PlaymoFriends
General => News => Topic started by: Hadoque on May 17, 2011, 21:53:36
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Found this info on Klickywelt... no pics though.
The set-numbers follow those of the schoolbus, ambulance and such, so I guess there are perhaps some new ("not-yet-known-ones") among them?
5955 Santa & Angel
5956 Carrying Case Holiday
5957 Christmas Room
5958 Nativity Scene
5959 Dragon Knights Set Club Exclusives
5960 Pony Riding Camp Set Club Exclusives
5961 Farm Set Club Exclusives
5962 Ice Cream Cart
5963 Boat
5964 Pool
5967 Flamingos
5968 Zoo
5969 Large Zoo
5970 Carrying Case Vet Clinic
5971 Carrying Case School
5972 Carrying Case Knights
5973 Carrying Case Fire
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I hope they're not Made in China items also! :hissyfit:
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Hm.... I wonder what these are? Several new carrying case sets. The ones that caught my eye are the ones labeled as club exclusives. What is that about?
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Hm.... I wonder what these are? Several new carrying case sets. The ones that caught my eye are the ones labeled as club exclusives. What is that about?
yeah me too.
obviously something to do with the collector's club.
does someone in the PCC Board know something else?
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Ooh, I never noticed the 'club exclusives"! Waaah, how soon can we find out?
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Club exclusives...that is exciting. Except for the fact one is "pony ranch" and one is "farm" I really can't see anything that great from these. :-\ The dragon knights theme is not high on my list either. But hopefully these are a precursor of things to come.
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I'm interested to see what the zoo sets would be, since we have a current zoo theme. ??? Would they be cheaper versions, Made in China, I wonder? Since all these SKUs do start with 5. ::)
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It's a scary thought indeed that they will make club exclusives in China. It sems counter productive to give the collectors inferior product. Then again all just rumour of course.
As a member of the PCC Pilot Group Board this is the first I hear about it!
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So it goes, huh? :-\
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First I've heard of it too. I wouldn't worry too much about the made in China part. It looks like atypical list of new releases to me so could be made in the usual places.
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Maybe they've just run out of 4*** numbers! ;D
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I hope making sets in China isn't becoming a trend :uhoh:
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I don't care about China guys.... it can't be worse that Antex. :'( :'( :'(
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I don't care about China guys.... it can't be worse that Antex. :'( :'( :'(
Do you have the fire truck ?
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Do you have the fire truck ?
no, no fire trucks at all.
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I don't care about China guys.... it can't be worse that Antex. :'( :'( :'(
Don't be so sure!
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wait a minute, playmobil has made sets in china before? please excuse my ignorance if that is a dumb question, but i have never seen any playmobils made in china. the fact that they are not made in china is one of the big reasons our family is attracted to playmobils!!
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Just a few US exclusive sets, including the cheap firetruck sold at Toys r Us, and the new schoolbus. :-\
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wait a minute, playmobil has made sets in china before? please excuse my ignorance if that is a dumb question, but i have never seen any playmobils made in china. the fact that they are not made in china is one of the big reasons our family is attracted to playmobils!!
That's exactly what makes this recent event such a hard pill to swallow, gisa! The European quality is not shown in the Made in China sets, & we're afraid it could cause people to form a bad opinion regarding the reputation of Playmobil.
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I think all the Micro sets, the chicken dragon set, the fire truck and now these. Geobra claims under 5%-ish from china
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My wife brought the firetruck home with here after her US trip not knowing about the qualitiy issues. With the huge number of people that have returned it, who knows my MISB one in the attic might be a valuable collectors item in 25 years.
:giggle:
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Maybe they've just run out of 4*** numbers! ;D
American exclusives often (always?) begin with 5 I believe.
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I hope making sets in China isn't becoming a trend :uhoh:
Is there any suggestion that these sets are made in China?
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I think all the Micro sets, the chicken dragon set, the fire truck and now these. Geobra claims under 5%-ish from china
I didn't realise that the Micro sets were made in China. I have three or four of them and they seem fine for quality.
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My wife brought the firetruck home with here after her US trip not knowing about the qualitiy issues. With the huge number of people that have returned it, who knows my MISB one in the attic might be a valuable collectors item in 25 years.
:giggle:
no no no...you should open it and make a review ;D
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who knowing more about this Items, maybe pics????? :love:
regrads Klicky32
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no no no...you should open it and make a review ;D
I can think of many reasons not too including we already have a fire engine that we never use so why have another one (I really DO wonder what prompted my wife to buy the one from the US).
It will stay sealed for the next 25 years I am sure!!
You will not persuade me!!
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I wonder how much more it would have cost to reuse this mould:
http://playmodb.org/setpics/3778.jpg
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Regarding the "China question," according to this article on the Playmobil website, (http://store.playmobilusa.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-US-Site/en_US/Link-Page?id=TOYWORLD) Playmobil no longer uses production facilities in China. Some sets were manufactured in China over a short period ending a few years ago. Playmobil claims that their standards were just as high for goods made in China as for goods made in Europe, and that seems to hold true based on what some folks have said here (I think so, too.) One internet source (http://www.chinafreechristmas.info/2007/08/playmobil-made-in-germany.html)indicates that the following sets were manufactured in China:
3670 - Remote Control Module
4330 - Fairy Tale Castle Mini
4331 - Pirate Mini
4332 - Noah's Ark Mini
4333 - Knights Castle Mini
4397 - Electrical Signal
4450 - Bunny Workshop
4451 - Bunny w/Wheelbarrow
4452 - Bunny
4453 - Bunny w/wagon
4454 - Bunnies with Hiding Place
5803 - Knight's Take Along Castle
5804 - Pirates Take Along Island
7350 - Underwater Motor
. . . Any SKU starting with a 5 is made in China . . .
So that would be the barcode on the box, not the set number. All of us can check any boxes we have to see if this holds true for the items on the list above or if any items should be added to the list. Is there anything else that barcodes can tell us?
It seems clear that no new items are being produced in China. Thinner plastic or different types of plastic may just be indicators of newer manufacturing processes rather than an indication of being made in China.
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If it's a matter of poorere quality from their normal factories, then that really is a cause for concern! As to whether it is the sku number or set number, I don't know, I was distracted last night. It seems someone else said sku number, but I think we were speaking of set numbers.
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Any SKU starting with a 5 is made in China. It's surprising to see this happen.
I have the micro castle set on my desk (4333) and the barcode begins with a 4 and on the outer it says "tested by LGA", a quality control body for
furniture, household goods and toys in Germany. Here's what I found about it:
LGA certification certifies a product’s high and consistent quality. It confirms the safety and performance capability of a product and therefore its comprehensive quality. It is a guarantee that technical requirements for safety have been met and that they are tested and regularly monitored by the independent institution LGA.
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Back to the topic of the list with new sets (see 1st post):
I've received a PM on Klickywelt, from the person that published the list there:
He writes he is very upset that I have shared his information here, and that he will never again publish information about new sets, and he thanks me for being the cause of that.
He has removed his information from where I found it on Klickywelt.
I've replied by asking why sharing info with the non-German speaking Playmobil-community is such a problem. I also added he could have shared his view on my "information-copying" in more friendly words, then I might have considered asking Sylvia to remove the list.
I didn't mention the war.
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I don't understand why he is so upset about sharing information to fellow Playmobil lovers. :eh?:
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I don't understand why he is so upset about sharing information to fellow Playmobil lovers. :eh?:
Maybe he believes that knowledge is power and wants to keep it all for himself.
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I find this quite puzzling, as I have seen on klickywelt a link to a topic here with pictures I posted announcing new US exclusives.... I don't mind this AT ALL, but it's strange to think that they would mind if the situation were reversed. ???
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I've replied by asking why sharing info with the non-German speaking Playmobil-community is such a problem.
I am very curious to see if he will answer and wat will that answer be.
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A link (to text or picture) is one thing. It's no problem, I think.
But if you copy pictures or text (infos?), you have to ask the author (Copyright).
This is perhaps the reason for the trouble of/with the author.
Copyright
All material on this page and the following is protected by copyright. Any use of commercial or noncommercial nature is not permitted without my consent or the consent of the post author.
If you wish to use material from this site or show, write me an e-mail: xxx@xxx.de or contact the post author.
Every member in Klickywelt accepted this.
PS: I am not the author of this text an not of the US Sets Text...
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A link (to text or picture) is one thing. It's no problem, I think.
Yes, but links to kw are useless because we cannot see the pics, whereas I purposely post my pics in such a way anyone can see them. I don't see any reason not to share.
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Hadoque, in my opinion you have done nothing wrong! You told us the source of your information and, without repeating anyone else's statements, you merely repeated a list of set numbers and names (which you possibly also translated into English?) Despite the disclaimer that zugpferdchen mentions, klickywelt is an internet web site that anyone in the world can read. To say that one cannot repeat information that is posted there is like saying that you cannot discuss a news story posted on the website of a newspaper or magazine. Ridiculous! >:(
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A link (to text or picture) is one thing. It's no problem, I think.
But if you copy pictures or text (infos?), you have to ask the author (Copyright).
This is perhaps the reason for the trouble of/with the author.
I wonder, was this text or picture originally created by the person who also created the set? I mean,was this text or picture placed on Klickywelt by Playmobil? Or this guy is a close friend to playmobil and he has exclusivity from Playmobil to share these pictures and text, and everybody need to take his permission to list it somewhere else?
I am sorry, but I cannot understand why, if this person is not the manufacturer, or legally representic the manufacturer, he claims a copyright on lists and images first distributed by playmobil (who are the only ones to claim copyright on their pictures and texts)?
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Exactly, Indianna. I don't think that copyright policy is legally sound. They can say it, but it wouldn't hold up in court. Copying a photo story and claiming it as your own would be one thing, but this is different!
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Hadoque, in my opinion you have done nothing wrong! You told us the source of your information and, without repeating anyone else's statements, you merely repeated a list of set numbers and names (which you possibly also translated into English?) Despite the disclaimer that zugpferdchen mentions, klickywelt is an internet web site that anyone in the world can read. To say that one cannot repeat information that is posted there is like saying that you cannot discuss a news story posted on the website of a newspaper or magazine. Ridiculous! >:(
yes I agree, absolutly ridiculous!
I find this quite puzzling, as I have seen on klickywelt a link to a topic here with pictures I posted announcing new US exclusives.... I don't mind this AT ALL, but it's strange to think that they would mind if the situation were reversed. ???
so if I understand correctly, WE CAN'T quote them or use any of their info but THEY CAN use ours, link us or copy us without permission??? mmm they are lovely.
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so if I understand correctly, WE CAN'T quote them or use any of their info but THEY CAN use ours, link us or copy us without permission??? mmm they are lovely.
And who is »they«?
One thing is the technical problem (here it is open, in KW it is closed)
Copyright in both directions, I think: If someone wants to post infos/pictures from here, he has to ask the author.
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No one asked my permission before linking to my thread. ;)
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One thing is the technical problem (here it is open, in KW it is closed)
Sorry I don't get that... what is open and what is closed? In klickywelt all is locked up in a vault and here in playmofriends we have everything open up in the public? is that what you mean?
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I agree, you cited your source. I don't see the issue. I mean isn't that taking things just a little too seriously? ::) What is wrong with information exchange??? Isn't all of this in good fun?
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Sorry I don't get that... what is open and what is closed? In klickywelt all is locked up in a vault and here in playmofriends we have everything open up in the public? is that what you mean?
I mean:
You said, that texts here at Playmofriends could be read without login. In the Klickywelt you can't.
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And who is »they«?
One thing is the technical problem (here it is open, in KW it is closed)
Copyright in both directions, I think: If someone wants to post infos/pictures from here, he has to ask the author.
"they" are the people from klickywelt who CAN (') quote and link bonniebeth without her permission.
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Which, again, I do not mind at all!!! I just don't think they should mind either.
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No one asked my permission before linking to my thread. ;)
Only if one takes the photos or the text, he/she has to ask you (links are ok without asking).
I agree, you cited your source. I don't see the issue. I mean isn't that taking things just a little too seriously? ::) What is wrong with information exchange??? Isn't all of this in good fun?
I only want to inform you, what I am understanding. I am not the representative of the Klickywelt and of all opinions there.
If I have an information or photo and someone asks me to post it here, I would say ok (or I post it myself here).
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Which, again, I do not mind at all!!! I just don't think they should mind either.
I mind if they mind ;)
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I mean:
You said, that texts here at Playmofriends could be read without login. In the Klickywelt you can't.
So you are telling us that anyone from klickywelt can quote and link something from here to there, as tonguello and bonniebeth have already told you, without permission, just pecause it is public, whereas one cannot quote or link from Klickywelt to other forums because you require to be logged in? Seriously?
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It seems Klickywelt wants to be an exclusive Playmobil forum. They want to keep any information on their forum & not allow it to be circulated to other sources. It also appears that there has been rules that joining members are required to agree to, & any rules that are not followed can cause problems for their members that fail to do so.
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So you are telling us that anyone from klickywelt can quote and link something from here to there, as tonguello and bonniebeth have already told you, without permission, just because it is public, whereas one cannot quote or link from Klickywelt to other forums because you require to be logged in? Seriously?
Please don't mix up Copyright and technical conditions.
You can also put (computer-) rights to the forum Playmofriends, so that no one can read texts without login.
And: Linking is possible in both directions, but the Playmofriends Users can't use this link without login at Klickywelt (it useless for most of us here).
Quoting is another thing: Texts here are open to read, but they are also not public (-> Copyright). If someone will take a photo or information/text to another forum, he has to ask to get permission.
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But no one has copied and pasted information from kw, only repeated what they heard there, saying that it came from Klickywelt! I cannot see what could possibly be wrong with this. As Indianna said, it's like hearing something on the news and calling your friend and telling him!
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Please don't mix up Copyright and technical conditions.
You made it sound a few posts back like they were both the same.
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I mean:
You said, that texts here at Playmofriends could be read without login. In the Klickywelt you can't.
Actually, it is the same at both places. Anyone can read the posts at both Klickywelt and Playmofriends without logging in but they can't see pictures without being registered and logged in (except for photos hosted by a third-party site such as image shack.)
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It seems Klickywelt wants to be an exclusive Playmobil forum. They want to keep any information on their forum & not allow it to be circulated to other sources. It also appears that there has been rules that joining members are required to agree to, & any rules that are not followed can cause problems for their members that fail to do so.
NO!
Don't put all members in one pot. Only SOME (!) of the KW-users don't want to share informations with other forums.
Did you get the infos of the new catalog from KW or did you not? Yes, the KW mods shared the informations with the PF.
I don't know the US Right. But in Germany a forum has to protect itself and the owner against people who will sue (right word?) them and get money for it, if they do something wrong (e.g. copying pictures).
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We did get the info from there, after an argument quite similar to this one that seems to be occurring repeatedly! I continue to be confused as to whether this... reluctance to share is coming from a few individual members, or whether this is an attitude supported and promoted by the admin of that site. i would really like some clearer answers on this.
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Bottom line is, I'm trying to understand why this is such an issue. These are toys for Pete's sake! All information shared should make Playmobil happy there are concerned consumers out here that actually give a flip! Trying to pretend there is a super secret atomic weapon like punishable by death if talked about new toy set is ridiculous!
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I agree. There is absolutely no point to this secrecy! The fan community all over the world should have equal rights to know about new releases. And come on, these are smiling plastic toys, not national secrets!
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But in Germany a forum has to protect itself and the owner against people who will sue (right word?) them and get money for it, if they do something wrong (e.g. copying pictures).
Again, I am asking, are these people playmobil officials? The people who put pictures on KW and claim copyright over them? How does one, who is not professionally and legally associated with playmobil, claim copyright over a picture, or a list that is playmobil property? Those few members, as you said, who don't want to share this information why do they not want to share it?
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Actually, it is the same at both places. Anyone can read the posts at both Klickywelt and Playmofriends without logging in but they can't see pictures without being registered and logged in (except for photos hosted by a third-party site such as image shack.)
I tested it. You are right and I was wrong in THIS POINT. Both texts could be read without login.
It's difficult for me to answer questions and assertions of many members here and my english is not so fluently. So you post 3 new texts and I answer 1... (stress)
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3 inch tall figures with perma-grins are SERIOUS BUSINESS! :shhhh: :shhhh:
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Again, I am asking, are these people playmobil officials? The people who put pictures on KW and claim copyright over them? How does one, who is not professionally and legally associated with playmobil, claim copyright over a picture, or a list that is playmobil property?
If he made the photo himself, he is the owner of the Copyright over THIS photo. You can post others (selfmade)...
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But there has been a lot of fuss made over stock pictures from playmobil, not self-made pictures.
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If he made the photo himself, he is the owner of the Copyright over THIS photo. You can post others (selfmade)...
I can understand this for a picture of a custom, a diorama, or a picture of a displayed collection... but for a picture of the box? So someone can go into a toy shop, take a picture of a playmobil set and then claim copyright over that picture and say ''if you want to share you need my approval''?
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Let's not all jump on poor zugpferdchen who, in my opinion, is only trying to be helpful! :wave:
I think most of the folks at klickywelt and at playmofriends are all nice people who want to share information and ideas freely. We have some problems, though. Differences in language, customs, and even laws may sometimes get in the way of complete understanding. Regarding copyright law, however, I am pretty sure that there is not any copyright protection for the type of conversation that goes on in an internet forum. On the other hand, if someone posts a written story, a photo or photostory, a poem, a painting or drawing, or any original work that he or she created, then that would be protected by copyright. Referencing someone else's work is usually permitted under the concept of "fair use." Most countries seem to have the same approaches to copyright isues but if a particular country has different laws they would only be applicable in that particular country.
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My point exactly. Someone's artistic work, and a piece of news, are two totally different things.
And yes, Zug, we don't mean to attack you personally! We're full of questions, and you seem to be the one stuck trying to answer them all. Thank you for trying to help.
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NO!
Don't put all members in one pot. Only SOME (!) of the KW-users don't want to share informations with other forums.
Did you get the infos of the new catalog from KW or did you not? Yes, the KW mods shared the informations with the PF.
I don't know the US Right. But in Germany a forum has to protect itself and the owner against people who will sue (right word?) them and get money for it, if they do something wrong (e.g. copying pictures).
Who are these some people? If information is so prone to be sued over, Klickywelt should not allow any pictures or discussion about Playmobil in general! You say some KW-users don't want to share information to other forums, & I ask why? What is so secret that they wish to be so stingy? As I have stated before, these are just TOYS! It isn't like anyone is going to manufacture a look a like to steal their ideas. All we want to do, is discuss them & share the same enthusiasm like parents of a new baby! Really, it sounds like a bunch of little kids saying nanny nanny boo boo, I'm not going to share with you!
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:lol:
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Indianna, don't copyrights need to be registered? Are you saying if I post a picture of a diorama here, & someone else copies it, I can sue saying they stole my ideas just because I did it first?
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Yes, copyrights must be registered. I suppose the better word for the issue would be plagiarism. And again, no one has copied anyone's written text and claimed it as their own, so it's a non-issue, IMO.
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As zugpferdchen has correctly pointed out, the person who takes a photo would hold the copyright to that photo, even if it is just a photo of a Playmobil box on a store shelf or a photo of a Playmobil catalog. I know it sounds ridiculous, but that is the way it works, and that's the way it should work, IMHO. The fact that the person is taking a photo of a Playmobil item (box or catalog) is an example of "fair use" just the way that it is OK to take photos of other people's displays at a convention and then post those photos online (as long as the photographer is not also claiming to have created the photo subject.)
It would seem to be simple good manners to ask before copying photos from one website to another (as most people seem to do already.) In my opinion, though, it should not be necessary to ask if it is all right to post a link to something in another website - that is the nature of the internet and if someone posts something to a website he or she should be glad that someone else thinks it is worthy of notice. The case that started this whole conversation was that Hadoque simply repeated a list of set names and numbers, something which does not violate copyright in any way.
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Indianna, don't copyrights need to be registered?
Nope
Are you saying if I post a picture of a diorama here, & someone else copies it, I can sue saying they stole my ideas just because I did it first?
Yep
Actually, I think they would have to claim it as their original work and maybe make money off of it. And you'd have to prove that they copied it from you. Hey, I'm not lawyer - is there a lawyer in the house??
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Indianna, don't copyrights need to be registered? Are you saying if I post a picture of a diorama here, & someone else copies it, I can sue saying they stole my ideas just because I did it first?
No, not because you did it first. They stole not your ideas, they stole your picture. You have the copyright of your pictures (you made).
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Yes, copyrights must be registered. I suppose the better word for the issue would be plagiarism. And again, no one has copied anyone's written text and claimed it as their own, so it's a non-issue, IMO.
Thank you, bb! That's what I thought. If something is quoted or used & doesn't have a copy right, then it's fair game in other words. I've written things & others have used them with my permission. They didn't have a copy right, so if someone wanted to take credit for them, it would be too bad so sad, Bill. That's the chance we all take sharing things.
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No, not because you did it first. They stole not your ideas, they stole your picture. You have the copyright of your pictures (you made).
You're right about the photo, but the creator of the original diorama also has a copyright on its design.
But the bottom line is that nobody is going to sue anybody unless there is a lot of money involved. A copyright does not have to be registered. Check out the Wikipedia explanation of copyright. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright)
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But no one has copied and pasted information from kw, only repeated what they heard there, saying that it came from Klickywelt!
Well, I did use the copy & paste function, as I didn't want to spend a whole hour on rewriting number by number all those set-serials and word by word the description for each listed set.
Anyone who would make a fuss about such difference is an IDIOT BORN ON THE DARK SIDE OF PLUTO!
But that's not the point I think; whether I rewrote the text - I didn't translate it, it was already in English(*) - or used copy and paste.
The point has been made by all the members here responding above!
(*): the fact that it was already in English, makes me believe the original source - from where the Klickywelt-guy got his intel - was NOT German.
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Copyright laws vary from country to country so it's not possible to state categorically how copyright applies to this situation or similar situations, especially as the text may be written in one country and read/copied/pasted in another.
My personal view would be that I would have no objection to someone copying something in a post of mine such as a list which can be obtained or created by anyone simply by searching for it somewhere. I would take a different view, however, if someone used a photo I had taken or a story I had written without acknowledging the source of it and, better still, asking me first.
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I am not a lawyer, but my local SCA group recently had a case
where Walmart stole the design of one of our artisans, and put it on a tee-shirt!
You do not need to register it or even make money off the design,
You draw it or paint it or whatever and it is automatically copyrighted.
(As Gordon says they vary, but these are the laws in the US)
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(*): the fact that it was already in English, makes me believe the original source - from where the Klickywelt-guy got his intel - was NOT German.
???
Perhaps the original source is german: Geobra. They also write some international texts in English.
A seller, who got that early informations from Geobra and told them to this guy (or this guy IS the seller who got the infomations directly from Geobra?) who posted at KW.
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I think you are safe, Hadoque, as long as you never again travel to the dark side of Pluto! :lol:
The bottom line is, I think, that regular conversation, whether spoken or written, does not rise to the level of a protected work (unless, perhaps, one is Dorothy Parker or Oscar Wilde. ;) )
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???
Perhaps the original source is german: Geobra. They also write some international texts in English.
A seller, who got that early informations from Geobra and told them to this guy (or this guy IS the seller who got the infomations directly from Geobra?) who posted at KW.
Yes, that's possible. But if it is in English because it came from Geobra, that most probably means the description is intended for use on... the INTERNATIONAL market.
If the "klickwelt-guy" - or his source - did not want the information to be publicly known, then why the heck post it on Klickywelt where people can read it?
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I think you are safe, Hadoque, as long as you never again travel to the dark side of Pluto! :lol:
I'll use a 7th generation stealth-fighter next time ;)
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I just saw...
Someone on "Klickywelt" copied from here and posted to their forum... the list which I found on their forum and copied here and which was deleted on their forum afterwards! This is going 8} :lol: :lol:
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After being corrected about the definition of copy right, that sheds an entire different light on this issue. The original composer has specific rights that are enforced differently from country to country where the source is stored. It may prove to be acknowledged that you can be prosecuted for continued pasting of information without consent from the original source. Although this is a toy forum, laws determine how information is shared. It's a shame others are not as friendly with sharing as others, which makes it a question of should we be more protective of our forum information?
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I just saw...
Someone on "Klickywelt" copied from here and posted to their forum... the list which I found on their forum and copied here and which was deleted on their forum afterwards! This is going 8} :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
:munch: :munch: :munch:
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I just saw...
Someone on "Klickywelt" copied from here and posted to their forum... the list which I found on their forum and copied here and which was deleted on their forum afterwards! This is going 8} :lol: :lol:
Or did they write it down and then type it in on kw? ??? ??? ???
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After being corrected about the definition of copy right, that sheds an entire different light on this issue. The original composer has specific rights that are enforced differently from country to country where the source is stored. It may prove to be acknowledged that you can be prosecuted for continued pasting of information without consent from the original source. Although this is a toy forum, laws determine how information is shared. It's a shame others are not as friendly with sharing as others, which makes it a question of should we be more protective of our forum information?
Bill, I don't think that any normal conversation which takes place here at Playmofriends (or elsewhere) rises to the level of an original work protected by copyright, so I don't think we have to worry about that. You could post that "Indianna is a silly dodo-head" and, no matter how clever, original, and witty this might be, anyone would be free to copy and paste it or say it to other people. Now if you were to create a Playmobil diorama that expresses the same idea you could justifiably complain if someone else took credit for it. But I doubt that you would bother to sue them in court over it unless they were making money from it. Now, if Walmart put it on a T-shirt . . . . :hmm: :lol:
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Bill, I don't think that any normal conversation which takes place here at Playmofriends (or elsewhere) rises to the level of an original work protected by copyright, so I don't think we have to worry about that. You could post that "Indianna is a silly dodo-head" and, no matter how clever, original, and witty this might be, anyone would be free to copy and paste it or say it to other people. Now if you were to create a Playmobil diorama that expresses the same idea you could justifiably complain if someone else took credit for it. But I doubt that you would bother to sue them in court over it unless they were making money from it. Now, if Walmart put it on a T-shirt . . . . :hmm: :lol:
But that is what is being discussed regarding this situation, Indianna. Klickywelt is accusing individuals here of stealing their information & contributing it here, violating a copyright situation. How far can this situation go? Will this make individuals not want to share information if they're always called into question? Legal actions may not be done but the constant accusations will cause people to with hold information in the future.
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reading the copyright definition that indianna posted, I understand that it refers to "works" that has any type of artistic nature or at least some "creativity" basis.
So we all agree it applays to photographs, photostories, dioramas, even customs, etc, etc. All of them with a creativity process.
Now....information has any creation process??? beside the fact that someone had to type it??? ::)
I don't think so. Information is to repeat and to pass what one learnt. So information would not enter in the definition of copyright.
A list of possible new sets IMO is information, therefore, what copyright has to do with it. Information is meant to inform. Information goes mouth to mouth..... as someone said, no one calls the news to ask permittion to tell a friend what they saw on tv.
So maybe next time no one should said that "certain info" was read in "certain forum". Just post it as general info.
"hey I've heard that......bla bla bla."
Problem solved. :glasses:
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Very well said, Gaston. And I agree 100%!
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Yes, very well said! Is there some way we could work out some kind of friendly truce with klickywelt? After all, I think we all have the same interest at heart :D
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Yes, I've been thinking on this too. I wonder if we could have an agreement between us about sharing things. Information and news specifically.
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From the way it sounds, there is a split between the members on Klickywelt. Some are willing to share while others have no intentions of ever sharing. I would like to know what side has the majority there. It may come down to finding out who would be the person in charge to ask & reasons why if nonmutual sharing is determined.
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I don't understand what the hangup about sharing would be anyway since both sites are PUBLIC anyway :eh?:
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who has ( had) Pics from this new Items????
greetings KLicky32
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who has ( had) Pics from this new Items????
greetings KLicky32
we haven't seen any pic of those items
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who has ( had) Pics from this new Items????
greetings KLicky32
Noone has.
My comments:
1. This is not a case of Klickywelt against PF. Klickywelt is very correct about any possible legal issues because they want to protect their owner from being sued for stupid things/errors/mischief he has not done but would be held responsible for. If in doubt they chose to be very picky. They surely claim no rights they would not grant to others, share their own information and respect without doubt the rights and claims of others too and will act (even without request) if they get to know about any issues. They are not disclosing information on their own and are not in other way responsible nor can they do anything about if like in this case single users of them claim to have rights on their 'work' or input that they actually have or assume to have.
2. It might be that if a certain amount of effort has been invested into something the result can be under copyright too. E.g. if one makes a digital typewrite of some old (hence not copyrighted anymore) book he maybe can claim to have rights about this text (in his electronic preparation, not the text itself) that prevent it from just being copied and used elsewhere (even if available on the internet for reading). At least such claims frequently can be found while e.g. Project Gutenberg explicitly allows the use of it's texts. Copyright applies to any picture no matter how creative it is or how skillfully made and might hence apply to any text no matter if 1000 pages or just a few lines.
3. This kw member is (as far as I am aware) always very strict about copyright issues and not only his own. E.g. he fought (as a kw moderator) stubbornly a long struggle against all who copied pictures from Playmodb just for reference after Heather had asked not to copy them.
4. Maybe he got upset too because he did not want this piece of information roaming around all over the place prematurely to 'protect' his sources. It is after all the first mention of pcc exclusive sets of which noone has ever heard before. :shhhh:
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I can fully see and understand his point about copyright and everything. However putting it "somewhere" on the internet and then expecting it to not go further then the intended group is usually not a very good strategy.
Thank you very much for your elaborate answer HM!
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4. Maybe he got upset too because he did not want this piece of information roaming around all over the place prematurely to 'protect' his sources. It is after all the first mention of pcc exclusive sets of which noone has ever heard before. :shhhh:
Surely, then, he should not have published it on an open forum but on an area open only to kw members and with a warning that it should be limited to kw members. Maybe, it would have been better not to have published it all. Maybe, too, it is time that there was a know, formal structure to the PCC which includes the publishing of news such as this.
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Maybe, too, it is time that there was a know, formal structure to the PCC which includes the publishing of news such as this.
Well spoken.
However putting it "somewhere" on the internet and then expecting it to not go further then the intended group is usually not a very good strategy.
Indeed, it is not. If you want to keep it don't put it on the internet. But in this case some of those involved might just not have been aware that it was not just a list or that there might be other issues connected with it. But this should not cause difficulties between forums that are about to collaborate on the pcc and other common interests.
Speaking about 5959: I would have preferred if they would have kept the knights and had given us just dragoons.
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Surely, then, he should not have published it on an open forum but on an area open only to kw members and with a warning that it should be limited to kw members. Maybe, it would have been better not to have published it all. Maybe, too, it is time that there was a know, formal structure to the PCC which includes the publishing of news such as this.
I totally agree Gordon and Gis!
:)9
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THis borders on the ridiculous. We're talking about a list of numbers. Are these numbers launch codes to nuclear weapons? No? Oh thats right, just a list of new TOYS that are going to be released. In the past it seemed like alot of new info came from KW. What has changed or is it a good ol case of "I don't wanna share my toys" 8} 8} 8} 8} 8} 8} 8}
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PF hosted the PCC pilot group, shouldn't we be getting this information first, anyway?
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PF hosted the PCC pilot group, shouldn't we be getting this information first, anyway?
The pcc should get such information first. I guess it was supposed to be this way in this case too.
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PF hosted the PCC pilot group, shouldn't we be getting this information first, anyway?
I think that PF as such is not entitled to anything, The Pilot Group Board (of which I am a member and which is officially disolved) would IMO be the persons who should hear this first so that they can make sure that this information is spread to ALL the collectors at the same time.
I don't think this is a mater where Geobra wanted to share anything. It's a leak, and as it goes with leaks you don't know where it is going to happen otherwise you would have made preventive measurements.
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Maybe it's time for us to consider adopting some guidelines around this issue. We probably all learned pretty much the same "rules" in school about how to cite sources when writing a paper or preparing a speech. Those rules are basically what "fair use" is all about. Internet etiquette is probably much looser but it doesn't have to be.
Here is one very simple suggestion:
When interesting information is discovered on an internet source and you wish to share that info with others, simply provide a link to that source. If someone doesn't want links made to their on-line comments then they shouldn't be posting their info in a public forum.
One obstacle is that a person needs to be a logged-in member on a site like Playmofriends or Klickywelt in order to see photos. In a case like that we can help people figure out how to become members. People can also continue to ask for permission to copy and re-post original photos (just like so many people have already done in the past.)
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Sounds very good Indianna!
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A link (to text or picture) is one thing. It's no problem, I think.
But if you copy pictures or text (infos?), you have to ask the author (Copyright).
This is perhaps the reason for the trouble of/with the author.
Quote from: Klickywelt Copyright
Copyright
All material on this page and the following is protected by copyright. Any use of commercial or noncommercial nature is not permitted without my consent or the consent of the post author.
If you wish to use material from this site or show, write me an e-mail: xxx@xxx.de or contact the post author.
Every member in Klickywelt accepted this.
PS: I am not the author of this text an not of the US Sets Text...
Zugpferdchen, could you please let me know where this quote comes from on the Klickywelt site? When I originally signed up over there I was struggling with the language difference - now that the framework can be seen in English, I thought I should know what I was agreeing to! ;)
Also, I was checking Klickywelt (and Playmofriends, too) to see if there is any policy about linking to the site from other websites. I couldn't find anything in either location. As far as I can tell, the only rules at either site are about activity on the site itself with no prohibitions or limits on linking to the sites. Has anyone seen any other rules about this?
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I agree that the klickywelt member is probably trying to protect his source, but you can't protect something (as many have already commented), when you post on the net! This whole secrecy business will hopefully come to an end when we have our established playmobil collectors club full of transparency and shared enthusiasm.
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Most of what I would have to say has been said by others already.
One point not made is that this could all be fiction. There is nothing to show that any of these sets do or will exist. Of course if it's fiction then it would be a creative work and under copyright... :P
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Most of what I would have to say has been said by others already.
One point not made is that this could all be fiction. There is nothing to show that any of these sets do or will exist. Of course if it's fiction then it would be a creative work and under copyright... :P
:o :o :o
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Is anyone here a lawyer? :lol:
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No, just arm chair quarterbacks! :lol:
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Most of what I would have to say has been said by others already.
One point not made is that this could all be fiction. There is nothing to show that any of these sets do or will exist. Of course if it's fiction then it would be a creative work and under copyright... :P
Interesting point, Tim. It could even be a subtle form of market research by Geobra. :)
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THis borders on the ridiculous. We're talking about a list of numbers. Are these numbers launch codes to nuclear weapons? No? Oh thats right, just a list of new TOYS that are going to be released. In the past it seemed like alot of new info came from KW. What has changed or is it a good ol case of "I don't wanna share my toys" 8} 8} 8} 8} 8} 8} 8}
Sad, but true I'm afraid!
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One point not made is that this could all be fiction. There is nothing to show that any of these sets do or will exist.
:hmm:
I wouldn't make up a list of fictional sets and I'm sure the source on Klickywelt didn't make it up either; he's part of the forum-administration and responsible for all info regarding non-German sets. You could say his source might have made it up, but that seems a farfetched and unlikely scenario IMHO.
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I didn't mention the war. :lol: 8}
Hadoque, I almost fell off my chair laughing at that last line. I kept thinking of Basil Fawlty " don't mention the war! ".
" Don't tell him your name Pike! "
This whole copying issue would be funny if it was not actually sad.
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It's interesting to hear this person is part of the forum administration of kw. That may answer one of my questions.
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It almost makes me not want to associate with KW due to all of these politics. Drama is not a thing to look for.
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I take the opposite view, and wonder if we could try to have some sort of truce between us, if the mod teams from the two sites could try to work out an information-sharing agreement. I'm always for trying to make peace, I'm also sick of the drama.
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I disagree. It will take the entire forums to make it happen not just moderators, & for some reason there are some KW members determined not to cooperate.
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"He" replied to me yesterday-evening: He said the info wasn't supposed to be spread further to the other forums because of it's sensitive nature and he had hoped that not to many people would read it on KW, because the info wasn't supposed to be known/released yet.
He added there was is no intention from him to withhold information from others, but he has to protect his source...
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If it was so sensitive, why would he even post it on to the world wide accessible web? :hmm: If things are to be kept private don't put it in a place to be seen by the world! :lol:
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I'm sorry, but that is THE STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard!!! He posts it on the internet, and hopes not to many people read it?!?! ??? ??? ???
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I'm sorry, but that is THE STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard!!! He posts it on the internet, and hopes not to many people read it?!?! ??? ??? ???
I've just re-read what he wrote and I must correct; he didn't explicetly say "he hoped not to many people would read it", but that is what I generally understand from his message.
He did say "he had liked that I would have asked for permission by PM before spreading the word", and he writes "appearantly the PCC Pilot Group didn't know about it" so I guess he tought they did know about the sets... ???
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But couldn't any german-speaking person in the entire world read this information that he posted, not only members of the forum? :hmm: So it was made public information but only to those who speak german?
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The information was made public. Anyone could access it. That reasoning just doesn't make any sense. I really hate drama, especially over something so silly 8}
P.S. Did you see my post about how to translate the posts themselves within Klickywelt as well as the entire site? You don't need to speak German to read their posts ;D
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hello,
??? it is so strange what happened to hadoque.
i am also a member of KW and i never had any problems there.
whenever i got some written info coming from there i always include the name of the KW member who posted it and usually add a "praise". :wow:
in the case of pictures i have to ways:
- in the case of a "closed" picture (accessible only when you log in) i ask for permition to post it here (and i always had a favorable response);
- if it is an "open" picture i just act as if it was an "open" text and use it without permission but adding the source and a praise.
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P.S. Did you see my post about how to translate the posts themselves within Klickywelt as well as the entire site? You don't need to speak German to read their posts ;D
Yes, I did! Thanks for that. I find computer translations somewhat frustrating to try to understand, but it's better than nothing.
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The information was made public. Anyone could access it. That reasoning just doesn't make any sense. I really hate drama, especially over something so silly 8}
P.S. Did you see my post about how to translate the posts themselves within Klickywelt as well as the entire site? You don't need to speak German to read their posts ;D
ohmygodness i totally agree - one of the reasons I LOVE playmofriends is that (unlike other forums) Sylvia and the moderators team have never allowed drama and have kept a friendly, peaceful and a fight-free enviroment all these years.
even if that person posted that information in German you can choose your language on KW
at first i thought we were facing a culture clash with all this (ridiculous) issue going on, but this might be just someone's mistake that is becoming a big and unnecessary drama...
PS didn't really want to post anything, but i felt i had to...
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Your opinion is always welcome here Luis. As you said, it's a ridiculous issue!
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But couldn't any german-speaking person in the entire world read this information that he posted, not only members of the forum?
Yes, the thread about US- and non-German exclusives is accessable without being registered on KW. Seeing pics only works if you're logged in though.
:hmm: So it was made public information but only to those who speak german?
Well, since it is a German forum almost everyone posts in German on KW. There was no intention to make it readable to German-speaking people only, but he didn't distribute the info to other forums. He isn't obliged to post it on international forums as well...
BTW: There are interesting forum-sections on KW that are only readable when you are a registrated member there:
these are "Themenwelten" (theme-worlds) subboards with pictures, customs, etc... These don't show up when you're not logged in.
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. . . BTW: There are interesting forum-sections on KW that are only readable when you are a registrated member there:
these are "Themenwelten" (theme-worlds) subboards with pictures, customs, etc... These don't show up when you're not logged in.
Just like here at Playmofriends - The Common Room, for example. :)
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Your opinion is always welcome here Luis. As you said, it's a ridiculous issue!
thanks, BB! :)
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thanks, BB! :)
I wouldn't have said it if I didn't mean it! ;)