)

best,
socrates
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: cachalote on May 29, 2010, 01:05:49
well, i am just a bnib collector (although i take out and assemble all my sets) and i really don't think i will ever use playmobil's custom-construction potential.  :-[

when i directed my attention to system-x it was just because of 2 things:
- playmobil is not apparently interested in going back to steck;  ::)
- steck has no base plates and it has no potential to create walls with different "inside and "ouside" finishes (i think iths geometrically impossible).  :'(

having cleared my position i must add that i just looked at system-x the way i look at modular buildings when i have to create one in real" life (i am an architect).  8}
so, maybe i exagerated in the number of holes.  :hmm:
but i think that an "independent" ground grid that could be attached both horizontally to ground plates and vertically to walls would be a better "playing" system-x.  :yup:
together with indianna's brilliant plugs (something that playmobil - through ds - could sell in bags filled with them) i think we could arrive to a well-balanced solution.  :love:

a final word just to say that my only problem with system x is the need to complete one of the sides of the 7718 set (it came that way from the factory, with its "x-holed" "thickness" partially exposed  >:() and the gradually-growing-in-size parts - that are making the most recent sets very quick to assemble, depriving me of that pleasure.  >:(
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Indianna on May 29, 2010, 05:17:04
Gordon is quite correct to point out that plugs are just more and more fussy little parts to have to deal with.   :)  I was thinking that the plugs would be optional - available through Direct Service as Cachalote suggests - but not necessarily to be included with each boxed set.  The idea is that they would be available as an add-on for folks who want them for a finished look on their projects.  I like Socrates's comment about rigid plugs that could be pushed out from behind - do any of the current SystemX base plates or wall pieces have holes on the back or underside that would accomodate some sort of pushing device?
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Giorginetto on May 29, 2010, 06:49:32
I am sorry for re stating my love for steck my hatred towards system x  but these holes everywhere make them very unrealistic and the only sets they were good for were the space stations etc . the latest pirates , royal prison for example looks aweful in system x , holes, holes and nothuing but holes. Steck houses are realistic and steck desings are easier to make. We should all sign a PARTITION and give it to playmobil to bring back steck !!!!!!  :)
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: flatcat on May 29, 2010, 07:04:13
We should all sign a PARTITION and give it to playmobil to bring back steck !!!!!!  :)

A PETITION might be better ;)

I haven't said anything yet, partly due to the fact that I don't think Playmobil needs anymore construction systems. Steck works well for castles and medieval structures, and System X works well for modern town buildings, shops etc.

As much as I despise System X, I do think it brings modern, clean lines to modern buildings (ignoring the horrid holes), and Steck give a nice oldy worldy feel for castles and medieval buildings which in my opinion, no other toy has achieved this.

I just think that sticking to these two systems (no stupid clicking systems) and just bringing out new sets and new exciting parts is the way forward.

But this is just my opinion :)
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmofire on May 29, 2010, 08:58:42
Gordon is quite correct to point out that plugs are just more and more fussy little parts to have to deal with.   :)  I was thinking that the plugs would be optional - available through Direct Service as Cachalote suggests - but not necessarily to be included with each boxed set.  The idea is that they would be available as an add-on for folks who want them for a finished look on their projects.  I like Socrates's comment about rigid plugs that could be pushed out from behind - do any of the current SystemX base plates or wall pieces have holes on the back or underside that would accomodate some sort of pushing device?

I hadn't realised the plugs were to be an option from DS.  I wonder, though, if enough would be sold to make them worthwhile for Playmobil to produce?  Alternatively, might Playmobil offer them in such quantities (e.g. in bags of 100) that many people would want to buy them?
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Indianna on May 29, 2010, 16:10:17
I hadn't realised the plugs were to be an option from DS.  I wonder, though, if enough would be sold to make them worthwhile for Playmobil to produce?  Alternatively, might Playmobil offer them in such quantities (e.g. in bags of 100) that many people would want to buy them?

Another great point, Gordon!  There really is no way that we can predict anything with certainty.  As a money-making company, Playmobil routinely takes risks in deciding what to make and sell.  If they choose to listen to our ideas, that gives them additional information to consider when making those decisions - how much weight they give to our ideas is ultimately up to them. 

Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Justindo on May 29, 2010, 16:38:35
It would be nice for us, and possibly profitable for them, if Playmobil did a run of certain castle Steck pieces to be sold through Direct Service, but I have to agree that Playmobil seems to be done with Steck as far as new sets go.  Should we therefore be focusing on System X?  I know it's not a perfect system, but neither is Steck.  I really do like the Steck plug idea!
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: WarriorOfToys on June 02, 2010, 16:29:07
I think a pettition would work well, just to see where we all stand.
Also we can tell how popular each system is. :)
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: cachalote on October 02, 2010, 11:33:41
i asked sylvia  :love: to move this thread to this section so that it could create some synergies with:

"system x designer wanted" - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=5760.0
"steck designer wanted" - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=4514.0
"another idea for a new Playmobil construction system" - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=4677.0

let´s see if it will work, steck and system-x together.  ;)
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Vauban on July 11, 2011, 15:29:44
I hope I'm right here  ;)

My thoughts about a new construction system are:

There is no need for a new system. There are two really good systems, but both need new parts (or for steck: new sets  ;)) - and not these big parts you can use only in one kind for an building.

Look at Sys-X: you can realise with this system all kinds of buildings from the Romans to the modern life. But it wood be a great help, if there wood be a wall element with the scale of the  4x4 square  (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-05-6220) baseplate. The higher walls are just one unit to small.

There are not enough different roof-parts available. With the "Roof wall section, triangular with round window  (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-28-6750)opening"-part of the church in a stone-optic like the castles you could build at least medieval (stone-)houses. And I dream about a real framework-house in sys-x with "small" parts not like  Farmhouse with Market Stall  (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?set=5120) or the  forrest lodge  (http://www.playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?set=4207). These parts were horrible, to big and not usable in differant ways.

And naturally we need all kinds of rounded walls and roofs.

The (main) way for sys-x should be a wall-connector-system like the steck-system and as an addition many of small parts to give an individual view of the buildings.

To the steck-sys: there are quiet similar thoughts: different roof-parts are needed, 45°/ 135°-connectors and a frameworks-wall with windows AND with male connectors, more round parts, a half-high wall and so on, and so on...

Greetings

Vauban
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wolf Knight on July 11, 2011, 15:32:39
Its an interesting assesment Volker! You are right, there are things missing... maybe we should ask ''what is sytem x lacking'' insted of demanding a change back in old system or developing a new one! Very good perspective!
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: bonniebeth on July 11, 2011, 15:33:06
wow, those are three beautiful examples of the wonderful buildings that can be created with the two existing building systems!
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: playmofire on July 11, 2011, 17:50:17
You make a good case, Volker, and those buildings are outstanding.  And, Panos, you ask a very pertinent question. 
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Indianna on July 11, 2011, 19:29:45
. . . There is no need for a new system. There are two really good systems, but both need new parts (or for steck: new sets  ;)) - and not these big parts you can use only in one kind for an building. . .

I agree with you 100%, Vauban!  I think that both Steck AND SystemX are good building systems, as your beautiful buildings perfectly illustrate.  What is needed, as you say, are some new parts as well as the ability to order spare parts of existing pieces.  If Playmobil sees that people will buy these, then we may eventually persuade them that Playmobil is a building system as well as a "role play" toy.

If we are able to request parts, even just a few to begin with (such as the gray stone 4-way connector, for example, which has already had a fan-based campaign to have it produced) then that can potentially build into a larger enterprise. 
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Tiermann on July 11, 2011, 19:33:16
After having been to the meetings in Germany and heard Playmobil management's views on the subject I think our best strategy would be to encourage add-ons that have the existing parts most desired. The Bakery is a great first step as there are parts there that have not been available for a long time. There have been attempts to make a plan for a tower set that would include the maximum number of different desired parts. In the longer term I hope we can encourage through the PCC and social media a contest for such a design with the prize being that Playmobil would put it into the add-ons catalog for a year and see how sales go.
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Indianna on July 11, 2011, 19:37:16
Tim, while you were in Zirndorf, did you hear anything about the gray 4-way connector campaign?  Do you think they might be willing to produce a new part like that? 
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: socrates on July 11, 2011, 21:54:49
Tim, while you were in Zirndorf, did you hear anything about the gray 4-way connector campaign?  Do you think they might be willing to produce a new part like that? 

They are even mentioned in the protocol...  :P
Judith is going to check the possibility to produce them with the old molds.
So, obviously they knew the topic but did not do any action so far.  ::)

best,
socrates
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: cachalote on July 12, 2011, 02:14:47
:) it's wonderful to read this "old" thread and to see how "we" collectors can offer playmobil.
 :'( it's also a bit sad to know how geobra seems not to be willing to reinforce thir systems building potential.
in fact they seem to have decided to go the other way - easier and even pre-assembled sets.
maybe they can wise up in the future and realize that a "smart" traditional toy should be "special" in all its potential.
,,, and to be able to build with playmobil parts (lile vauban so wonderfully does) should be regarded for all ages as an asset.
if a virtual 3d-modelling scheme (like sir pleamos so wonderfully uses) could be in place maybe this "way" could be improved.
kids love computers and tend to "neglect" the difference between "virtual" and "real".
to offer a computerized system could be a way to "bring" them into a "real" (and also buidable) system.  ;)
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Giorginetto on July 12, 2011, 10:00:04
 :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

I doubt playmobil will ever try and market their products / sets as a direct head on replacement for lego. I think the market orientation from playmobil lines is different from lego though surely they share themes ( pirates, mediaval etc ) but they are toy lines different all together . As mist know I am a great supporter for steck and adore that system religiously , the new bakery is a great move from playmobil as its a response to us collectors and our ' needs' , bravo once again to the pilot team and its elected members . Personally i am pretty certain it wont be very long we see the 4 way connector out as a ' gift' to us collectors. A big company like Playmobil takes its time for such decisions , production shceduling etc , their New Product Development Cycle is in years I am sure not months ( once they decide on a theme / set and the time its on the shelves ) and thats usually  the case with toy manufacturers from the limited knowledge i have . either way we should be very pleased that the connector is on the cards. As far as full steck systems or a different construction system my view is i dont know . i think depending on the bakery sucess ( somehow i feel its doing well on sales ... from what i read and see on ebay ) that will determine if other steck sets will be produced again. Playmobil had its reason for going into system x and the clip system and even if i dont like them as much as steck i cant expect a company with a huge marketing department to know less than me or any collector. after all we surely represent a small fraction of their global sales and we should be thank of what has been achieved by the pilot group and its representatives . With all due respect cachalote i sense a lot of dissapointment and bitterness in your emails about the progress so far sir. Do you really believe realistically we can achieve ' more' and why being so judgmental of the work that has taken place so far? i think its very commentable  what has been achieved and its always very very easy for a third person to the elected ppilot repsresentatives even to teh pilot group to be so judgemental sir .. perhaps ( personal view ) its best to tone dowenn a bit your judgemment and so many proposals as we will end up micxing reality with dreaming . sorry sir i am using strong words ( but you are also ) but  your posts begin to sound like a broken record repeating over and over the same comments/ judgements and proposals . we all know hten sir believe me they are in so many threads and posts . lets give playmobil a chance to see what they come up with . they dont make cookies that they can make withing 24hrs !!!! i hope all this is taken as friendsly critisism as thast how its intended  :wave: :wave: :wave:
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: cachalote on July 13, 2011, 04:03:37
 :'( thank you for your friendly criticism giorginetto but i am sorry you feel this way.
 ;) but you should not be worried my friend - i promisse i will never get to post 7 messages per day and i will leave the repeated "bring back steck" battle cry entirely in your hands.
 :) do you think that maybe we could just - like another "broken-record" playmofriend suggested (indianna) - "think about the future now that we all moving ahead" ?
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: Wesley Myers on August 24, 2011, 03:38:27
:hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

I doubt playmobil will ever try and market their products / sets as a direct head on replacement for lego.

I think the scale of Playmobil is a HUGE limiting factor.

Don't get me wrong, I love the size of it, but let's face facts - it takes up a LOT of room.
Title: Re: a new construction system for playmobil...
Post by: tahra on August 24, 2011, 07:47:43
I think the scale of Playmobil is a HUGE limiting factor.

Don't get me wrong, I love the size of it, but let's face facts - it takes up a LOT of room.

That is very true. And the buildings, planes, ships are tiny compared to what they really shoud be as is... I mean, a true cargo plane/ship in playmoscale would not fit in most of our houses, no?

I was amazed the first time I setup a train set (the "nostalgie" -or whatever it's called - RC), how much space it took - and it was such a small setup too..