PlaymoFriends
General => Brainstorming For Playmobil => Topic started by: Hadoque on April 30, 2011, 00:44:22
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Hi
I've read on "Klickywelt" that some German ebay-sellers have received a more then 8-pages letter from the lawyers of Geobra.
Reason is the ebay-listings of these sellers contain parts of klickies (like legs, torsos, heads, wigs, etc). I'm not sure if selling removable/wearable parts (hats, cuffs, ...) are also subject for possible lawsuit (*).
(*): Possible lawsuit = an assumption, as I don't know the content of the supposed letters.
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Where did those sellers get their supplies? ???
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I don't know, it's all the info I have.
Does it mattter? If the sellers get their supplies in a fishy way, probably yes, and then action from Geobra is understandable.
But if possibly objection from Geobra is/could be/will be orientated against everyone who sells parts of klickies, it may become problematic for customizers...
Suppose:
One buys 10 klickies for customizing from a shop, DS, second-hand, whatever... This person uses the arms and torsos of the klickies, but has no use for the legs. He/she tries to exchange the parts for other wanted parts with other collectors, but that doesn't work out so he/she decides to sell them on ebay. If this gets prohibited, what does one do with all the parts one doesn't have use for?
Other-way-around-example:
One is looking for 10 pairs of legs to make customs. Not whole klickies. If you can get these specific parts on ebay or you have to order 10 whole klickies from DS; it will make a big difference in your wallet.
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If they are buying PM sets and reselling parts, then what's the problem?
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If they are buying PM sets and reselling parts, then what's the problem?
My thoughts exactly. If the sellers are not getting the parts from the manufacturing plants illegally like what happened in Malta, why is it a problem with Playmobil?
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I would be curious to know what sellers were sent the letter and what the letter said. To much room for speculation with out any further details. Like stated it could be that the parts were connected to a internal problem or a whole list of other ideas.
In the US I doubt that Geobra would be able to stop people selling parts on Ebay but I would have to check with my lawyer. I bet even he would not know with out a copy of the letter. The law is an interesting place and is open to interpretation 8}
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Maybe then Playmobil should think about selling the body pieces separately. ;)
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I don't know, it's all the info I have.
Does it mattter? If the sellers get their supplies in a fishy way, probably yes, and then action from Geobra is understandable.
But if possibly objection from Geobra is/could be/will be orientated against everyone who sells parts of klickies, it may become problematic for customizers...
Suppose:
One buys 10 klickies for customizing from a shop, DS, second-hand, whatever... This person uses the arms and torsos of the klickies, but has no use for the legs. He/she tries to exchange the parts for other wanted parts with other collectors, but that doesn't work out so he/she decides to sell them on ebay. If this gets prohibited, what does one do with all the parts one doesn't have use for?
Other-way-around-example:
One is looking for 10 pairs of legs to make customs. Not whole klickies. If you can get these specific parts on ebay or you have to order 10 whole klickies from DS; it will make a big difference in your wallet.
As you have already given the examples, if you want to sell off your access it should be your business just like selling a job lot of parts. But if parts were procured illegally then it becomes a theft issue. I don't know how Playmobil could demand control over personal inventories gotten by dismantling Klicky's.
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They probably wouldn't. I'd like to hear more details of what was in the letters before forming an opinion on the matter.
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Most likely they were letters of cease to sell items provided to German sellers due to safety issues or like wise.
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I'd like to hear more details of what was in the letters
Not sure we'll get to know that. Sofar the whole matter was only mentioned very briefly on the German forum, and I don't know if it will get further discussed, and I doubt the concerned sellers will talk about it.
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Not sure we'll get to know that. Sofar the whole matter was only mentioned very briefly on the German forum, and I don't know if it will get further discussed, and I doubt the concerned sellers will talk about it.
Than maybe we could ask Geobra. Richard is our liaison so maybe he could get an answer as to what went down :lens:
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Than maybe we could ask Geobra. Richard is our liaison so maybe he could get an answer as to what went down :lens:
one reason is that people buying cheap sets and selling parts for much profit. iam pretty sure thats the main issue with geobra. they trying to stop the ebay selling due very high prices etc. i think thats a company image propblem. i think aswell, when they start to sell body parts at the DS to fair prices ( legs 25 cents, arms 10 cents etc) ebay would die out and they won, but aslong this not happend, they will waste time and money on those crap which actually is damaging their image badly...
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one reason is that people buying cheap sets and selling parts for much profit. iam pretty sure thats the main issue with geobra. they trying to stop the ebay selling due very high prices etc. i think thats a company image propblem. i think aswell, when they start to sell body parts at the DS to fair prices ( legs 25 cents, arms 10 cents etc) ebay would die out and they won, but aslong this not happend, they will waste time and money on those crap which actually is damaging their image badly...
It's the customers who help set the high proces by paying them or bidding them up and as these are independent sellers, then it can hardly affect Geobra's image. I think, too, that if Geobra started selling parts of klickies through DS they would soon find that an expensive mistake as they are toy makers and not toy spare part sellers. In addition, buying parts of things is always expensive, as with cars.
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well, i understand geobra to go against buisness seller on ebay. i dont think they going again collector who sometimes selling some spare parts. or do they?
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Hi. I think it's because klickies are not supposed to be dismantled as they're designed for young children. That or the parts are stolen.
A.
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Hi. I think it's because klickies are not supposed to be dismantled as they're designed for young children. That or the parts are stolen.
A.
That may be the case but they are releasing the mystery packs soon which if I understand correctly come dismantled. Maybe Geobra is trying to get ahead of this now because you know some people will buying these by the box (if allowed) and these parts will be all over ebay. Just speculation on an interesting topic.
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Yeah. I Heard they'd come dismantled. I have to see that with my own eyes.
A.
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A most interesting thread... I have never sold a single playmobil, if anything. But I too wonder if I need sometime to sell something how will I be sure from crossing that line. Still, since its my playmobil and I legitimately payed for it the I believe I have the right to resell it.
Ordering parts from DS is a lot cheaper thats for sure... but in big quantities... :-\
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those sellers must be making millions and millions of euros by selling those pieces on ebay :lol:
and remember: body parts trafficking = illegal bussiness :P
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The only way this makes sense to me is if the parts were part of an internal theft. Geobra produces a lot of individual parts in a day and through that process there is going to be a lot of defects. From what I understand the parts are to be re-cycled but in the past they went missing. This happens here all the time. I was asked by a client to take back a $4000 hot-tub to costco as it was insufficient. When I took it back I asked the warehouse worker what was going to happen to it and he pointed to his truck and smiled, then said we will smash it and put it in the dumpster.
I really do not see how Geobra can govern what people legitimately sell. These toy/any companies do weird protective things though. I heard Lego is still fighting to retain their lost patent on the brick even though 30 years ago they agreed to the patent expiration date.
Has anybody at Klickywelt figured out who the sellers were?
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Just keeping it simple: I don't know what's going on, so I will not comment on it.
It might even be that a particular German law forces Geobra to take action in Germany.
This is just gossip and is completely devoid of any facts. Instead of breaking my head over this, I rather spend watching my favourite klickies and then some...
Bogro
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This is just gossip and is completely devoid of any facts.
So, you think I'm just spreading gossip and you're the person to know? Yeah, right! ::)
Perhaps you should f.e. read this post by "Mike1003" in the "19th century husar"-thread:
no, ignore playmochris.. that one of those guys who got that 8 pages letter from geobra. dont support him and buy something of him..
Apparantly there are other people besides me who heard about the story, and also know things about it.
That doesn't prove it to be true, but the more sources acknowledging the info, the lesser the chance it is just a rumor.
Btw:
Elvis is dead, the moonlandings weren't faked, and Osama Bin Laden is not drinking coffee with the US president in the oval office. And that's no gossip either.
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I think the point is that we don't know any of the facts about what was in the letters yet. I'm sure there were letters, but we are only speculating as to exactly what they say.
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I think the point is that we don't know any of the facts about what was in the letters yet. I'm sure there were letters, but we are only speculating as to exactly what they say.
True and I agree completely. I just don't like to be called a person who spreads gossip.
I once got a PM with lots of false accusations and insults (when the whole CCC-thing started in the summer of 2010) by a "very respected member" of this forum. I don't tolerate insults anymore, I've been through too much trouble in personal life the past years.
I've recently started posting pics of my collection and customs, not only because I like to share them and like to know what you guys (& girls) think about it, but also (!) to prove that I'm a true Playmobil-collector and not a "troll" or "trouble-seeker/starter" on this forum (as I've been called in the PM I mentioned above).
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I don't think any bad intent was meant by the previous statements, Hadoque. I wish there was someone that could verify what the letters contained to tell us what has transpired.
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Yes, I don't think anyone meant to imply you were spreading gossip, I know I didn't. I just am not too big on speculation, and would rather wait until we know more details before I give opinions on anything.
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Ok if we know that playmochris got a letter according to Mike, what type of items did chris sell before the letters went out ?
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Not sure, I've come across his listings only occasionally...
The reason I started this topic is not so much to find out who got tipped on the fingers by Geobra and in what way, but to discuss whether Klicky-parts (like legs, wigs, heads, torsos) may/may not/should/should not be allowed to be sold on ebay in larger quantities:
f.e. person X looks for 40 pairs of Klicky-legs to customize 40 Santa Clauses, and buys 10x 4 pairs of these on ebay from person Y.
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Not sure, I've come across his listings only occasionally...
The reason I started this topic is not so much to find out who got tipped on the fingers by Geobra and in what way, but to discuss whether Klicky-parts (like legs, wigs, heads, torsos) may/may not/should/should not be allowed to be sold on ebay in larger quantities:
f.e. person X looks for 40 pairs of Klicky-legs to customize 40 Santa Clauses, and buys 10x 4 pairs of these on ebay from person Y.
The only thing is if they were acquired in a questionable manner. If yes than I agree with Geobra if not and he is reselling what he legitimately bought than I do not agree with Geobra
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I would very much like to know the content of this letter :lens:
Playmochirs sells very expensive sets on ebay, even loose pieces. I hope a letter like that puts some sense to him...
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Than maybe we could ask Geobra. Richard is our liaison so maybe he could get an answer as to what went down :lens:
Yeah , sounds like a playmobil investagation is at hand!!!! :sherlock:
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Sounds like a company overreaching- I'm sure they are trying to stop those who are acquiring their parts in a shady manner, but thing about it Geobra- can Toyota tell me I'm not allowed to sell my car for parts?
Maybe some strange German law, but my guess would be Geobra hopes they can stop shady dealers with threats, not with the force of law-
Based on no information at all- ;D
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I would very much like to know the content of this letter :lens:
Playmochirs sells very expensive sets on ebay, even loose pieces. I hope a letter like that puts some sense to him...
Some of his prices are completely mad :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:. I emailed him about a couple of set i was after making some very good offers , nope its all or nothing . I have boguht some bits and peaces from him but he is very pricey indeed. FAst , great packing, item as described though . But very expensive !!!! Hussar hats for 11 euros each is mad !!! :( :( :( :( :(
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I agree that not knowing exactly what the letters contained causes conspiracy theory thoughts, but there is one reason this could have come about. It could be that the parts were obtained by an internal Geobra source making the entire transaction illegal, stolen to be more direct. If I remember correctly about the Malta incident, the assembly of figures was done outside of the factory. Some of the sublet work force did not return parts of figures or accessories that were left over or not up to standards, but instead made them available to eBay sellers. I also remember that there were shops in Malta that were selling bags of figure parts, that until Playmobil was made aware of the situation, didn't know about. They launched an investigation, & the police were called in. It makes you wonder how possessive Playmobil can be when it comes to selling products you have purchased, or mass parts left over from customization conversions like some of us do here on Playmofriends. This is a very interesting topic.
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I have a lot of left overs from my customs, as I like all my armies to be different from what they were originally produced, but I can't find the heart to part with them... No I don't think I can sell them but it would be good to know what may happen in that case.
Maybe one day I'll sit down and build a messed up massive army out of all the parts that I have left and fight Giorginetto's army :lol: :lol:
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I have a lot of left overs from my customs, as I like all my armies to be different from what they were originally produced, but I can't find the heart to part with them... No I don't think I can sell them but it would be good to know what may happen in that case.
Maybe one day I'll sit down and build a messed up massive army out of all the parts that I have left and fight Giorginetto's army :lol: :lol:
A Klicky Zombie army, or Frankenstein army! ;)
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A Klicky Zombie army, or Frankenstein army! ;)
:lol: :lol: I am sure Giorginetto's army cannot win an army like that :lol:
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I just recently started changing my klickies around but all the unused or unwanted parts go in a container for my kids. When I breakout my stuff to customize, I bring their container out and let my kids create their own klickies. They come up with some weird looking figures. Lol
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:lol: :lol: I am sure Giorginetto's army cannot win an army like that :lol:
Not when they're already dead! How can he win? :lol:
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Morally, I think it's very wrong when EBay sellers buy small spares (ie hair, or juice cartons, or whatever) from DS and advertise them on EBay with a starting price of ten times what they paid.
But, business is business - everyone is trying to make a living out of something, and I'm just very grateful that I knew about DS from the outset - there are plenty of people out there wanting to replace the bits of their children's Playmobil that got hoovered up who innocently think that EBay is the place to be buying such items.
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Where did those sellers get their supplies? ???
Playmo mafia i think....
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I do not Know exactly about the letter but week i have sent an email to an German Collector that he is also an well known ebay seller.
I have asked from him to buy some Exclisive sets from German DS store.He have written me that Geobra had cancelled his DS account because he is an ebay professional seller of Playmo parts.
So this is not a rumour but fact!!
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Well, it sounds like the parts were purchased from Playmobil for resale. :-\
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In another thread a German member here wrote his DS-account got cancelled as well...
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Yes I saw that. It was here: http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=7756.msg137558#msg137558
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In another thread a German member here wrote his DS-account got cancelled as well...
So you have DS accounts in Germany? Is this the same as being a registered shopper on the normal web site? If their account is canceled can they even buy normal sets?
I really would like to know what Geobra's problem with people buying a part adding value to it and reselling it is? If I go to Walmart, buy an item and list it on the web for 10X the price what law am I breaking?
If Geobra had a more user-friendly DS system that was well know, this "problem" would take care of itself
Is Geobra going to go after anybody re-selling even the sets with this mindset? There are a lot of people buying sets and the next day they list them for sale plus a profit. Its called business
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So you have DS accounts in Germany? Is this the same as being a registered shopper on the normal web site? If their account is canceled can they even buy normal sets?
Germans can order spare parts online on the official Playmobil-site.
So I guess they have 2 accounts; one for buying regular sets and DS add-on-sets (like in other countries), and presumably another one for ordering/buying spare parts... ???
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Germans can order spare parts online on the official Playmobil-site.
So I guess they have 2 accounts; one for buying regular sets and DS add-on-sets (like in other countries), and presumably another one for ordering/buying spare parts... ???
I wonder if Geobra is trying to establish a legal precedent for the possibility of expanding the DS on line ordering to other countries. If they work out the legal argument by re-interpreting laws they can eliminate auction competition ::)
How many of these seller are going to pony up the money to fight the letter? I can answer that ;D
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Just thought of something... a theme that doesn't exist yet: "Law & Prosecution" ;D Maybe they could release lawyers and judges in full court-dresses... their appropriate wigs will already be available in the updated pirates-theme. ;D
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Well,
we (Germans) normally have a customer number that is created on your first order. It's linked to your address...
I wanted to have an order shipped to me but to another address. Result: Geobra created a new account/customer number - although it was still me (and I mentioned this in my email to them).
Cheers,
HDL
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Just thought of something... a theme that doesn't exist yet: "Law & Prosecution" ;D Maybe they could release lawyers and judges in full court-dresses... their appropriate wigs will already be available in the updated pirates-theme. ;D
And the educational value of this theme, pricele$$
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Well,
we (Germans) normally have a customer number that is created on your first order. It's linked to your address...
I wanted to have an order shipped to me but to another address. Result: Geobra created a new account/customer number - although it was still me (and I mentioned this in my email to them).
Cheers,
HDL
It is the same here in Belgium with the account-link to the adress. And it happened to me too: I have (momentarily) 2 adresses and when I had a purchase sent to the 2nd one, I got another customer number and account.
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Well,
we (Germans) normally have a customer number that is created on your first order. It's linked to your address...
I wanted to have an order shipped to me but to another address. Result: Geobra created a new account/customer number - although it was still me (and I mentioned this in my email to them).
Cheers,
HDL
Yes I have one from when I place orders. Geobra even has my credit card info. When I call to place an order they ask for my name and then, postal code and then they ask if so and so is my address. I do not however have a different one for DS orders, the same one gets used. I ask because if an account gets black listed can you shop for anything at all? I like to buy lots of stuff from DS but I do not want the ol black spot . I have a list right now that is over 5 pages on a spread sheet
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Actually it is easy for Geobra to know who is selling what on ebay when "who" has an account at Playmobil.
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I like to buy lots of stuff from DS but I do not want the ol black spot . I have a list right now that is over 5 pages on a spread sheet
Perhaps you could include a note with your DS-order that you are ordering the parts for personal use as a collector/customizer and not for re-selling, and place your signature. Then they have a legal declaration from you that you don't buy parts for resale.
I've done that in the past with big DS-orders - and I live up to it because I'm not a (re)seller - and never had trouble or got questions, but it is already a few years back that I ordered in such large quantities.
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Actually it is easy for Geobra to know who is selling what on ebay when "who" has an account at Playmobil.
how easy is it. Aren't the Ebay accounts in bizarre names? Playmochris I doubt is a real name ;D Doesn't Geobra have to link a real name to an Ebay account name?
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how easy is it. Aren't the Ebay accounts in bizarre names? Playmochris I doubt is a real name ;D Doesn't Geobra have to link a real name to an Ebay account name?
Well, if person X (or perhaps company Y ;D) "wins" an auction from an ebay-seller, X (or perhaps Y) usually gets the seller's name (and mostly an adress). And if X (or perhaps Y) has a certain database with names & adresses... ;)
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Very interesting all that! Now that I check my DS order again I see that we do indeed have a customer number... Interesting!!! Well, good thing I am not selling anything ;D
Still, If I ever wanted to, I'd like to know my options before I did. Loose sets, boxed sets, individual items?
I have observed over the past year or so that sellers who used to sell klicky parts on ebay have either closed their shops or renamed them...
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As stated on their website Geobra sells via DS only for personal use. I guess that the people they are after are only those long term ebay sellers who are registered as 'professional' sellers and resell parts from DS (with profit) regularly and in large numbers.
If a German sells more than a certain fixed amount regularly on ebay he has to register as 'professional' seller due to tax and further legal reasons. Those have to give their adress on their auction pages.
I do not think that geobra ever will get interested in normal 'private' sellers who occasionally get rid of a few or more parts or sets.
To the origin of some of the parts: Sometimes people (not me, unfortunately) get cheap sets skidwise on clearence sales which they take apart because single items can be sold for more easily. It means not everything offered is shady maltaware.
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Thank you for all the clariications H_M!
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. . . I really would like to know what Geobra's problem with people buying a part adding value to it and reselling it is? If I go to Walmart, buy an item and list it on the web for 10X the price what law am I breaking?
If Geobra had a more user-friendly DS system that was well know, this "problem" would take care of itself
Is Geobra going to go after anybody re-selling even the sets with this mindset? There are a lot of people buying sets and the next day they list them for sale plus a profit. Its called business
You have perfectly summarized my thoughts on the matter, Rasputin! :hatoff:
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That is a true thought that a majority of us are thinking about too. But on the other side of the sword, what if Playmobil starts limiting quantities of parts that we are able to order from DS? Perhaps if they only allow up to 3 or 5 max of an item, that is one way they can crush this business opportunity. That's why I think that a valid PCC member number would prove beneficial to hard core customizers & collectors. It would be able to lift the restrictions, & allow us to buy what we want.
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shady maltaware
An excellent term for it. EBay in Germany is different than many other countries since the tax laws are very different when it comes to online sales.
Playmobil sells wholesale to retailers. If someone has their DS account cancelled because they are a professional seller, does that mean they now qualify to become a wholesale customer instead?
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This is a very interesting topic, a remember hearing about PM limiting DS sales due to over inflated prices of parts. I agree what does it matter if people sell stuff for over the odds?
I've just seen on ebay someone asking £10 for one set of cups and jug on a sprue. They may ask silly prices for things but they're not forcing anyone to spend that much it's up to the buyer.
That is a true thought that a majority of us are thinking about too. But on the other side of the sword, what if Playmobil starts limiting quantities of parts that we are able to order from DS? Perhaps if they only allow up to 3 or 5 max of an item, that is one way they can crush this business opportunity. That's why I think that a valid PCC member number would prove beneficial to hard core customizers & collectors. It would be able to lift the restrictions, & allow us to buy what we want.
Ds have started limiting amounts. I called them last week as I need about 30 stair rails for my new house to be told that the most you could order was 3 sets as that would be what you would get in a normal house with extention. I was told that PM was limiting big spares orders due to parts being bought on mass for reselling.
All I can think is that if Pm parts are sold at high prices then the average person would think it was because Pm were setting the prices that high. Therefore PM are ripping you off and that would damage Pm's reputation. ???
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But we all know that DS spare parts are quite cheap, klickies aside... One reason we needed a DS service for us collectors here in Greece was that reason exactly: we cannot go on paying ridiculously high ebay prices for items we need... And if we need them and we can't get them through DS, I admit I'll be the one to pay a crazy price for a single item... (but not 11 euros on a husar hat...) Bill is correct, I hope PCC membership can lift up these limits, although somehow I doubt it... call it a hunch...
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So let me get this straight. Geobra a toy business who sells directly to customers through it web sites and telephone orders in limiting set purchases to 9 and now they want to limit the amount of parts customers can buy from DS?
Is there any other business that takes such measures?
A F-ing business that says "No, you can not buy that much" :lol:
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It sound silly, doesn't it? I wonder what is their reasoning for all this? ???
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Excellent thoughts Ras & Sir Wolf! It doesn't make sense for a company to want to limit a profit potential, does it? I mean, the parts system & departments already exist, so why not want to capitalize on it? Seems like it would be a no brainer to me! It's strange, but they don't seem to realize if their DS departments were more accommodating to parts seeking collectors, it would limit the reason to go to eBay for obtaining spare parts lots. As I already stated, with the PCC looming in the future, it may give leverage for true collectors to be exempt from the recent part ordering restrictions, a perk so to speak, unlimited parts ordering abilities. :crossed:
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"Saskia" wrote in another thread that DS in the Netherlands is also limiting spare parts-orders, I guess this new policy is being adopted by most or all DS-departments.
I used to order for example 10x the same pirate because of interesting parts on the klicky for customizing, or 25x a soldier with 25x a specific hat and 50 cuffs for expanding a soldier-regiment, but that's already some years ago....
Since then I've bought not much or only in lower quantities.
I'd like to make a bigger order once again in the coming months, I wonder if DS-Belgium will accept it... ???
If I can't order 20 cuffs for 10 soldiers anymore, I'm in trouble! ::)
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Well, it sounds like the parts were purchased from Playmobil for resale. :-\
What do you mean resale?
I can not be in Germany and the guy bought me the goods in my behalf!!!
No commition,no fee!!!
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I think Emma J may have hit the nail on the head - Playmobl are concerned about their perceived reputation on pricing. Hopefully, the PCC may mean members are exempt from limits, although I guess they may have to sign a disclaimer that they won't resell them.
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You are all looking at this from the point of view of collectors, rightly so as that is what we are, and this matter concerns us because we are collectors. However, moving away from Playmobil for a moment .... you are about to buy a car and one of your considerations is the running costs; how much is it to service, are spare parts expensive, etc.
Now, think of yourself as a parent - "Do I buy some Playmobil for my child? No, because if he loses a policeman's revolver he will be heartbroken, the policeman will be consigned to the bottom of the toybox because it is going to cost me almost as much to replace that revolver as it did to buy the policeman. I'll buy something else instead"
We know we can buy cheaply from DS (where geographically available) but the average Playmobil customer has not read their catalogue properly (if they have one) and is not aware that a spares service is available. They see these overinflated prices on EBay and think that is the only option. Playmobil may even have market research to suggest that customers are scared off by the perceived cost of replacement parts.
Instead of pursuing EBay sellers, and penalising collectors by limiting the amount of items a person is allowed to buy from DS, why don't they print in big capital letters on all their prodcts YOU CAN BUY SPARES FOR THIS PRODUCT DIRECT FROM US
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Excellent post, Bad Mum. :wave:
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Spot on!!! :)9
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I think Emma J may have hit the nail on the head - Playmobl are concerned about their perceived reputation on pricing. Hopefully, the PCC may mean members are exempt from limits, although I guess they may have to sign a disclaimer that they won't resell them.
Ok so when you limit the amount of a certain part we can buy what happens to prices? Well its supply and demand. The demand stays the same but the supply is decreased so the price only goes up up up .
Now if this is true than they will also have to go after the sellers who repeatedly sell items they just purchased from a store and doubled the price. Look at the blisters for example. In a store they were $3.99 5825 (http://store.playmobilusa.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-US-Site/en_US/Product-Show?pid=5825&cgid=Ideen-Ecke) now look at the ones on Ebay 5825 (http://toys.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=5825&_sacat=2575&_odkw=&_osacat=2575&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313) all the way up to $50 :o better sue them for trying I guess
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You are all looking at this from the point of view of collectors, rightly so as that is what we are, and this matter concerns us because we are collectors. However, moving away from Playmobil for a moment .... you are about to buy a car and one of your considerations is the running costs; how much is it to service, are spare parts expensive, etc.
Now, think of yourself as a parent - "Do I buy some Playmobil for my child? No, because if he loses a policeman's revolver he will be heartbroken, the policeman will be consigned to the bottom of the toybox because it is going to cost me almost as much to replace that revolver as it did to buy the policeman. I'll buy something else instead"
We know we can buy cheaply from DS (where geographically available) but the average Playmobil customer has not read their catalogue properly (if they have one) and is not aware that a spares service is available. They see these overinflated prices on EBay and think that is the only option. Playmobil may even have market research to suggest that customers are scared off by the perceived cost of replacement parts.
Instead of pursuing EBay sellers, and penalising collectors by limiting the amount of items a person is allowed to buy from DS, why don't they print in big capital letters on all their prodcts YOU CAN BUY SPARES FOR THIS PRODUCT DIRECT FROM US
Do people really look at toy purchases this way. Lego is a company that the parts are forever getting lost so do they take this same stance on part sales?
I have never heard of any company banning people from re-selling. If I buy a toyota muffler and put it on an auction for double the price I will not get a letter from toyota demanding I stop ::). They actually would think I am a bit stupid for not opening a commercial account and buy them at wholesale to increase my profit margins and turn around time.
So now we are going to be penalized for some parent stupidity on buying a 10¢ gun for $1 on a auction.
I thought my freedoms were being eroded in real life but now this from a toy company :eh?:
Geobra just needs to flood the market with parts if they really are worried about naive parents and their high price image. These tactics are only going to tarnish their image in ways they do not seem to understand.
I think Geobra simply does not like someone else making money on their stuff, period. Must maintain total control even when it is in someone else's hands. We are not allowed to do what we want with our purchases and now we can not sell them for a profit.
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What do you mean resale?
I can not be in Germany and the guy bought me the goods in my behalf!!!
No commition,no fee!!!
If a seller puts a large order into their responsible DS parts department for a business reason, then turns around, & puts an escalated price on them to resale on ebay or other market.
Buy 10 pistols for $5.00 then puts a Buy it Now price of $12.00 plus shipping, that's considered resale.
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That is a true thought that a majority of us are thinking about too. But on the other side of the sword, what if Playmobil starts limiting quantities of parts that we are able to order from DS? Perhaps if they only allow up to 3 or 5 max of an item, that is one way they can crush this business opportunity. That's why I think that a valid PCC member number would prove beneficial to hard core customizers & collectors. It would be able to lift the restrictions, & allow us to buy what we want.
Instead of harming the person who is a collector, affectionado, child, etc, why doesn't Playmobil just make it easier for people to buy these parts from them?
Clarify things, put parts on ebay themselves. They're still selling stuff and making money.
Mind you - all our discussion here seems to be speculation - but hopefully they are reading and realising that limits would upset people and if you are going to do something then you have to be fair about it (harass those who are selling items on ebay for inflated prices, not just those selling spare parts).
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It would be too difficult to sell items on eBay for Playmobil unless they let an outside source do it for them. I don't think it would be possible to harass sellers selling items for a high price. If a person buys a store close out inventory for $100.00 but it's worth $500.00 & resells it for $600.00 that's called good business sense, it is the same philosophy. If you don't want to pay, don't buy. Playmobil just needs to get up to speed to make their already available parts system easier & accommodating to collectors, an easy fix.
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I agree, they need to expand their spare parts department, and advertise it on their boxes for parents to see. Get rid of the limits, sell more products, expand their profit margins. And if everyone knows you can buy spare parts from them, then the high price image problem goes away.
As Ras pointed out, buying items in huge quantities and reselling them without opening a merchants account is just stupid! If you plan to be a dealer, be a dealer and buy the stuff wholesale. Duh! So why should geobra limt how much we buy? People buying stuff at retail prices then trying to make a profit are only hurting themselves, and the people dumb enough to pay the high prices. Geobra actually makes more profit that way.
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I speak German and make sometimes (non Playmo-related) business-calls to Germany.
I'm willing to make a phonecall or send an email to Zirndorf (if I'm not mistaking, the head of Playmobil Customer-Support is Frau Kupiak) to ask about their company policy on DS- spare parts orders from collectors and possible limitations on such parts-orders.
And if there are official limitations (perhaps some DS-deparments in specific countries install limitations themselves?), if and how there could perhaps be made exceptions for collectors.
That is if I get some backup-support from you guys; so that I won't be representing just myself.
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I think we're all behind you! These limits are totally pointless in the first place, the least they can do is make an exception for collectors.
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i just read that fastly .
in time , i can understand playmobil want to limit the number of piece in the ds (20 in france) , lot's of people don't know we can find small parts direct with playmobil , playmo db is a "secret information" for a lot of people who abuse of this situation , this information is money particulary on ebay . I understand as well geobra want to control his product , it's legitime ! of course commercial attitude and the laws (different in all country) is a different thing .
Of course i also think playmobil could ask you to write it's not for selling the parts if you want 200 soldiers .
the price of things : in france price are free , it mean you are free to buy or not buy , there's no thieves , i will never buy an old car alone ... we had to take information before buying !! i remember (a true) story : in france a man has solt the "tour effel" !! (of course it was not his tower but the customer was a bit artless -naif- )
i don't know where the parts of theses seller (you talk about) comes from (my seller say he buy a lot and break the playmo) but i understand it's more expensive because when for exemple i need a red collar of a french soldier (i use pay that 0,50E) i don't have to buy the piece i don't want and so i don't have to sell the exedent to get only one piece witch is not in the ds ... (better for me than bying a lot of french soldiers ) , maybe it's difficult for them to sell all the figure and they stay with part people don't want (same problem sometimes for customs sellers ) in france only one seller sell parts witch are not in the ds and he sell a lot !!! (belt , collar for exemple)
all country are not the same for the ds ,in germany you can have more things so of course some people abuse of this situation to make a bit money (it cannot be million dollars !!) i sell customs and want to stop as soon as possible (for other reasons) : i think i would have never sell someting if i can get all the pieces i want !! of course like a lot of collectors i sometimes have to buy 50 playmobils to keep 3 for me because it's the only way to get them !!
there's one thing strange i don't understand : playmobil do a custom set for childreen (soon in germany ) , what about the fact selling custom is a problem for security reasons for childreens ? does it mean we can get only arms for exemple in the ds ? what about the "small parts " for little kids ? this is not very logical ...
so my message to playmobil : if collectors could find what they want in all the country , if we had all the same product in the same time and if everybody would be able to get all parts in the official site of playmobil : there would be no problems like this !!! as well for speculation : i'm sure they could easilly made some hussards , some english guards and i'm always glad to see we can in time get 1900 barriere , and theses famous western set because i'm patient ... (not in france now , maybe i should buy an old car in germany more expensive that i see in the german novelty and give a bit money to a seller in ebay.de : all work need to be pay and i've no friends in germany so ... ) ah if all customs can cost 4E !!!! just my opinion .....
i cannot find the post on klickywelt (german is near impossible to translate for me ) have you got a link ? thanks for this information !
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Ok so when you limit the amount of a certain part we can buy what happens to prices? Well its supply and demand. The demand stays the same but the supply is decreased so the price only goes up up up .
Now if this is true than they will also have to go after the sellers who repeatedly sell items they just purchased from a store and doubled the price. Look at the blisters for example. In a store they were $3.99 5825 (http://store.playmobilusa.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-US-Site/en_US/Product-Show?pid=5825&cgid=Ideen-Ecke) now look at the ones on Ebay 5825 (http://toys.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=5825&_sacat=2575&_odkw=&_osacat=2575&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313) all the way up to $50 :o better sue them for trying I guess
i never had a limit problem. i ordert sometimes 100s of the same parts but iam not selling them :) thats maybe whyy
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i never had a limit problem. i ordert sometimes 100s of the same parts but iam not selling them :) thats maybe whyy
I think unscrupulous sellers who buy DS for resale profit are probably known to people who work for Playmobil. Hopefully they know the difference between a true collector and someone who is just seeking profit. This is a very interesting development, though.
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That's a very interesting discussion and interesting especially as I have not heard about these prosecutions before. As far as I understood the geobra lawyers are after professional retailers that use the DS as a cheap source for spare parts. There were some people arguing that a company should be happy about every part sold, but I do not want someone to buy all exisiting pickelhauben (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-64-7792) at DS just to have a huge stock and to sale them with benefits... This is not the idea and I do not think that we all are interested in this to happen.
So, in a way, I feel like they are acting in our interest, if they try to prevent these backdoor sales on ebay. Of course, only if they find a way to make DS available for everyone around the world. :)
I speak German and make sometimes (non Playmo-related) business-calls to Germany.
I'm willing to make a phonecall or send an email to Zirndorf (if I'm not mistaking, the head of Playmobil Customer-Support is Frau Kupiak) to ask about their company policy on DS- spare parts orders from collectors and possible limitations on such parts-orders.
And if there are official limitations (perhaps some DS-deparments in specific countries install limitations themselves?), if and how there could perhaps be made exceptions for collectors.
In fact, there is a limit in parts that you are allowed to order. But, typically, they call you back and ask whether or not you are a collector. They even do ask for some pictures of your creations or collection, that's what I already read somewhere else... Then, they typically agree to place collector sized orders.
So, they are already making a difference between collectors and "normal" customers. But I guess, this differentiation is hard to make consistently. Maybe (hopefully) PCC will help on the way of doing so.
PCC should maybe have an honor code for personal use of potential DS purchases and special pricing...
best,
socrates
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I disagree strongly with the view that we have to explain to Geobra what we do with these parts !!!!!! Playmobil Greece better accept my orders of say 200 parts otehrwise i will simply turn my custom elsewhere for DS and normal sets !!! Ha !!! what next ?? do we have to thank Geobra for selling us parts that we pay for , this is pathetic, pathetic , pathetic.
I just find this whole debate ridiculus . Just liek with everythign else a company cannot control nor legally commit any customer as to what they do with the items they purchase !!! This is the most ridiculus thing i have heard, after all Geobra and all ebay sellers function in a free market economy and such restictions , letters of intent etc etc sould so ridiculus to me .
Well, unless playmobil greece gives me the quantities i want they will simply lose ( according to what they have told me ) one of their best customers.
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I just find this whole debate ridiculus . Just liek with everythign else a company cannot control nor legally commit any customer as to what they do with the items they purchase !!! This is the most ridiculus thing i have heard, after all Geobra and all ebay sellers function in a free market economy and such restictions , letters of intent etc etc sould so ridiculus to me .
Until we actually know what Geobra has done and what the law in Germany allows them to do, we cannot know what the real situation is.
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i agree with you playmofire : we can know what is the reel situation of this story but geting playmobil parts is problem and even we won't change anything , i find it's an interesting subject .
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Wel, since all these are paid items i really cant see why this coudl be a problem. Geobra sells them at a fixed price with profit, the more they selle the better for sure amd after all if ebay merchants buy them surely they will sell them at a higher price to make profit so by default geobra is the most price competitive.
I am not aware of any commercial laws prohibiting volumes of sales of spares/ consumables in Germany or any other european country. A company due to production scheduling and planning limitations may put a limit to order numbers per customer order to satisfy all of its customers and keep stock to a minimum and for a few more reasons i wont bore you with, but the suggestion of a law reference this is irrelevant as far as my know how of commercial law is concerned... maybe someone else here knows more than me on this ??? ??? ??? ???
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I speak German and make sometimes (non Playmo-related) business-calls to Germany.
I'm willing to make a phonecall or send an email to Zirndorf (if I'm not mistaking, the head of Playmobil Customer-Support is Frau Kupiak) to ask about their company policy on DS- spare parts orders from collectors and possible limitations on such parts-orders.
And if there are official limitations (perhaps some DS-deparments in specific countries install limitations themselves?), if and how there could perhaps be made exceptions for collectors.
That is if I get some backup-support from you guys; so that I won't be representing just myself.
Great initiative Hadoque, I already talked to the DS responsible in Belgium (BeNeLux office) and they were very accomodating in regards to collectors ordering larger quantities.
Also I would not make these kind of calls at this point. The PCC Pilot Group Board will have meetings in Zirndorf soon, surely these things will be discussed. I think going for a long term solution in this is better for everyone. So I hope you understand why I think waiting with calling them is the right strategy at this point.
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an idea to get pieces : if we could compare the piece we can find in all ds in the world (and the disponibility) maybe we could help each other to get what we want .... (there's no ds in some country ). As we say "help yourself" and with that way to do , we maybe can stop bying too much , solidarity is the answer !
in germany there's no shipping cost and that explain why pieces are cheap i think .
I think it's not possible for playmobil : "you can buy more only because you're a collector" (it's a bit like doing discrimination) , it will be easy for a seller to say he's a collector and don't forget some sellers are collector as well .
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but to be honest, the DS is not always cheap... sometimes its better to buy konvults or massive lots over ebay, i dont talk about malta
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Gis, since the board is meeting with playmobil in Zindorf, please forward these questions and demands and come back to us with the answers. Firstly regarding the contest of the letter, and secondly, what their policy on spare parts will be for the collectors, through the PCC.
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I already talked to the DS responsible in Belgium (BeNeLux office) and they were very accomodating in regards to collectors ordering larger quantities.
Ah, that's good!
Also I would not make these kind of calls at this point. The PCC Pilot Group Board will have meetings in Zirndorf soon, surely these things will be discussed. I think going for a long term solution in this is better for everyone.
Yes, then indeed it is better to wait. I wasn't aware there would be soon PCC-meetings with the management and that DS-spare parts orders for collectors might/will be on the agenda.
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Well, unless playmobil greece gives me the quantities i want they will simply lose ( according to what they have told me ) one of their best customers.
We've worked quite hard to persuade them to accept spare parts orders from us. They may think otherwise if one of us tells them ''I need more or else''... As I recall, the current situation with our DS spare parts, is a temporary one and they might feel its not in their best interest to continue with it if one of us stops ordering these spare parts from them. It may affects us all greek collectors.
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As far as I understood the geobra lawyers are after professional retailers that use the DS as a cheap source for spare parts. There were some people arguing that a company should be happy about every part sold, but I do not want someone to buy all exisiting pickelhauben (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-64-7792) at DS just to have a huge stock and to sale them with benefits... This is not the idea and I do not think that we all are interested in this to happen.
So, in a way, I feel like they are acting in our interest, if they try to prevent these backdoor sales on ebay. Of course, only if they find a way to make DS available for everyone around the world. :)
In fact, there is a limit in parts that you are allowed to order. But, typically, they call you back and ask whether or not you are a collector. They even do ask for some pictures of your creations or collection, that's what I already read somewhere else... Then, they typically agree to place collector sized orders.
So, they are already making a difference between collectors and "normal" customers. But I guess, this differentiation is hard to make consistently. Maybe (hopefully) PCC will help on the way of doing so.
PCC should maybe have an honor code for personal use of potential DS purchases and special pricing...
best,
socrates
If keeping an item in stock for consumers is the problem what would be the difference if a commercial seller cleared out the warehouse stock of say 1000 pickelhauben (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-64-7792) or a PCC collector bought the same 1000 pickelhauben (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-64-7792) ? In both cases the warehouse is still going to be out of stock for future orders
Is my memory serving me correctly in the idea that the warehouse is now a state of the art system. Set inventories are kept to a minimum and made on demand now? If so why not do the same for parts? IF an order comes in and clears out 10,000 of 30-xx-xxxx the system request a new batch to be made. The market gets flooded with the items, commercial sellers can buy what they speculate for future sales. Geobra sells way more individual parts due to high demands from many sources. Collectors keep getting large quantities to hoard in private. Then when the parts are no longer produced AKA discontinued which drives the price through the roof the sellers can flood the market a 2nd time with their over priced stashes . An idealistic playmo world :P
Edit: typed not but meant now
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Well, unless playmobil greece gives me the quantities i want they will simply lose ( according to what they have told me ) one of their best customers.
I would not suggest this yet. First we need to know what the problems are all about before the ultimatum card is played, patience and diplomacy first, if it fails then bring out the big guns :lol: This is so silly, over a toy with such a simple smile :redhair:
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If keeping an item in stock for consumers is the problem what would be the difference if a commercial seller cleared out the warehouse stock of say 1000 pickelhauben (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-64-7792) or a PCC collector bought the same 1000 pickelhauben (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-64-7792) ? In both cases the warehouse is still going to be out of stock for future orders
Is my memory serving me correctly in the idea that the warehouse is now a state of the art system. Set inventories are kept to a minimum and made on demand now? If so why not do the same for parts? IF an order comes in and clears out 10,000 of 30-xx-xxxx the system request a new batch to be made. The market gets flooded with the items, commercial sellers can buy what they speculate for future sales. Geobra sells way more individual parts due to high demands from many sources. Collectors keep getting large quantities to hoard in private. Then when the parts are no longer produced AKA discontinued which drives the price through the roof the sellers can flood the market a 2nd time with their over priced stashes . An idealistic playmo world :P
Again, Rasputin, you have distilled my own thoughts into a simple statement.
Until we actually know what Geobra has done and what the law in Germany allows them to do, we cannot know what the real situation is.
So true!
I speak German and make sometimes (non Playmo-related) business-calls to Germany.
I'm willing to make a phonecall or send an email to Zirndorf (if I'm not mistaking, the head of Playmobil Customer-Support is Frau Kupiak) to ask about their company policy on DS- spare parts orders from collectors and possible limitations on such parts-orders.
And if there are official limitations (perhaps some DS-deparments in specific countries install limitations themselves?), if and how there could perhaps be made exceptions for collectors.
That is if I get some backup-support from you guys; so that I won't be representing just myself.
This is a great idea, Hadoque! The best way to solve the problem of limited quantities in DS orders (or any type of online/phone/email order) is to communicate with Playmobil to let them know that people want/need to be able to make purchases in large quantities. My guess is that they are currently limiting quantities because they simply don't have the staff and the inventory to support the type of DS that we would all like to have - that's why we need to let them know what we want so that they can see the business opportunity there.
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As an aside, there are loads of lots of dismantled Klickies on UK EBay at the moment (ie 6 legs from this, 6 torsos from that, arms, heads, hair, etc). All with a 99p starting price so I suppose not all sellers are after making vast profits.
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As an aside, there are loads of lots of dismantled Klickies on UK EBay at the moment (ie 6 legs from this, 6 torsos from that, arms, heads, hair, etc). All with a 99p starting price so I suppose not all sellers are after making vast profits.
they usually from malta..
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Yes, Mike, you're right, and they are!!
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Hadoque - could you please give us a link to the original conversation about this that you saw on Klickywelt? Thanks in advance! :)
I don't speak German, but lately I have been using the translation feature on Internet Explorer (Bing) and it works well enough to get the general idea.
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Yes, Mike, you're right, and they are!!
and its not even proper playmobil parts.. mostly rests or from test runs :) dont ask me why i know so much about malta 8}
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the marketing service say to me 2 days ago : 19 page of test to be conform for the childreens .
Are you sure uk seller buy in malta ?
still no link ?
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and its not even proper playmobil parts.. mostly rests or from test runs :) dont ask me why i know so much about malta 8}
so....why do you know so much about Malta? :P
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so....why do you know so much about Malta? :P
well, i dont know.. :) :-[
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i have a fast look on ebay.uk : if you speak about the pseudo mirror : it was the only one to stay 2 years ago after the other disapear , i often buy piece with him after theses sad events i ask him if it was an honnest man and he send me avoice from playmobil factory of the part he sell me (2 years ago) . It was helmet for night .
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no, there others like tilly_m.., christopher.. etc.. mikeandrews blah blah blah... iam sure there a few uk seller who get that stuff like kanther... usw
but thats not my buisness as i dont deal with them.. mirror guy is ok, he usually sells used playmobil and old figures etc..
play123 is a bit dodgy too
eheh
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Hadoque - could you please give us a link to the original conversation about this that you saw on Klickywelt? Thanks in advance! :)
Sorry Indy, no link this time, because I'm not sure the person who brought up the subject on Klickywelt would like that.
And I don't want to ruin my connections with the Germans, I might already be in trouble for quoting Basil Fawlty too much... ;D
But here are his/her ( ;)) exact words posted on Klickywelt, in German:
"Geobra geht ja derzeit schon massiv gegen gewerbliche Anbieter auf Ebay vor die Figuren-Einzelteile anbieten."
My translation: "Geobra nowadays already acts massively against professional sellers on eBay who offer figure-parts."
This was a response to a question from someone:
"Nö, nur ein 8 Seiten starkes Schreiben (mit Unterlassungserklärung und allem drumherum) von deren Anwälten und das haben min. 2 Ebay Verkäufer bekommen."
Translanted:
"Noo, only a 8-pages strong letter (with ...*-declaration and all that comes with that) from their lawyers and at least 2 ebay-sellers have received that"
*: I don't know the correct English word for "Unterlassungserklärung", ??? I would translate it as "ingebrekestelling" in Dutch (my mother tongue).
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Thanks, Hadoque - that's better than a link anyway because your translation, I am sure, is better than the computerized one. You are very good to be so considerate of the possible feelings and wishes of the original KW source. :) And you are probably wise to keep your inner Basil on a short leash! :lol: Just don't mention the war! Oops! :-[ ;)
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:lol: Yes, don't mention the war! Playmobil should adopt that as their motto.... :P Gotta love Fawlty Towers!
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.... I am afraid the duck is off .....
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I must have watched no less than 10 times each episode of FT series I ands II. Apparently there are rumors of an unaired episode with thieves ... god i would love to see this .
F...f....f...f...fire.... FIRE !!!!!.. FIRE!!!...FIRE!!!!...FIRE!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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:lol: That was a great episode, especially when he locked Manuel in the kitchen!
Let's get back to the topic, please, though.
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*: I don't know the correct English word for "Unterlassungserklärung", ??? I would translate it as "ingebrekestelling" in Dutch (my mother tongue).
I think it's what's known in legal terms as a "Cease and Desist Declaration" although what that actually means in real terms, I don't know.
Eees a hamster.
Sorry, off topic!!
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that means, they should STOP doing what they doing.
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yes, that's it and thus Bad Mum is correct with her English translation. I didn't know how to say it in English. :)
I think it's what's known in legal terms as a "Cease and Desist Declaration"
Good for them it wasn't a "Decease and Disexist Declaration" ! ;D