Author Topic: old curve sabers  (Read 14108 times)

Offline Gustavo

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Re: old curve sabers
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2008, 19:38:20 »
On the other hand, maybe this kind of sword was made golden because the primary idea was it to be rusty ... Remember that it first appeared in pirates sets ...

And it's interesting how it migrated to so many other uses ... (The roman gladius can perfectly be used in medieval scenarios ...)

G.--
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Offline Pyrrhus

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Re: old curve sabers
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2008, 19:58:31 »
Hi Gus, truly right, I also hate that bicorne in that conquistador: I would rather like a morrion with a pit for a feather for him, if he was supposed to be the capitan. And it is certain that some of us sometimes get furious when Playmobil devy from reality, we are half nerdish adults and half simply playing grown-up childs...

With respect to the Troll saber, I don't say they were of bad quality. Perhaps it was the Antex saber the wrong one (most possible, Antex tend to make many things different).

However, I always, even as kid, loved swords, and I never liked that scimitar. I think the first time it appeared was in 1990, in the pirate 3791, which carried a barrel. There are many gold swords, even a gold gladius... I suppose they were so made by disctinction instead of rustiness. Anyway, rusty or made of gold, they are not useful to fight! How can you do so with a rusty sword?? It will broke!! >:( (too childish anger on my part, hehe, I know  :lol: :lol:)

Offline Gustavo

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Re: old curve sabers
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2008, 20:10:49 »
With respect to the Troll saber, I don't say they were of bad quality. Perhaps it was the Antex saber the wrong one (most possible, Antex tend to make many things different).

Troll did't make everthing right, I assure you ... :(
I think the best solution for Playmobil wherever it goes is to bring from Geobra, like it's done in Spain. Maybe not the cheapest, though; at least not for any country outside the EU ...


... (too childish anger on my part, hehe, I know  :lol: :lol:)

 8-)


Hi Gus, truly right, I also hate that bicorne in that conquistador: I would rather like a morrion with a pit for a feather for him, if he was supposed to be the capitan.

(Which one is the morrion one again?

I've been paying a thought on this, and I came to a conclusion that I'd like to see the count's hat (3375) in that little don Capitán figure ... It's very proper!


G.--
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Offline Gustavo

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Re: old curve sabers
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2008, 21:33:38 »
There are many gold swords, even a gold gladius... I suppose they were so made by disctinction instead of rustiness. Anyway, rusty or made of gold, they are not useful to fight! How can you do so with a rusty sword??

It could be imagined to be painted in gold ... Maybe covered with with it ... "folheada a ouro" (how do we say this in Eng.? ...). Golden is preeeeety! :love:

G.--
 :)

« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 21:40:45 by Gustavo »
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Offline Gustavo

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Re: old curve sabers
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2008, 21:42:13 »
Gold is beautiful .......
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Offline Pyrrhus

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Re: old curve sabers
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2008, 21:59:42 »
Right, Gus, gold gives a touch of distinction on anything, and seems to be "nobiliary inspired" or something, or perhaps part of a treasure.

But you cannot use a gold cover in functional swords, you should lost the gold cover when you shapen the edge for the sword to be useful.

Sorry by not answering before, I mispelled it: it is morion in English (Spanish: morrión, and I wrote the hybrid "morrion"). It is the common "conquistador" helmet, with a vertical ridge on top. Used by most European countries in the XVI century. I have seen morions with a feather, so I think this way a morion can be used to distinguish the captain.

The count's hat you mention is also good, indeed Columbus used it, but I would rather prefer that hat on a clicky without cuirass. If you had cuirass, it means you are going to fight, and then the helmet is better than a shaggy hat.

Offline Gustavo

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Re: old curve sabers
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2008, 22:22:22 »
The count's hat you mention is also good, indeed Columbus used it, but I would rather prefer that hat on a clicky without cuirass. If you had cuirass, it means you are going to fight, and then the helmet is better than a shaggy hat.

Right, the white figure's helmet in 3482 ...

You like to fight, aye? :D
This explains you beligerant mood in arguments, too ... :lol:

Indeed, when going to fight, a helmet in the don Capitán will do him better service.

It's interesting how, for a while, helmets went out of military custom ... I think it was soon after the fire arms begin to be widely used, from the XVIIth to the XIXth centuries ... It was only on the late 1800s that the British used them in those customs of "The Man who would be King", in the cinema (with Sean Connery and Michael Cane, movie based on R. Kipling's literary work) ... And it came back to use since the WWI ... It seems that there was, for some time, a delusion that, with fire power, it made no difference to take care of the head or not. But, then, war men realized that it's never too much to protect the head, after all ... (We don't see Napoleonic soldiers in helmets ... Or musketeers; it's odd, isn't it?)

As for the gold in the swords, I give up rational arguments: it's only pretty, and that all! :P :toot:

G.--
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Offline Pyrrhus

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Re: old curve sabers
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2008, 02:01:07 »
Hi Gus,
Well, I indeed like some discussions. Not always can I mantain me as unbiased and cold as I should want (indeed, if the discussion endures some time, it heatens and one become a kind of lawyer only interested in winning - this time, I think, one departs from seeking truth, which I think would be our goal). I am also enemy of having unnecesary pride, as uses to occur in discussions, but it is not always easy to avoid for me. Well, that's an internal struggle of me...

In addition, just discussing on Internet one avoids being punched or something  ;D ;D

Yes, I have to admit also that perhaps golden swords can be appreciated as distinctive of captains or non-fighting uniforms. It's just that I like functional swords... The others are not so well suited for my armies, but they are suited for parades.

With respect to the helmets, I heard that they were not longer used because they hardly can protect from bullets. Just two days ago I heard their reintroduction in the XX century was not to protect from bullet, what they can hardly achieve, but protecting from fragments of shells exploding around, which are not as faster as bullets.

However, the Napoleonic cavalry bore both helmets and cuirasses, I suppose the reason was because they were more likely to be engaged in body- to body combat (after all, they bore spears and sabers with them).

Good luck friend, sorry if I got somewhat obtuse, will try to avoid so if I devied too much to unnecesary pride (expect not to sound like a psychologist  ???).

Offline Gustavo

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Re: old curve sabers
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2008, 21:15:41 »
With respect to the helmets, I heard that they were not longer used because they hardly can protect from bullets. Just two days ago I heard their reintroduction in the XX century was not to protect from bullet, what they can hardly achieve, but protecting from fragments of shells exploding around, which are not as faster as bullets.

However, the Napoleonic cavalry bore both helmets and cuirasses, I suppose the reason was because they were more likely to be engaged in body- to body combat (after all, they bore spears and sabers with them).

It makes sense then, that for a while they stopped using ... And that they came back using, as well! Concerning the Napoleonic cavalry too, it makes sense that those kind of fighters should use helmets. However, in the US Civil War, where there was this kind of fight in certain occasions too, I can't remember any kind of helmets at all ... It wasn't in the fashion of the time. 8}


I indeed like some discussions. Not always can I mantain me as unbiased and cold as I should want (indeed, if the discussion endures some time, it heatens and one become a kind of lawyer only interested in winning - this time, I think, one departs from seeking truth, which I think would be our goal). I am also enemy of having unnecesary pride, as uses to occur in discussions, but it is not always easy to avoid for me. Well, that's an internal struggle of me...

In addition, just discussing on Internet one avoids being punched or something  ;D ;D

It is a rare thing, someone to seek the truth, and not his own opinion's reassurance in arguments ... If you do so, and if you do it with conscience -- as you show to do --, it's a virtue with which you benefit us all! 8-)

I have to admit that, in a way, I was searching more my own opinion than the truth concerning the question proposed :-[ ... Of course it isn't at all the concern of a child, to think about truth, even in simple matters ... (Maybe only the moral iniciation that lie and deceit are damaging to those who practice them in general ways. A child who takes pleasure in Playmobil already thinks about this :) ) For a child there's only simplicity, the world is simple, so are the relationships. However, we're no children, and the exercise, I think is beneficial to us all as well ... (Uhm ... maybe not to Socrates' avatar's secret identity! :hmm: )

 ;D


Yes, I have to admit also that perhaps golden swords can be appreciated as distinctive of captains or non-fighting uniforms. It's just that I like functional swords... The others are not so well suited for my armies, but they are suited for parades.

Speaking as an adult willing of perfection in the toy ;) I agree with you ... Tecnically, I think this would be the only situation we could accept the use of golden swords ... & only "folheadas a ouro".

But, hey! ... Don't tell anyone I admitted it! :shhhh:

 ;)
Gus
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Offline Pyrrhus

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Re: old curve sabers
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2008, 21:56:32 »
Hehe, thank you by your words, Gus!!

Perhaps that "seeking of truth" thing is out of place here, although I think that all times we have different theories on how something is, that should be our goal. I am a scientist, that may be also the reason I use that principle as a guide (although I also have some doubts on what is the truth and objective reality, but that problem is even more out of place).

In science, I think it is applied very well something said in the debated triple-X movie "Fritz the cat" (1972): "you study to became an intellectual only interested in outsmart other intellectuals". I think it is difficult to avoid becoming a kind of lawyer: no one wants to sound like a fool.

For example, sometimes we can tend to embrace different viewpoints on what was the real explanation of an aspect of reality. I said cuirasses and helmets in Napoleon's cavalry may be due to the fact they would get more likely engaged in man- to man combat (where the armor is useful), as I admitted the armor does not ressist bullets. Then you put on doubt this idea as in the civil war there were body- to body fights but not armor.

If this discussion follows as I think, I would try to get more evidence supporting my point of view (for example, that civil war soldiers were armed with guns, so were expected mostly to fight by shooting, even when man- to man encounters occurred -bayonet being one of the few devidces for that possibility-), and you perhaps would try to look for evidence that some regiments were expected to fight mostly hand- to hand and still lacked armor (for example, cavalry regiments were the main offensive weapon was a saber). And I do not know whou would be right, as i do not know if the possibilities above, in favor or agains my hypothesis, are certain by now...

But the problem I would have is that while looking for arguments to support my hypothesis, even if I am convinced of my position, I would tend to look mostly those favouring my hypothesis, and that may make me biased, what I try to avoid. Perhaps what one has to do is not try to defend an hypothesis, which may be correct, but take distance from defending the idea (emotional distance also) and look if there is not another hypothesis that can cope all the observations. But when one is in lawyer-mode, one defends his own point, one forgets to look for the hypothesis that better fits the data, and try to fit reality in one side of a dichotomy: what I propose is true or not.