PlaymoFriends
Creative => Photography & Graphics => Topic started by: deadeye dick on January 06, 2006, 15:45:59
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Hello,
Do we have some kind of competition (photo and/or customization) on this board?
Just asking because the homepage is still rather empty and maybe we could have the winning pictures published over there... Don't know where this idea comes from ( 0)) but it sounds fun when somebody regularly updates the pics ;)
Regards,
DD.
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You're right about the 'empty-looking' homepage. I am planning to do something with that pretty soon. It's mostly a matter of deciding on a layout and content.
A photo contest is a very nice idea and I would love to see pics by our members featured on the home page, though I am a little hesitant about directly copying ideas from other fan forums. ;)
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... I am a little hesitant about directly copying ideas from other fan forums. ;)
GREAT IDEA ... DD! ... :)9
Hello, Sylvia ...
Really? I thought that you knew the lady that runs that Yahoo place very, very well ... ;)
She probably wouldn't mind at all (if you "borrowed") an idea now ... Would she? ... ::)
All the best,
Richard
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Actually there was some (well, very little but it was the holidays) talk of having folks submit monthly photos to go with the month...they could later be made into a calandar for 2007.
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;) Yes, this could be a start and would be slightly different: for making the calendar photo competition we can set a monthly topic (related to the season). This might be an alternative (or addition) to a free competition (no specific topic, everything can be contributed).
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Sounds wonderful: the monthly 2007 calendar contest :)9
Now another question: would you mix photo and customization contest?
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Now another question: would you mix photo and customization contest?
Is that custom figures or custom items in general, e.g. vehicles, pirate ships?
(Though on reflection, how you compare a custom fire engine in a contest with a custom pirate ship is probably impossible. Do it on a basis of whether the fire engine can sink the pirate ship by flooding it before the pirates destroy the fie engine with their cannon? ???
Not one of my best questions! Let's forget I asked. ;D)
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Is that custom figures or custom items in general, e.g. vehicles, pirate ships?
(Though on reflection, how you compare a custom fire engine in a contest with a custom pirate ship is probably impossible. Do it on a basis of whether the fire engine can sink the pirate ship by flooding it before the pirates destroy the fie engine with their cannon? ???
Not one of my best questions! Let's forget I asked. ;D)
Looks like you may have created yet another "contest," Gordon ... :)
The Monthly "Who can write the most convoluted post?" competition.
I challenge your post that you wrote here, Gordon, with this one that I wrote HERE (http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=416.msg5687#msg5687)! ... ;D
However, in answer to the question that I think that you may have posed, perhaps this could be mostly a "photo" competition judged on the imaginative, creative or artistic composition of the picture. What do you think?
All the best,
Richard
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Looks like you may have created yet another "contest," Gordon ... :)
The Monthly "Who can write the most convoluted post?" competition.
However, in answer to the question that I think that you may have posed, perhaps this could be mostly a "photo" competition judged on the imaginative, creative or artistic composition of the picture. What do you think?
All the best,
Richard
Hmmmmm, I didn't read the original post properly, did I? Sorry about that, folks.
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I just started an answer (half hour ago) to explain why I think it would be nice to have two different contests: photo & customization... Then I started to get confused if it's really necessary... So, in the end it's still confusing and I stop thinking for today O0 (b.t.w. I like this smiley ;D - no, not this one; the one with the afro style hair)...
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Hello All :)
This is certainly a very interesting post but it might be worth some carefull thought before implementing a regular contest. I am very certain we do not want to repeat any mistakes that 'other' forums have made in the past ;).
One of the main things to consider in a competition is the different style's of photo's that we take. The two obvious conflicting style's are Photo Shop enhanced and Non Photo Shop enhanced. Both of the two styles are quite different and take very different skills to create. This is not to say that one is better than the other just that they are both quite different.
The age old question is how do you compare a picture with effects enhanced using a graphics package to a picture taken in a garden using natural effects ? However much people try to be 'indifferent' between the two styles you will find people will usually favour one or the other. Obviously this has been discussed at length in the past and has been known to cause one or two heated debates ;D. The only solution to come out of these debates is to run two seperate competitions, one for photo shop and one for non photo shop.
As for customising competition's they come with their own problems. This is where we need to take on board Gordon (Playmofire's) points. That is how do you compare a custom fire engine with a custom pirate ship or even a klickie ? Both types of competition are potential 'minefields' and need some very carefull thought before implementing.
Kindest Regards Tim :)
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Do you understand now why I was/am confused 8}
In dutch we say: comparing apples with pears :)
The advantage that non-photoshopers have is that they look for some nice piece of nature to have as a background, whereas photoshopers look for some virutal piece a background... My consideration was more about the difference between pictures with customized and non-customized objects. I have that feeling that a moderate picture with a custom has more 'potential' than a nice picture without custom...
Now, something just happened (:!:) during doing the dishes... The big issue with whatever contest is the word 'contest'... Even when you don't 'win' anything (besides eternal fame :wow:) people start to do the most crazy things to be first. What I already suggested on the other forum, was to have a system in place where everybody could post his/her picture of the month. Instead of voting, ALL pictures are displayed on the frontpage according to a rotation scheme.
I like this idea because it's not only the 'best' pictures that are displayed, but every participant's picture comes into the pictre ;)
............................
Coming back to the calendar (do you mean a printed version?), which is a wonderful idea, I have the following idea: What you see on some download pages is that there's a ranking based on the times that e.g. a certain background has been downloaded. This could be some 'hall of fame', where the top-12 can be used for the calendar.
...............................
Shouldn't we also do something with wallpapers ;D
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I agree with Tim in that it's very difficult to find a contest format that everyone will be happy with, and I don't know if we have enough members yet to run several different contests simultaneously... but hopefully that will change. ;)
You're right, DD ... we should also look at alternatives which give everyone the same amount of chance to see their pic featured rather than just running contests.
Instead of voting, ALL pictures are displayed on the frontpage according to a rotation scheme.
I like this idea because it's not only the 'best' pictures that are displayed, but every participant's picture comes into the pictre ;)
This 'rotation' idea sounds very interesting! :D
Is it something that would have to be done manually (ie the admin would have to change the pictures regularly), or are you thinking it would be done through a simple type of program? (ie. the picture changes automatically each time a person visits the page). I saw something like the latter on another website recently but haven't investigated how it is done...
Click this (http://home9.highway.ne.jp/toynerd/) and then reload the page (might take 2 goes) and the pic changes. I think there's 3 different versions (red, white, yellow). 8-)
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Tim and DD have nicely brought together my so far unexpressed thoughts, so I won't express them again. :)
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Is it something that would have to be done manually (ie the admin would have to change the pictures regularly), or are you thinking it would be done through a simple type of program? (ie. the picture changes automatically each time a person visits the page). I saw something like the latter on another website recently but haven't investigated how it is done...
Sylvia, I think this can easily be done by a javascript that picks a picture randomly. You just have to give the picture a generic name, e.g. January## (## is a serial number). With some programming whitchcraft it's even possible to extract the month from the server's date, add a random serial and pick the random picture. The only thing the admin has to do is place the pictures in a folder and name them after <month>+<sn>.jpg, e.g. january01.jpg, january02.jpg, ..., february01.jpg, ... and so on.
I will do some testing (it's already a while ago that I did some scripting) and propose something...
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DD, your avatar keeops changing. Is this some sort of script? (Apologies for moving slightly off-topic.)
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DD, your avatar keeops changing. Is this some sort of script? (Apologies for moving slightly off-topic.)
Well eh... I'm refining it every day, just until it's perfect :toot: But now, I think it's moving in the good direction ;) It's the 4th version now, but I think I has always been recognizable, isn't it ???
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(Apologies for moving slightly off-topic.)
...And veering precariously back onto topic....
OOO!!!! contests?! i love contests! there are actually some ideas floating around in this ol' brain of mine as well. :) here's another vote for "yes contest!!" :)
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I agree with Tim that there if there is a photo contest there should be "digitally enhanced" and "non-digitally enhanced" categories. As this site doesn't have very many members perhaps one month could be for "digitally enhanced" and the next fot "non-digitally enhanced." I feel customization should be a separate matter altogether. I also like the idea of changing photos and showing all submissions. Hituro's game site (http://www.grophland.com) randomly shows a different grophs each time you visit.
Calandar discussion began here (http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=355.0) for those who missed it. It didn't get very far.
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I agree with Tim that there if there is a photo contest there should be "digitally enhanced" and "non-digitally enhanced" categories.
I have to agree with this as well. It levels the 'playing field' to have two different categories.
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I also like the idea of changing photos and showing all submissions. Hituro's game site (http://www.grophland.com) randomly shows a different grophs each time you visit.
That's exactly what I meant ;) We could actually have a few windows on the homepage, depending on the 'category'...
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I saw that this forum supports PHP programming. I found a piece of code to retrieve a picture list from a folder, incorporate this into a javascript and display pictures radomly... Are there techies in the house O0
http://www.dyn-web.com/scripts/rotate-rand/ (http://www.dyn-web.com/scripts/rotate-rand/)
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Thanks for the link, DD. :)9
I didn't know anything about PHP before creating this forum, but I'm gradually learning how to use it as I go. I recently installed a PHP guestbook at j4k by myself, so I could probably work out how to implement this code. If not, I know someone who might be able to help. :)
Seems to me that what we need is a page that not only shows all the entries randomly, but also highlights the winning pictures in some way (maybe those pics are static and separate to the others?) - otherwise the people who enjoy entering contests for the competitive buzz will be left feeling slightly disappointed. ;)
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Thanks for the link, DD. :)9
Seems to me that what we need is a page that not only shows all the entries randomly, but also highlights the winning pictures in some way (maybe those pics are static and separate to the others?) - otherwise the people who enjoy entering contests for the competitive buzz will be left feeling slightly disappointed. ;)
Sylvia,
I would use the pictures on the homepage only to draw the attention (teaser) to the 'real contest'. This means that instead of also having rotating links, all pictures (per category) should link to the same contest category page: the gallery, where also the results are posted...
As an example: You might have 3 'windows' on the homepage', one for every category. These windows show all contributions for that month following a random rotation scheme. When you click on one of the windows, no matter which picture is on display that moment, you are guided to a hall/wall of fame, with an overview per month/contest, where the winning pictures are highlighted (with a medal?)...
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Seems to me that what we need is a page that not only shows all the entries randomly, but also highlights the winning pictures in some way (maybe those pics are static and separate to the others?) - otherwise the people who enjoy entering contests for the competitive buzz will be left feeling slightly disappointed. ;)
But what about featuring the winning picture into the calender?
8-)
I personally like very much the idea of randomly showing the entries on the starting page with a link onto the contest page...
As to the split contests... To be honest, I dont like this idea too much.
:0
Where does digital enhancement begin and where does it stop?
With the Playmos inside, I think all images have a pretty much
unenhanced basis... In contrast, I personally enjoy very much the broad diversity of motives and techniques in each of these contests I have seen so far... I feel the split into two tracks unnecessary... As far as I experienced it so far, the winning entries where typically pretty much equally spread over unenhanced, photo-shopped and custom-based entries... So I would not worry about that too much...
And after all, we are all friends, aren't we? :love:
best regards,
socrates
P.S.: @DD: There are already THREE categories? :o
I like the idea of an eternal "Hall Of Fame" :)
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P.S.: @DD: There are already THREE categories? :o
Well eh...
1. Pictures digitally enhanced
2. Pictures not digitally enhanced
3. Customizations
Personally I would only make a distinction between Pictures and Customs, but If you think further: where should you place a picture that is digitally enhanced, including a custom ??? Aaaaaaaarrrrrgh... Indeed...
That's why I like the calendar idea... I supposte we wouldn't make a calender per category, so only the most beautiful 'picture', wether it contains a custom or not; wether it is enhanced or not, would be used for the calendar... So, what's important here is the overall feeling you have with a picture, which brings us back to the basiscs of having only 1 category :hmm:
Are you guys & girls still following ;D
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So, what's important here is the overall feeling you have with a picture, which brings us back to the basiscs of having only 1 category :hmm:
Are you guys & girls still following ;D
I am completely with you... :yup:
take care...
socrates
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Where does digital enhancement begin and where does it stop?
Digital enhancement begins when you use any graphics package to enhance a picture either by adding special effects or backgrounds etc. It needs to be mentioned here that I would not class a picture that has been re-sized as digitally enhanced. Where digital enhancement stops is hard to define because you can go from simply adding a flame to a burning torch or to adding a whole new digital background. The thing we need to remember is that not everyone has acsess to graphics packages such as Photo Shop. What we need to decide is wether it is fairer to have two seperate competitions or to let those without expensive graphics packages take their chances with those that do.
On a more general note i like the idea of having a competiton to create pictures for the 2007 calendar but i am not a fan of having a 'general' photo competition just yet. As i said before it has been done elswehere on the WWW and we have all seen the problems it has caused. We need to find a better way of running such a competition first and with some of the suggestions allready made we are heading in the right direction.
Kindest regards Tim :)9
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Another point i have just seen is what should be done with pictures in the photo competition that have custom klickies in them. I think we are looking at it in too much detail and things are going to become more complicated 8}. If we were to have a photo competition then i feel custom klickies should be allowed. The subject that causes the most debate is enhanced pictures V's non enhanced pictures.
Kindest Regards Tim
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On a more general note i like the idea of having a competiton to create pictures for the 2007 calendar but i am not a fan of having a 'general' photo competition just yet. As i said before it has been done elswehere on the WWW and we have all seen the problems it has caused.
As I already said: troubles start when the word 'competition' is involved... What we can do is already implement something like the rotation scheme without having a competion -no winner, no losers - and in the meantime think about a good system to organize a competition...
We need to find a better way of running such a competition first and with some of the suggestions allready made we are heading in the right direction.
What do you suggest? Maybe we should make a list of all things considered as potential pitfalls and find a solution for them :)9
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The thing we need to remember is that not everyone has acsess to graphics packages such as Photo Shop. What we need to decide is wether it is fairer to have two seperate competitions or to let those without expensive graphics packages take their chances with those that do.
Sorry for not letting down the topic, but I really have a general problem in understanding the big issue of digital enhancement in images... You say, some don't have access to PhotoShop, but some might not have access to a really expensive camera. Do not have access to the same sets than others have... You need special training or experience for photoshop but you need special skills for making good pictures in one shot as well...
From my point of view, exactly these differences in equipement and expertise and passion to a certain theme is what gives the spice in every such competition... And I think, using digital enhancement to put up a certain atmosphere is just one more thing between others...
If some people really have major concers with DE vs. non-DE, I am fine with splitting the contests, but for me it feels kind of artificial... The same with the customs... When voting for an image for the calender, I would love to have the choice between all different kind of styles in one competition to jugde, which helped me enjoy my playmo-passion the most...
I love all the pictures... no matter where they come from...
And if we make the calender-voting themed, then it is really a matter of inspiration in the first place, to make a brilliant entry...
So, that's my view on this topic... :)
best regards,
socrates
The idea of the contests after all is to find
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Sorry for not letting down the topic, but I really have a general problem in understanding the big issue of digital enhancement in images... You say, some don't have access to PhotoShop, but some might not have access to a really expensive camera. Do not have access to the same sets than others have... You need special training or experience for photoshop but you need special skills for making good pictures in one shot as well...
Hello Socrates
First and for most there is certainly no need for an expensive camera in creating a non digitally enhanced photo. I started out in the very early days using a basic camera complete with film of all things !! I used to take about 30 pictures and it was hit and miss which ones turned out. Needless to say there were a few decent pictures which i was able to post on forums. As for digitally enhanced not only do you need a camera but you also need a good graphics package and as you point out the skill to use it. The basis of the debate is allways going to be wether digitally enhanced and non digitally enhanced pictures are different regardless of any customised klickies.
To this end you are allways going to have a debate between those that feel there is a difference and those that don't.
Kindest Regards Tim
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I recently went through similar discussions with the local branch of the Cats Protection League because they would not allow digital cameras because "it was unfair as you can do things with digital cameras you can't do with 'normal ones'". I pointed out that you could do things in a darkroom with a film camera equivalent to what you can do with a digital camera, so this gave an advantage to people with a darkroom. But digital enhancement and darkroom enhancement both come down to being able to use the methods; if you can't, you just make a hash of things. (In addition, you could take the pic on a film camera and then scan it into your computer and enhance it!)
And where does digital enhancement start and end? I sometimes use software to lighten a photo because the camera has underexposed a bit, or to drop out a distracting shadow at the edge I hadn't noticed. Would that rule out my picture from the competition?
Lastly, how do you know when a photo has been digitally enhanced or not? You depend on the person entering it, but you can't "police" the rule and so people may be tempted to cheat or may be accused of cheating when they haven't.
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Well, in my experience pictures that use a natural background (does somebody remind viking stopover?) always scored higher than photoshoped pictures... I don't think people really vote technically, but more from their belly (and I guessalso to do somebody a favour >:D)... Have alook at my Contest Page (http://www.deadeye.be/PLAYMOBIL/contest/index.htm) and be surprised how few votes I got for some Photoshoped pictures (e.g. the Kingdom of what picture)... And then my punisher pic, that was not photoshoped at all, ended on the third place... So, I dont think voting happens logically or technically, but more intuitively...
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I think its being taken too literally when we say digitally enhanced and things are getting convoluted and confusing now. When i think of digitally enhanced i see a picture that has anything extra or artificial added to it using Photo Shop. This means any 'artificial' bacgrounds or special effects such as flames, smoke, fog etc. There is a world of difference between creating flames in Photo Shop than compared to setting up real flames. This is where i think the two types of picture are quite different.
Needless to say this debate has the potential to go round in circles for ever and a day so we will have to agree to disagree. All i can say is i have seen it discussed before on other forums and it never gets anywhere.
On a final note i was under the impression we want to be different from the other forums on the net ? Surely we can come up with something a little more different than a 'monthly' photo competition. I am sure that soon there will be cries to change the background to Blue >:D
Kindest Regards Tim
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Well eh... My proposal was to have no contest at all ; in the first place to have no discussions like these 0) and second of all, to be slightly different than forums were they have contest ;D I guess the most important thing is that people see 'our work', isn't it... So by placing it randomly on the homepage we succeed in this mission without discussing about rules and categories <:>
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As I already said: troubles start when the word 'competition' is involved... What we can do is already implement something like the rotation scheme without having a competion -no winner, no losers - and in the meantime think about a good system to organize a competition...
What do you suggest? Maybe we should make a list of all things considered as potential pitfalls and find a solution for them :)9
Hello DD :)9
Just going over a few potential 'pitfalls' because as you can see by the quote above you were asking for ideas earlier on so we could work out a good system to organise a 'competition' (see quote above) 0)
Kindest Regards Tim :)
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This is really awkward because I can fully agree with points being made on both sides of this discussion. 8}
Some of the best Playmobil photos I have seen were done without using any digital enhancement at all, so I tend to agree that photo-shopping enhancement alone is not always enough to make a person choose one photo over another in a contest. Personally, I have a tendency to favour photos that use everyday household items and materials for scenery and background like the old-style dioramas found in Playmo catalogues, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.
You're right, Tim. It takes different types of skill to make each style of picture, but neither skill should be seen as being more clever or more labour-intensive than the other.
I know from trying out both methods in the past that it can take a similar amount of effort to produce both styles of image. The photo-shopper may not need to take quite as much time over his background or lighting, but he/she still must spend considerable amount of time editing a pic afterwards if they hope to achieve something that still looks effective and "real". Just ask DD how difficult and time-consuming it is to cut around rigging and sails on a pirate ship in order to put a real sky behind it. ;) I can't even imagine how hard it is to create a real fire that looks good in a Playmo photo without setting your klickies alight because I never tried it, but I'm sure it is harder than it looks too. :yup:
I wonder if we really can find a solution that suits everyone. I hope so.
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Well eh... My proposal was to have no contest at all ; in the first place to have no discussions like these 0) and second of all, to be slightly different than forums were they have contest ;D I guess the most important thing is that people see 'our work', isn't it... So by placing it randomly on the homepage we succeed in this mission without discussing about rules and categories <:>
Perhaps we may really want to think about these words from DD. Words that appear to be almost Solomon-like in their wisdom. They may deserve to be read several times before we make any decisions!
Is it possible that the more times DD's words are read, the more sense they make?
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I believe there are only two ways that a photo contest would not cause hurt feelings. First of all is to do as DD suggested and not have the competition at all. The other way is to some how make a set of rules that may become soo specific some may not find the competition fun anymore., I on the other hand believe every game needs a set of rules. How hard would it be to play Pictionary or Trivial Pursuit if there were no rules and boundaries.
I for one would love to see a photo competition though. If you can make it on an even playing ground. If you were running the competition to therefore turn into a calender in 2007.. I suggest one theme per month. Such at a Valentines day theme for February. You could use any theme to portray that theme.. wether you collect just animals, Robots, Knights.. etc. This would make it easier to determine a winner because everyone is doing the same subject.
Secondly, if a person wins one month. I think the max amount of times a person can win is 3 per year. So pick and choose what months you really want to compete in. This allows some of the other folks to win or not feel as though the competition is more of a "popularity contest". Overall, once you have won your three months, you are no longer able to compete for the year.
Also pick and choose what months will be a digitally enhanced competition or a straight up picture competition. Digitally enhanced could be done every two months, or every other month if it is that commonly practiced. I suggest a poll of how people take their photos or what kind of photo they would enter in a contest, and determine a schedule based on votes.
There should be at least one person that is the head of the photo contest who enforces the rules and picks themes for the month. Themes can be picked also by poll.. come up with a few ideas and poll to see what the majority is most interested in that month.
I also think that if the photo contest comes down to only two entries per month.. then it is time to retire the contest.. There should be a limit of 4 photos to have a good competition.
Okay.. all suggestions.. I am sure some may dissagree.. I am just offering up what I would like to see.
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When i think of digitally enhanced i see a picture that has anything extra or artificial added to it using Photo Shop. This means any 'artificial' bacgrounds or special effects such as flames, smoke, fog etc. There is a world of difference between creating flames in Photo Shop than compared to setting up real flames. This is where i think the two types of picture are quite different.
Ah, the can of worms is open. I was afraid of this. Some thoughts if you will:
1. The quote by Tim above is an nice one for folks to follow. Of couse film based photos can be lightened, resized, even cropped and yes, scannned, and so forth or they won't be online. 8} But there is world of difference between cropping a photo (digitally or with scissors!) and moving components about or adding things not originally there.
2. As for how people "vote" ...I'm sure it differs...but elsewhere all but 1 or 2 "winners" were photoshopped significantly. I've seen a simple photo of a couple of klickies with a "Monet" photo shop background win a prize (elsewhere) and that is bunk (IMHO). :P .
3. As for dark room vs. editing software: Gordon, dear man, you are typically so wise but here you are a bit silly. :) Consider...um...$100 bucks (software) vs. $3000 (for a simple darkroom if one has space) + a few clicks vs. hours of work with chemicals. Not really the same thing I don't think. (And I know these costs having experimented with both.)
4. Who wins? Ok, how about bi-monthly "events" for the two types of photos (I do think we should let the customization issue wait a bit and not intrude on photography just yet) and at the end of the year folks can vote on the photos that should be in the calandar (the point of this exercise recall ;) ). Both I and Hoppatussa have suggested this approach thus far.
5. I would hope (and desire) that film based and digital photographers could use this as a way to assist one another.
6. As for the competition aspect....this is always the biggest issue it seems and has ruined many contests. ::) Whatever happened to submitting your best because you wish to share it with others (and get some praise?) Or because you just took a great photo for the 1st time and are tickled pink (or blue for the hyper- macho among us) so you just want to show it off????
That said...for you "gotta win" types...How about you win the honor of teaching a tutorial on how you made your fantastic photo? Really, I mean, what could be a greater honor than having your work displayed and knowing it is appreciated and your technique is sought after by others? (Maybe Sylvia will also send you a certificate or something.) Serious artists in the offline world are often thrilled to have their works displayed regardless of plaques, ribbons, and such...and often give "master workshops" that recognize their talent.
7. Finally...I would really hope folks would consider this an effort to make a cool calandar (something novel) rather than a chance to one-up other people or other forums.
I'm not moderating here just now but I hope these comments help. - Diana
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Hello Psyche / All
I just spent half an hour typing my response to the above but you beat me to it and besides you have put it so beautifully yourself i need not bother now :wow:. I totally agree with the points you have made. I think it would be a great idea to have a calendar as this is something that has not been tried before. I am also sure that we could draw up some guidelines to see us through it. As a general note on 'monthly' competitons please see below.
A General Note:
What i wanted to pick up on (calendar aside) is the fact that if we are going to have a competiton we do not want to make the same mistakes as other forums because as i said before we are different to that.
I have witnessed at first hand the trouble that even uttering the dreaded words 'competition' can cause and i have seen it allmost divide a community causing ill feeling that lasts for a long time. However it is quite interesting that the subject of the competition in question has recently been brought up aswell. It seems as though there are people who are just not happy unless there is some virtual award to be won. I am happy enough sharing my work with others rather than competing with them to be the best. The reward i get for my work is that hopefully i enspire people to have a go at customising themselves !!
Kindest Regards Tim
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Hi, I've only been mildly paying attention to this thread, but here are my comments anyway. I see the primary purpose of any photo competition to be the encouragement of people to post photos. It helps get you motivated when there is a deadline. I also think that while the motivation is good the whole competition part can get in the way. So here's my suggested plan:
1. We start a thread for ideas for possible theme photos for a calendar
2. The mods get together and pick perhaps the best 15 ideas from the thread - the idea here is that it gives lots of room for possibilities in the final calendar.
3. From the beginning (February?) through November the ideas are evenly spaced out and a schedule is created.
4. Each idea would have a thread to post photos in about that theme idea. The photos could be in any format digitally altered or not. A poll is created and left open for an extended period so members can vote. No prizes will be given - the purpose for voting is to find the most popular photos from that set.
5. In December a new poll is created. The entries in the final poll for the calendar would be the top vote earners from all the previous polls combined. Maybe the top 3 or 4 from each. It may be that more than one photo from the same theme may bring in high enough votes to get into the calendar. As long as they aren't overly seasonal (all Santas for instance) then that shouldn't matter. It would be the best of the best from the whole year.
6. Another possibility is to have some slots in the final poll that are decided by nomination from among the photos posted on the board over the whole year - they wouldn't have had to be in the theme threads at all - just ones that really stood out for people.
This is just an idea, but it seems to me like generalizing things a bit and allowing a whole year of photo posting before deciding anything that would go in to the calendar would be a nice way to go.
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Hi Tim,
I like your idea very much and I'm glad the calendar idea is back again ;)
The idea here should be that we, playmofriends, work as a team to produce the most beautiful playmocalendar in the world :)9
Working in a team also means that the result of the group is more important than the individual result, so sometimes you have to admit that another picture is nicer than yours...
Having a final poll with the top entries (2 or 3) of all previous polls is also brilliant - that's the way they do it in Belgium to choose a candidate for the Eurosong competition, even though the actual results are not that brilliant ::)
So, when will we start O0
B.T.W. having a rotation scheme for the homepage is still a valuable idea that can be implemented besides the calendar contest, no?
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having a rotation scheme for the homepage is still a valuable idea that can be implemented besides the calendar contest, no?
I think that is a great idea and I will do my best to make it happen. :yup:
Really, I'm happy with anything that gets decided re having a contest format vs. no contest, having the style of pics separate or together... as long as everyone else here is in agreement and no-one thinks their opinion hasn't been given due consideration. :)
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I am very happy so far... I really think we should go for Tim's idea :)9
Actually I'm very jalous of 'real photographers' that make the nicest pictures without enhancing them (B.T.W. can somebody give me a hint how I could make a nice pic of a sunset - I'll make a new thread of this). I wish I could do the same. Now, what I try to do for my pictures is to have a background I shot myself during holidays... The Victory background comes from a place called Panermos somewhere in Crete... And I can assure you, some more holiday pics are coming your way :*)
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Hello, DD ...
Click HERE (http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=262.msg5277#msg5277) and tell me if this is what you had in mind for a sunset. If so, I'm happy to tell you how to shoot beautiful sunsets with a digital camera.
All the best,
Richard
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There should be at least one person that is the head of the photo contest who enforces the rules and picks themes for the month. Themes can be picked also by poll.. come up with a few ideas and poll to see what the majority is most interested in that month.
Speaking very quiet and not wanting to mess up all the things already said here (which -- seen from different angles -- are nearly all making sense and are valid thoughs as far it concerns myself). I just want to give my :2c: and want to remark: I like your suggestions, especially the one to limitate the number how often a single person can win a year (in the case we are going for a "regular" contest), because this would also give those people a chance who are no geniuses in arts crafts.
But I want to make a remark to the suggestion for the rule quoted above ("Themes can be picked also by poll") that this might exclude some people from participation, because I got the impression, that some Playmobil themes are more popular (in a broader mass) than other ones. Those members focusing on a less popular theme might never get the chance to show their ideas or work (at least in the contest ;)) So I hope the term "themes" is not only ment in the sense of Playmobil themes (like "Construction", "Dollhouse", "Safari"), but more in a broader sense like "Winter", "Friendship", "Peace".
I also would like to make the remark that defining a specific topic or theme for a month, this also could lead to "endless" and heavy discussions, because association of people to a specific topic are quite different and sometimes not understandable to others, which could end up, that a contribution will be reject because of "off-topic". (I have made some experiences with this in a non-playmobil related photo contest which was coupled with a discussion forum, and I can say, that these not always have been nice ...)
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Thanks for your quiet words Jochen. I don't know but I think Hoppatussa was referring to "themes" as in topics (e.g. Spring, Celebration, Vacation, and so forth.) It would be nice to have such photographic themes worked out for the year before starting so some of us busy/slow people can lots of time. That would do away with having to slog through a discussion as to what the topic should be each month. Perhaps we can have folks suggest general themes (as Tiermann suggests) and then if there are more than 12 we can run a poll.
As for someone being "in charge" ...my 2 cents is that if there should be 2 people who can agree to work well together respectfully. This is important as people leave, have family/emotional/financial crises, have a busy month or whatever. So two-three folks who are willing to take on guideance and organization (not bossing or dictating) may work best. That way we don't have one person making unilateral decisions or someont disappearing and leaving the project in a lurch.
Finally, I also like Tiermann's idea to not make any "for sure" decisions on the calandar until all is said and done. One never knows what will be a year from now...or even a month from now. Perhaps one of the "terms" for entry can simply be that people agree that if selected, they give permission for their photo to be used if/when PlaymoFriends makes a calandar, while making sure the creator/photographer retains full rights and ownership of their work.
Oh, and one last word on the film vs. digital categories. As it seems most people do digital here...how about we have 2 digital contests then 1 film based....this will encourage both types of photographers to try both formats--something I know I find fun and challenging. Even if they just borrow a camera. As someone pointed out earlier, today's film based "point and shoots" take some pretty amazing photos, I'll happily loan mine if needed...and it's about 8 years old but still takes better outdoor shots than my Sony digicam, which I also love.
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Hello Diana / All :)
Not wanting to go too deep into the debate about Photo Shop again but here is a quickie on the film vs digital idea :).
I think it is more down to wether you use a Photo Shop package and camera to 'create' your picture rather than just a camera be it film or digital. I personally use a digital camera but steer clear of using Photo Shop because it is expensive and i do not own a copy of it. Using a film based camera is similar to using a digital allthough it is less convinient and more hit and miss. It is also harder to get one to focus on close up objects but for all intents and purposes the final results are similar.
Differences between pictures in my oppinion come into it when you use a Graphics package to create your picture as opposed to when you don't. You can certainly create a lot more different effects and results using Photo Shop than you can when you just use a camera. So is it fair to compare a picture who's snowy backdrop has been added seperatley through Photo Shop to someone who crawled on their hands and knees through real snow to get just the right shot ? This is why i think there should be a seperate catergory for Non Photo Shop enhanced pictures. Then leave it up to an indipendent judge to decide wether the photo shop manipulation is too much for a picture to enter the non photo shop catergory. I mean who is going to argue if the only Photo Shop manipulation in a picture is for exapmle a flame added to a burning torch ? Its just a matter of the judge using their discretion.
As for the calendar if it goes ahead then as i said before i have no problem with a selection of pictures from either style being picked.
Kindest Regards Tim :wave:
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So is it fair to compare a picture who's snowy backdrop has been added seperatley through Photo Shop to someone who crawled on their hands and knees through real snow to get just the right shot ?
Well eh Tim, I agree that there is a difference between DE (let's call it digitally enhanced again instead of digital camera vs. film) and non-DE...
But one way to think about that is that the only thing that counts is the result... Did you ever think that doing it the hard way (crawling through the snow) does not always produces the 'nicest picture'. OK, it took a lot of effort, but it's a misunderstanding that people makes to think that more effort = more chance of winning or even worse = better quality... I would like to see a voting system seen through the eyes of child that doesn't know anything about DE or non-DE and just picks the nicesest picture...
Now this discussion can take forever and there will be no contest (or whatever you call it) unless somebody takes the initiative to propose a set of rules (that can be fine-tuned later on) and start the contest. Everybody that can live with the rules can participate. If you don't agree you don't participate and you post your pictures in the Film & Photography Gallery as regular threads...
BUT, I 'm more in favor of the idea below...
As it seems most people do digital here...how about we have 2 digital contests then 1 film based....this will encourage both types of photographers to try both formats--something I know I find fun and challenging. Even if they just borrow a camera. As someone pointed out earlier, today's film based "point and shoots" take some pretty amazing photos, I'll happily loan mine if needed...and it's about 8 years old but still takes better outdoor shots than my Sony digicam, which I also love.
Regards,
DD.
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But one way to think about that is that the only thing that counts is the result... Did you ever think that doing it the hard way (crawling through the snow) does not always produces the 'nicest picture'.
You can finally see the point i am trying to make and that is however nice a photo that is taken by normal means is it will never be able to compete with a fully Photo Shopped picture. This is why there should be two seperate competitions.
Kindest regards Tim
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Well eh Tim, I agree that there is a difference between DE (let's call it digitally enhanced again instead of digital camera vs. film) and non-DE...
Actually this was what I meant Tim & DD...digitally enchanced vs. non-digatally enhanced (camera type being irrelvant).
Now this discussion can take forever
Agreed. I think we have the basics down do we not? Would someone like me to present a proposal that can be discussed?
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Now this discussion can take forever and there will be no contest (or whatever you call it) unless somebody takes the initiative to propose a set of rules (that can be fine-tuned later on) and start the contest. Everybody that can live with the rules can participate. If you don't agree you don't participate and you post your pictures in the Film & Photography Gallery as regular threads...
Hello DD and Everyone,
If we are going to have a competition i agree that we need a set of guidelines written down. However we do not really want to alienate anyone by saying here are the guidelines take them or leave them. We are including people in this discussion to find out how they feel and what ideas they have so we can get a good set of rules down that suits us all and not just a few people.
On a final note I do feel that we have discussed enhanced V non enhanced fully from both sides now and i dont think we need to go over it again :). What i would like to do is encourage our other members who have not taken part to offer their ideas on the competition however much they feel people may disagree. We are a very understanding bunch here and i can honestly say that ALL ideas are being taken on board. Like i said before if we are going to have a forum competition we want everyone to be happy with what is decided :)9.
Kindest Regards Tim :wave:
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Perhaps it's because of my job, but from experience I know that if you involve too many people for the initial decision taking you will end up nowhere. To start something you should do this with as few people as possible and then gradually take into account the ideas/remarks from other people to fine-tune the contest...
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A set of rules I suggest:
WHO...
1. can participate: everyone that is member of playmofriends
2. can vote: everyone that is member of playmofriends and can vote only once (can this be monitored?)
3. the winner of a contest is asked not to participate the next two contests/months in order to give also other people a chance (we know that there are experts that can win every contest, but it should be fun for everybody)
WHAT (pictures)...
4. should not be solely playmobil, but should at least contain playmobil
5. can be digitally enhanced (DE), but it's not a must, except when the contest prescibes it. The same goes for non-DE. This rule suggests that you can have dedicated DE or non-DE contests during the year.
6. the organizer can propose a certain theme depending on certain events (e.g. Tsunami, Pakistan, friendship, solidarity, etc.) or time of the year (holidays, x-mas, eastern, spring, summer, fall, winter, etc.)...
7. should NOT contain any explicit scenes
WHEN...
8. monthly competition with end-of-year final (EOY)
9. pictures can be posted first week of the month
10. voting can take place during two weeks
11. winning pictures will NOT appear on homepage (since all pictures will appear on homepage making use of a random rotation scheme - linked to the contest sub-forum), but all contests will be grouped in a special contest sub-forum in order to have a clear overview.
PURPOSE
12. having a monthly top-3 that will participate in the EOY-contest.
13. maybe there is a price for the winning pictures in the EOY-contest.
DISCLAIMER
14. participating pictures can be used, after having permission of the owner, for purposes other than the contest, e.g. calendar or promotional flyers to promote the forum...
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OK, this is already some stuff that certainly needs to be fine-tuned. It contains lots of input from this disccusion. If you agree/disagree I suggest that you quote the specific rule in your reply and that you give your remarks. It's also possible to introduce new rules... So, let's go for it ;)
PS: I was thinking about some other contest where the ones who organize the contest are not allowed to participate themselves... Is this relevant for this contest?
PPS: Not that I'm planning to, but should anybody be able to participate with a picture that was already used in another contest (on another forum)?
Regards,
DD.
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7. should NOT contain any explicit scenes
What does this mean? ??? Maybe I'm stupid or my dictionary is, because I'm no native English speaker, so I had to look up the word "scene", because the meaning I thought this word has doesn't make any sense to me: If I set up a diorama or compose a situation this always happens in a "scene" ...
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The key word there isn't 'scene', it is 'explicit' ... in other words, nothing you wouldn't let your child look at.
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The key word there isn't 'scene', it is 'explicit' ... in other words, nothing you wouldn't let your child look at.
Ah, thanks for clarification.
(Although just only focusing on "explicit" I wouldn't have gotten the sense neither.)
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After a heavy rush, it has been very quiet for a few days now...
Any ideas, remarks, feedback ???
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. I don't know but I think Hoppatussa was referring to "themes" as in topics (e.g. Spring, Celebration, Vacation, and so forth.)
Correct. Take my original example like Valentines day..
I like DDs rules. Like I origninally said.. have a few months that pics are digitally enhanced and have others non-digitally enhanced..
Seems like most items that could cause conflict are covered in his rules. Good job!
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I'm beginning to wonder if we have enough members willing to enter a competition of this type on a regular basis, in order to make this whole thing work. Maybe we should wait a bit longer? :-\
I certainly don't want to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for submitting photos to the forum, but I would like to hear how many members really have the time or the will to take part in a competition each month, if we do decide to go ahead with this.
I'm still very keen to show photos by the members on PF's home page, regardless of whether we do or don't go ahead with a regular competition format, so I will have a closer look at how that can be done when I get enough time. :)
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Sylvia makes a good point. There are very few active member here and there have been a lot of rather drastic forum changes since David, Meg, Sylvia, and I founded this forum (with Beth as Our 1st moderator.) There was a lot of initial enthusiam for the forum as planned, but much less now for the forum as is. Just take a look at what's happened on the New Year's Token project. :(
Still, perhaps those of you who have worked so hard on this idea should see if Sylvia will let you give it go anyway. As a founder of this forum and ex-moderator (along with Meg, Beth, and David) I wish you the best of luck.
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Well I know from experience the best I do is perhaps 5 or 6 entries a year. It does take a fairly big group of active photographers to keep something like that going. It seems like at least half the posters in that other contest are actually from Playmo-Portal and don't post much there otherwise.
If there is interest in moving forward we might look at going seasonal? Perhaps four contests the first year - Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter. Between them there should be some nice material that might be used for a calendar - and such a broad theme as a season would allow for just about any Playmo content. e.g. knights in winter, playing in the snow, modern city in winter, fire response in winter with the hose spray icing over, etc.
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Hello All :)
The main thing that needs to be considered is wether at this point in time Playmofriends would benefit from a monthly competition. My opinion is that currently we don't have enough members to warrant it. Apart from that one of my main concerns is that if we run a monthly competition we would be following the same path as Playmoboard and other forums. Is it going to be possible for us to avoid the same mistakes that they made along the way ?
This is just my take on the situation but i think we need to try something no other forum has tried before. We need to do something that gets beginners involved not just the experts. Maybe we could have a competition that rewards people for trying not just striving to be the best :)9. At the end of the day i come here to have fun, relax and enjoy my hobby with friends :). I don't come here to compete with them to find out who is the best at taking pictures or making custom's :lol:. This is my own personal choice and no offence intended but we are having a regular monthly contest i will certainly not be taking part, voting or otherwise :).
On a final note i have more enthusiasm for Playmofriends than ever before and i believe that this board has the potential to go far. It certainly has exceeded my expectations in the months since it started. I have to say having looked back at the proposal that i dont think things have changed that drastically :)9. Infact Playmofriends just keeps getting better.
Kindest Regards Tim :wave:
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Here is my :2c:
First, it seems that a contest now may suffer from too few entries each month. We had the same thing at the Yahoo group and the competition suffered as a result. Over time, people seemed to be even less interested in it. Perhaps for now we should just encourage people to post photos they want to share, without having the framework of an official "contest." For those who sometimes need additional motivation, such as myself, perhaps a monthly theme would work, but simply as a form of inspiration. We could encourage people who have an image that meets the theme to post in a a "theme thread" in the gallery - not with the aim of competing, but simply to share what we've done and get feedback from others.
Second, I have been very interested in the digitally enhanced vs. non-digitally enhanced debate. I very much enjoy adding digital enhancements to my photos. Perhaps it is a reaction to the fact that I am most certainly NOT permitted to do so at work! It is a dismissable offense. There are certain effects that are very difficult to reproduce without digital editing software, and to me it is a matter of personal preference. I think my pictures look better when I get through with them - but those are MY pictures. I have a vision for almost every Playmobil photo I work on, and it starts with the basic image and goes through adding backgrounds, effects, etc. Everyone has their own vision (based on talent, ability, time, resources, etc.) and everyone's vision for their own work is equally valid. I have seen some fantastic digitally enhanced photos, as well as some non-enhanced photos that have left me speechless.
If this debate ever moves beyond that and to an actual contest, I think DD's rules are an excellent starting point. As far as determining whether or not a given image has been enhanced, I am including the guidelines we use at my work, for a major international news agency. Hopefully they can be of some help in defining the terms of the debate.
"The content of a photograph must not be altered in PhotoShop or by any other means. No element should be digitally added to or subtracted from any photograph. The faces or identities of individuals must not be obscured by PhotoShop or any other editing tool. Only retouching or the use of the
cloning tool to eliminate dust and scratches are acceptable.
Minor adjustments in PhotoShop are acceptable. These include cropping, dodging and burning, conversion into grayscale, and normal toning and color
adjustments that should be limited to those minimally necessary for clear and accurate reproduction (analogous to the burning and dodging often used in darkroom processing of images) and that restore the authentic nature of the photograph. Changes in density, contrast, color and saturation levels that substantially alter the original scene are not acceptable. Backgrounds should not be digitally blurred or eliminated by burning down or by
aggressive toning."
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"The content of a photograph must not be altered in PhotoShop or by any other means. No element should be digitally added to or subtracted from any photograph. The faces or identities of individuals must not be obscured by PhotoShop or any other editing tool. Only retouching or the use of the
cloning tool to eliminate dust and scratches are acceptable.
Minor adjustments in PhotoShop are acceptable. These include cropping, dodging and burning, conversion into grayscale, and normal toning and color
adjustments that should be limited to those minimally necessary for clear and accurate reproduction (analogous to the burning and dodging often used in darkroom processing of images) and that restore the authentic nature of the photograph. Changes in density, contrast, color and saturation levels that substantially alter the original scene are not acceptable. Backgrounds should not be digitally blurred or eliminated by burning down or by
aggressive toning."
This part I wholeheartedly agree with, having done actual darkroom work. I can appreciate digital darkroom enhancement just as much as the physical darkroom enhancements.
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Ok, thanks for the replies. As I understand, we have a nice set of basic rules now that could be used if we would eventually organize a contest.
Now, from the last remarks I received a lot valuable feedback why it would be better not to organize a contest: not enough participants, doing the same as other boards, possible argues, not wanting to compete with other playmofriends, etc.
So maybe it's time to bring the 'frontpage-random-rotation-scheme' idea back under your attention :yup:
Main idea is to have your art work displayed randomly on the playmofriends' homepage (which is rather empty now). Nobody wins - nobody loses (no competition whatsoever) 0). We could have two windows: one that points to the 'Customs & Conversions' sub forum and one that links to the 'Film & Photography sub forum', just with a remark: 'Visit our <.....> section for more art work'. The pictures in the windows can be displayed randomly every time you visit the web site or continously when being on the homepage...
From my experience, when I visited the playmoboard web site last year for the very first time, I was overwhelmed by the pictures I saw on the homepage. I didn't knew that there was a community that was customizing PM and made nice diorama's. So in my opinion it's more important to display art work than having a contest ;)
Regards,
DD.
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So maybe it's time to bring the 'frontpage-random-rotation-scheme' idea back under your attention
Main idea is to have your art work displayed randomly on the playmofriends' homepage (which is rather empty now). Nobody wins - nobody loses (no competition whatsoever) . We could have two windows: one that points to the 'Customs & Conversions' sub forum and one that links to the 'Film & Photography sub forum', just with a remark: 'Visit our <.....> section for more art work'. The pictures in the windows can be displayed randomly every time you visit the web site or continously when being on the homepage...
I have to admit i am not familiar with the front page as it is at the moment because i stay logged in and have my home page set to the forum. However i think this is a very good idea and it might encourage some new members to join especially if they can see a sample of some of the work contained in the main site. I really do think we should look at implementing this. What do the Co-Founders think ?
So in my opinion it's more important to display art work than having a contest
I totally agree with this philosophy :)9
Kindest Regards Tim
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Well, my understanding of this board was that it was a "for the klickies, by the klickies" (just paraphrasing here ;) ). I personally love the idea of people just submitting their pics, no contest, no competition, just a fun display. I also agree that it would be a good draw for the site.
As I recall, earlier in this thread, someone provided the PHP coding to make this a possibility. So if everyone agrees that this would be a good thing, then as a member's site, let's go for it!
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I think it's a great idea to do the front page project. My only concern would be if it would significantly increase bandwidth usage. Pics take quite a bit more than a text page does.
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Nice hat, T ;D
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I think it's a great idea to do the front page project. My only concern would be if it would significantly increase bandwidth usage. Pics take quite a bit more than a text page does.
Hi T (indeed a nice avatar :)9)
Bandwidth depends on which solution you choose for displaying pictures. If you choose to display several pictures during a visitor's stay on the homepage (HP), you would need to download (or pre-load for better performance) several pictures. However, when you display only one random pic everytime somebody visits the HP, bandwith is not an issue since most pics only take a few kilobytes.
As I recall, earlier in this thread, someone provided the PHP coding to make this a possibility. So if everyone agrees that this would be a good thing, then as a member's site, let's go for it!
Concerning the scripting: there are 2 possibilities: 1) server-side (e.g. PHP) or 2) client side scripting (e.g. javascript). In my opinion solution 2 is easier to implement, but harder to maintain. Solution 1 could be a generic script that just reads pictures from a folder and generates an HTML page with a random picture.