PlaymoFriends
Creative => How-To => Topic started by: Richard on May 05, 2010, 01:51:36
-
STECK DESIGNER WANTED
We would like to find someone who can revamp Playmobil's SystemX and Steck Systems so that they work together and work better!
This new "combination" system needs to be mathematically logical like Lego only all Playmobil.
Do we have any members here at Playmofriends that can do this? The preliminary design will be presented in Zirndorf in about six weeks!
-
IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE?
If we can make this happen, we may be able to save Steck, SystemX and have a better Playmobil construction system!
-
I am not sure what you are asking Richard... maybe it is because I am tired... :cloud9:
Can you explain in a little more detail?
I am willing to help with this, it sounds kinda fun!
But I need a more detailed explanation. :wave:
-
Hello, WoT!
Lego bricks were mathematically engineered to fit together in an almost infinite variety of combinations. Steck and SystemX need to both be re-engineered to work together and to also fit together in an almost infinite variety of combinations. I think that to create such a Playmobil system will require someone with excellent mathematical skills.
We are looking for anyone here at Playmofriends who has the mathematical skills and imagination needed to create a Playmobil system that will let both Steck and SystemX work together and to also fit together in an almost infinite variety of combinations. We are hoping for a preliminary design to present at the Zirndorf meeting in about six weeks.
Thank you for your question.
All the best,
Richard
-
that would be truly impressive, if someone from our community comes up with a new mathematically supported construction method for playmo, like lego.
All I can think of are additional pieces that work like 'bridges' between one system and the other. A bit like the usb is the current way to plug into pc's, and you can plug in old mice with nine pins or even the old 25 pins to a usb-bridge (damn, i forgot the real word for such a translating device). With tv's you have scart-plugs, so you can get your three wires from your digital camera into an old tv with only scart, etc..
With playmo, these extra pieces would have system x connections on one side, and steck on the other...
-
Unless a part is designed on which both system x and steck components can be added (and can be removed at the users discretion)so that the parts (corners, walls etc...) can fit both articles....
I have no mathematical skills or knowledge unfortunatley...nor do i have any knowledge of any kind of design school but I have used system x and steck a lot to produce custom buildings for my playmo...its just comes easily, and after experimentation, when i have the pieces all together in front of me...
I believe i can identify what is functional and what is not and what a child can use easily and what a grown up collector will need....
-
Good idea!
But what´s in it for the mathematical designer :toot:
-
Hi Richard!
Fantastic! So we will be able to give input into Zirndorf design unit!?
This is just great! Wonderful! :D
Of course I will be in!
I think, the most important thing is to brainstorm carefully what we would like to have.
So, what is missing, what part do you (everyone) need the most?! ???
My two cents would be:
six weeks for a thoughtful sketch is pretty much on short notice. Thus, we should restrict ourselves on adapter elements to combine both systems, and maybe some inspired new parts.
I remember once the adapter in incorporating the steck parts with the fort wall. A small genious piece! :love:
http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-20-8890
We need to sketch something like this to bridge between steck and SysX. That would be soo cool!
Hmm, problems here are the different dimensions, I guess. SysX comes in essentially two different heights, steck has one height and this doesn't match well to both. And as both parts have different dimensions (SysX is significantly thicker), we have another problem there...
So, do we really want to bring together both systems? Maybe it would make sense to think about a new system, extending SysX to something we really love because it combines advantages from both systems?
Another question is, whether or not we are getting input from Zirndorf. I would love to know, e.g., why the heck they are using this cheap pseudo-steck-system these days. They undermine their own system by that.
I expect SysX parts just to be too expensive in production. That would be important to know, because then we should maybe go more into the steck direction in our design.
And, finally, adressing the mathematical model: I think the secret of lego is that they have one basic brick, the classic 2x2 stone, and all other building parts are fractions or multiple of it. you dont need a mathematician to design something like that. SysX is pretty cool in its potential, but there are some universal parts missing. They design e.g. cool roof elements but then cornerstones are missing completely or just available for this one special set. The same for steck. It has been longer on market but e.g. the fourside-wall connector never has been released...
Hmm, okay, this might already count as 10cent. :-[
Well, looking forward to read your ideas!
best,
socrates
-
Hi Richard!
The same for steck. It has been longer on market but e.g. the fourside-wall connector never has been released...
I think that a key element to achieve this will be connectors , connectors , connectors . They can provide a type of bridging between these design construction concepts and also a 4 point connect for steck would be an awesome part to have to create better designs with steck, one think i never understood why it was never created . With reference to connectors i will give it some serious thought and if i can create anything meaningfull in autocad i will inform you Richard, i will give it a serious go this weekend . I think its great that PM is brainstorming this and its a great opportunity . Consider the toothed connection principle of steck and the standard Lego brick which can be easily upscaled by multiples of the base design .. how can we marry these together ?? I will most certainly medidate on this and play a lot with autocad to try make something useful .... My guess is building blocks for playmobil desings will have to be smaller than e.g the classic steck wall .... :)
-
My two cents would be:
six weeks for a thoughtful sketch is pretty much on short notice. Thus, we should restrict ourselves on adapter elements to combine both systems, and maybe some inspired new parts.
I remember once the adapter in incorporating the steck parts with the fort wall. A small genious piece! :love:
http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-20-8890
We need to sketch something like this to bridge between steck and SysX. That would be soo cool!
Exactly what i had in mind socrates...This is a great connector piece imagine if it had system x on one side and steck on the other...
There is also need for a four way connector...i know it exists but only for certain sets....
Floors are an issue...system x floors can be produced to fit steck pieces in order to avoid the use of the little tooth-like clippers (from the already existing floors) that can be so easily broken and do not always fit the plans one wants them to fit...
Come on people...more ideas....
-
i don't want to crash the party going on here, but why would Geobra want such a connector??
It doesn't make sense, they stopped making steck so there's no need, at least i don't see it ???
Are there plans to produce steck once more, or is it just for us collectors :hmm:
it would be great if they did start making steck, but i can hardly believe that they would.
please Richard, can you give us more info as to why Geobra has the need for the two systems to go together.
-
i don't want to crash the party going on here, but why would Geobra want such a connector??
It doesn't make sense, they stopped making steck so there's no need, at least i don't see it ???
Are there plans to produce steck once more, or is it just for us collectors :hmm:
it would be great if they did start making steck, but i can hardly believe that they would.
please Richard, can you give us more info as to why Geobra has the need for the two systems to go together.
Well, I agree that they will not be too keen to invest a lot of effort to combine their ultimate system with a system they do not produce anymore. But in the end, maybe we get some cool connectors anyway. ;)
I understand that they are willing to look at a concept for a universal and extensible building concept.
And this is really exciting and a great chance for us to actively involve into the future of models...
Thinking longer about this, we really should think about how the perfect system would look like in the first place.
More like fusing the best aspects from both worlds.
best,
socrates
-
We had a similar discussion at Customize IT
Playmobil asked if there was intrest in a connector from system x to steck
The Idea behind is good (they finally want to do something for the collectors )
Sadly not realistic
first question that comes to my mind
WHAT are we going to connect
Second question , are we going to connect one piece ? or several ?
I doubt Playmobil will make a series of connectors
I'm a practicus and builded a lot with both systems and allready tried to mix both systems
as Socrates mentioned , problems here are the different dimensions
second problem is the esthetique
Steck is quite realistic with his grey and brown houses
System X is mostly White
Main question remains
What are we going to connect ?
-
Isn't there the danger that too many questions are asked at the start and as a result no ideas are put forward and so Playmobil say, "Well, they said they wanted input, we gave them the chance but nothing was put forward." There are great gaps in knowing what they want, and this can be made clear when any proposals are put forward, but at the same time here is an opportunity to put forward what members of the community want. Maybe connectors of the two building systems are not the answer, and this can be explained to Playmobil (good reasons have already been given why this may be the case), and if this is so, then the answer must be something new, maybe drawing on both systems so as to gain the advantages of both and at the same time avoid the disadvantages of both systems, so far as possible.
Here are some thoughts, certainly not complete:
Advantages of Steck:
1. Wall pieces are such a size as to be able to put together a building relatively quickly.
2. Each wall section is well-detailed and incorporates spaces for windows and doors.
3. Finished structures are reasonably rigid.
Disadvantages of Steck:
1. There are a limited number of wall patterns. For example, it would be useful to have a double window wall which could be added to laterally and not just at right angles. Similarly, blank walls would be useful and half length walls.
2. It can be difficult to separate sections when dismantling a building because the tongues fit so tightly.
3. More roof shapes are needed such as a return of the half roof and the introduction of a roof or piece which would allow a right-angled turn, both internal and external, e.g. for a courtyard or L-shape.
Advantages of System-X
1. It is more flexible.
Disadvantages of System-X
1. It is fiddly and time-consuming to put together.
2. Despite (or probably because of) all the connectors, the finished building is often fragile.
3. It is clumsy and too chunky (largely because of the joining method).
There's my two pence worth, although I may add more later. But I think the thing to do now is come up with ideas.
-
Just brainstorming and maybe it's a stupid idea but why not making Sys-x parts with the exact looks of Steck parts? The most ressemblant sys-x parts to steck are those from 2004's retired 3268 and 3269 castles, but the designers screwed the designs by integrating the battlements into the basic wall, by making very large parts in general. This option would enlarge building possibilities in the sys-x world. It could be done quite nice, once a building would be constructed it would be hard to see if it were made out of sys-x or steck parts.
Or, why not making steck parts with the exact looks of Sys-x parts? I'm thinking about the fairy tale castle parts, sys-x church parts that could be made with steck parts. This option would enlarge building possibilities in the steck world.
-
This is an exciting development, Richard! I think the folks who have already commented make many good points and, in the variety of their responses, show that this is a very complex issue.
If I may, I would like to approach this from a different angle: I would ask for a robust, flexible, and user-friendly CAD (computer aided design) program combined with the potential to request discontinued or newly designed parts from Playmobil. Many folks here at Playmofriends and elsewhere have talked about this type of software many times in the past. If we could get this out into the world of Playmobil fans and collectors we would have thousands upon thousands of brains working on designing the parts that they desire. Plus it would be awesomely cool and fun! :yup:
-
Gordon is right...we need solutions...while at the same time having the question at the back of our heads...we do not need to express the questions all the time...Just plan...(although planning without questions is not working very well and too much questions is ''setting a brake'' for creative thought)
Here are some of my ideas...
First of all the 3268 draw bridge is a great design...30 24 7960 - Castle wall with large arched doorway and towers on each sie (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-7960) It goes further than the 3666 predecessor 30 07 6270 - Castle wall, 3 units wide, with wide archtop doorway (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-07-6270)
The first design can be used with steck...if we also produce caslte parts like this steck piece 30 07 6020 - Wall, Curved Quarter-Circle with Arrow Slit (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-07-6020) to create a slightly angled tower that fits the first brawbridge from the back thus closing this angled tower....
I have to say that this 30 24 7790 - Castle wall, single-height, 2 units wide, plain (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-7790) is the best castle wall playmobil designed..the same can be argued about these walls 30 24 8120 - Castle wall, single-height with trapezoidal section in cntre (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-24-8120)
....but these 30 07 6810 - Battlement, scalloped front, 1 unit wide (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-07-6810) battlements are far better and easier to use...so we combine the system x wall with the steck battlement....
The floors are a major issue...a child might not need a lot of room but an adult collector might... So, i propose a steck wall that can have system x holes on the top side to replace the tooth slides that come down the piece 30 07 6120 - Wall, Flat, Plain, Double-Male Connectors (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-07-6120) where the floor teeth are inserted, but keeping the two upward teeth in order to fit another steck piece above it... The result will be not this limited type 30 03 9800 - Floor, 2x2 units (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-03-9800) of steck floor but rather something based on this piece 30 20 6370 - Baseplate, rectangular (4x6 units) (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-20-6370)
I am sure that with correct measuring something like that can be designed as more ideas are comming into my head...(more questions coming to my head as well but I try to avoid them for the time being)...
-
While Diane and me were out for a walk I was thinking of possible solutions, mainly in terms of houses etc, civilian buildings if you like, the same principles could apply to castles. I think 8 to 10 basic "walls" could do the trick. I'll do some rough sketches and then everyone can think of the problems I've missed!
-
If we could get this out into the world of Playmobil fans and collectors we would have thousands upon thousands of brains working on designing the parts that they desire. Plus it would be awesomely cool and fun! :yup:
Sadly we are not thousends and thousends
I'll put in an example :
For a few months playmobil asked for help from collectors for Utrecht
At Klickywelt , no one responded
At customize it ,four people
We among five others responded to playmobil directly
that brings us to nine
sad ain't it ?
-
I'm very hopeful that if we do the designs ourselves using the vast experience, knowledge, & opinions here, we can do the research with strong input, then we can present proven ideas to Playmobil to consider in the new......(drum roll please!) ;) "Add on's" "building parts for collectors & customizers series" :camera::yippee:!
-
the playmobil disighners don't wan't steck for the new playmobil buildings richard ?? if they want they can make their own new new products !!!!
-
While Diane and me were out for a walk I was thinking of possible solutions, mainly in terms of houses etc, civilian buildings if you like, the same principles could apply to castles. I think 8 to 10 basic "walls" could do the trick. I'll do some rough sketches and then everyone can think of the problems I've missed!
Waiting on these sketches Gordon!!! :lens: :lens: :lens:
-
Sadly we are not thousends and thousends
I'll put in an example :
For a few months playmobil asked for help from collectors for Utrecht
At Klickywelt , no one responded
At customize it ,four people
We among five others responded to playmobil directly
that brings us to nine
sad ain't it ?
Still its a beggining....Look at the positive side!!! ;)
-
I'm very hopeful that if we do the designs ourselves using the vast experience, knowledge, & opinions here, we can do the research with strong input, then we can present proven ideas to Playmobil to consider in the new......(drum roll please!) ;) "Add on's" "building parts for collectors & customizers series" :camera::yippee:!
That is a series i very much want to see becoming a reality Bill!!! :D :D :D
-
I will give it a seriou sgo this weekend using some engineerign design software and bearing in mind all the comments and ideas posted in this brainstorm ( so far ) , i guess ( please correct me if i am wrong ) and to sum up , we are looking for a connector type at two side, 3 sides , 4 sides , between steck and system x and perhaps a new deisgn all together ???
-
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and ideas!
that would be truly impressive, if someone from our community comes up with a new mathematically supported construction method for playmo, like lego.
It would indeed, Maltese Knight !!!
All I can think of are additional pieces that work like 'bridges' between one system and the other.
The "additional pieces that work like bridges" might be the beginning of a new system, Maltese Knight.
Thus, we should restrict ourselves on adapter elements to combine both systems, and maybe some inspired new parts.
We need to sketch something like this to bridge between steck and SysX. That would be soo cool!
Maybe it would make sense to think about a new system, extending SysX to something we really love because it combines advantages from both systems?
And, finally, adressing the mathematical model: I think the secret of lego is that they have one basic brick, the classic 2x2 stone, and all other building parts are fractions or multiple of it. you dont need a mathematician to design something like that. SysX is pretty cool in its potential, but there are some universal parts missing. They design e.g. cool roof elements but then cornerstones are missing completely or just available for this one special set. The same for steck. It has been longer on market but e.g. the fourside-wall connector never has been released...
And, "some inspired new parts" might also be the beginning of a new system, Socrates. You appear to be definitely thinking outside of the box!
I think that a key element to achieve this will be connectors , connectors , connectors . They can provide a type of bridging between these design construction concepts and also a 4 point connect for steck would be an awesome part to have to create better designs with steck ...
With reference to connectors i will give it some serious thought and if i can create anything meaningful in autocad i will inform you Richard ...
I think its great that PM is brainstorming this and its a great opportunity . Consider the toothed connection principle of steck and the standard Lego brick which can be easily upscaled by multiples of the base design .. how can we marry these together ?? I will most certainly meditate on this and play a lot with autocad to try make something useful .... My guess is building blocks for playmobil designs will have to be smaller than e.g the classic steck wall .... :)
This is most certainly a great opportunity for us, Giorginetto! And, maybe we can design a "better building block" !!!
first question that comes to my mind
WHAT are we going to connect
Main question remains
What are we going to connect ?
Great questions, Macgayver !!! And, I think that some of the members here might just have some of the answers! ... :klickygrin:
Isn't there the danger that too many questions are asked at the start and as a result no ideas are put forward and so Playmobil say, "Well, they said they wanted input, we gave them the chance but nothing was put forward." There are great gaps in knowing what they want, and this can be made clear when any proposals are put forward, but at the same time here is an opportunity to put forward what members of the community want. Maybe connectors of the two building systems are not the answer, and this can be explained to Playmobil (good reasons have already been given why this may be the case), and if this is so, then the answer must be something new, maybe drawing on both systems so as to gain the advantages of both and at the same time avoid the disadvantages of both systems, so far as possible.
There's my two pence worth, although I may add more later. But I think the thing to do now is come up with ideas.
Playmofire, you may very well be the voice of wisdom that we will need to make this happen.
Just brainstorming and maybe it's a stupid idea but why not making Sys-x parts with the exact looks of Steck parts? The most resemblant sys-x parts to steck are those from 2004's retired 3268 and 3269 castles, but the designers screwed the designs by integrating the battlements into the basic wall, by making very large parts in general. This option would enlarge building possibilities in the sys-x world. It could be done quite nice, once a building would be constructed it would be hard to see if it were made out of sys-x or steck parts.
Or, why not making steck parts with the exact looks of Sys-x parts? I'm thinking about the fairy tale castle parts, sys-x church parts that could be made with steck parts. This option would enlarge building possibilities in the steck world.
There are no "stupid" ideas, KenC ... In fact, you may be adding some of the details that could make this a much better system than Lego.
This is an exciting development, Richard! I think the folks who have already commented make many good points and, in the variety of their responses, show that this is a very complex issue.
If I may, I would like to approach this from a different angle: I would ask for a robust, flexible, and user-friendly CAD (computer aided design) program combined with the potential to request discontinued or newly designed parts from Playmobil. Many folks here at Playmofriends and elsewhere have talked about this type of software many times in the past. If we could get this out into the world of Playmobil fans and collectors we would have thousands upon thousands of brains working on designing the parts that they desire. Plus it would be awesomely cool and fun! :yup:
Thank you for remembering this, Indianna! A CAD design system may very well be something that Playmobil could see that would have great value for the children as well as the collectors.
Gordon is right...we need solutions...while at the same time having the question at the back of our heads...we do not need to express the questions all the time...Just plan...(although planning without questions is not working very well and too much questions is ''setting a brake'' for creative thought)
The floors are a major issue...a child might not need a lot of room but an adult collector might... ]
I am sure that with correct measuring something like that can be designed as more ideas are comming into my head...(more questions coming to my head as well but I try to avoid them for the time being)...
Great thought, Wolf Knight! As we are thinking about design, it is very important to think about the children. We must never forget that Playmobil is a toy for children. That really always seems to be of great importance to Mr. Brandstätter.
Good idea!
But what's in it for the mathematical designer :toot:
Who knows, Arab Warrior? ... :klickygrin:
It seems that almost everyone is saying just about the same thing.
"We need to think outside of the box."
Steck and SystemX are both good systems. But, as almost everyone has said, they are limited.
What appears to be needed is a new construction system that will:
1. Be better than Lego
2. Allow children to make simple or complex structures
3. Be a bridge between the existing Steck and SystemX
In summary ... Design a stand alone system that's better than Lego, will allow children to create simple or complex structures and also work with both Steck and SystemX.
If we remember what Socrates said, "I think the secret of Lego is that they have one basic brick, the classic 2x2 stone, and all other building parts are fractions or multiple of it. You don't need a mathematician to design something like that." Then, it should not be difficult to create a new system for Playmobil!
Please keep thinking. We just may be able to do this !!!
Thanks again and all the best,
Richard
-
Sadly we are not thousends and thousends
I'll put in an example :
For a few months playmobil asked for help from collectors for Utrecht
At Klickywelt , no one responded
At customize it ,four people
We among five others responded to playmobil directly
that brings us to nine
sad ain't it ?
Well Micheal,
Why didn't they ask here? I could have easily helped out.
-
. . . I would ask for a robust, flexible, and user-friendly CAD (computer aided design) program combined with the potential to request discontinued or newly designed parts from Playmobil. . .
I am thinking of computer software similar to LEGO Digital Designer (http://ldd.lego.com/) which is available as a free download. A Playmobil digital design system could have even more features and be sold as a product - this is how it gets into the hands of the "thousands and thousands" I mentioned before. It would not be a "gift" to us collectors but rather a free-standing product that would encourage additional Playmobil sales as people make their own designs and the software produces parts lists and plans. It would allow for the virtual design of new parts or new colors for existing parts so that people could see how their own design might look, whether or not it is possible to build it with existing parts. It would be a bridge for youngsters to stay interested in Playmobil during that awkward teenage period when they think they have "outgrown" Playmobil ;). It could be a means of showing Playmobil what new or re-issued parts are in demand (they may not make new Steck sets for the stores but it might actually be profitable for them to sell Steck/System X parts through an improved Direct Service.) It would appeal to anyone with a lot of Playmobil who would like some assistance in organizing all of it.
Many of us already have mental lists of the "missing parts" that we'd like to have, such as 4 way Steck connectors or Steck/System X connectors and we should definitely communicate those desires to Playmobil, but I believe that a good digital design software program would be a very useful "connector" between Playmobil and its customers.
-
hello everyone.
on another thread - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=4232.msg53680;topicseen#msg53680 - richard disclosed some of the questions that were sent to him about a collectors club.
maybe tthese questions can be changed so that we have a glimpse on what are playmobil's worries about everything (in this case a construction system).
"What is the unique benefit of such a system compared to all the other well established systems world wide?
(...)
What kind of input would be required from playmobil's part? And what, in turn, would this mean from various standpoints e.g. disclosure of information, manpower involved, costs involved?"
what i gather from this possible words is that playmobil could be interested in the development of a new building system but they would have to know very well what the pros and cons of it would be.
geometrically steck and system-x are not compatible.
the only way to join them would involve new parts that would fit in opposite sides to both systems - what socrates very well names as a bridge.
if you consider just the walls this would mean a part with "positive" and "negative" steck connections - actually 4 parts to contemplate steck on the right and steck on the left - with system x holes on the opposite side.
if you think this is getting complicated you have to imagine all the different heights that should be adressed.
if you turn into floors, ceilings and roofs chaos would be installed.
like arab warrior and macgayver i also think that steck is something from the past and that there is no point in pursuing this constructive path.
maybe it is faster to assemble but i prefer, and enjoy, spending some time mounting all the pieces of a new set.
smaller sytem-x parts resemblimg steck - like kenc suggests - could do the trick.
thinking outside the box - as richard wonderfully puts it - seem to me the smartest thing to do.
as a pirate fan i don't really know all the problems the "knights" have with their castles but, as an architect, i can imagine most of them.
the way i see it system-x was never used in its full potential - associated with a modular concept that would allow parts from different sets to be joined to create a new customized set.
i guess this went this way because the beautiful add-ons from each sets (i am thinking on the cranes in pirate fortresses) took over designers imagination - replacing the dull work of conceiving a modular system (how many holes, at which heights, in what colour and shape, with how many attachable sides, etc.).
in my view we should accept (and thank) playmobil for system-x and simply propose them to use it associated with a modular concept in all new sets.
if all these new parts could all be depicted in a 3d cad platform - what a great idea indianna - it would be lovely.
... to make all this as "buildable" as lego doesn't seem to me to be a realistic goal.
they use bricks as a module (just like it is done in traditional masonry).
all we can (should) do is to use the pre-fab wall concept as a module. :)
-
Thinking back to a previous thread when someone mentioned that most castles had to be square or rectangular (apart from round towers) I wondered if it would be possible to make a connector that could in some way be hinged so that it could be used at different angles - don't quite know how it could work :-[ but its a thought .....
Elaine
-
I think I have done it!!! :yippee:
This is what I have found... and at the end of it all, my solution!
System X is not only not as tall as steck, but not as wide:
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/349/038fz.jpg)
(http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1517/039pex.jpg)
This means you need a connector that is shaped like a Z, like this:
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6850/043dtb.jpg)
But that poses other problems.
So I worked and worked on some designs, nearly all day.
I realisedthat in order to be "perfect",
The connector would need to accomidate both steck and system X:
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9527/045yh.jpg)
But in the same end,
So I tried this:
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3736/046wc.jpg)
But again realised that there was still the difference in width to deal with...
So I was back at work and came up with the end solution, THIS:
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5773/050kqh.jpg)
When it's on the side it looks more like these,
Looking down at the slots, and looking with "x-ray vision" at what the inside looks like:
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1134/001fw.jpg)
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1848/004ip.jpg)
The tops "mingle" well with the connector, as you know the top of a system X castle wall is different from a steck castle's top. Here is what it looks like with the amount of space provided by the bridge piece:
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7821/0012y.jpg)
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2300/0032e.jpg)
If you have any questions I will answer them as best I can.
I think this will work, The difference in height does not matter because the system X connector is all along the "bridge" piece, and the piece is made to the height of steck so it will fit both. If the other system X pieces are larger then the steck pieces then the bridge piece can be made taller, elongating the system X connection to accomidate the higher system X piece.
Hopefully this helps, and I am so glad we get to have a role in designing the transition.
-
I think I have done it!!! :yippee:
This is what I have found... and at the end of it all, my solution!
. . .
:wow: A very elegant solution, WoT, well done! Brilliant the way you have designed it so that any connector edge can accomodate either Steck or SystemX!
-
:wow: A very elegant solution, WoT, well done! Brilliant the way you have designed it so that any connector edge can accomodate either Steck or SystemX!
Thanks Indianna. :)
I hope everyone else likes the idea.
-
I think I have done it!!! :yippee:
This is what I have found... and at the end of it all, my solution!
Wow this is fantastic WoT!!! More or less what i had in mind but a lot of steps further!!! Hope this is a good start....
-
Well Done :wow:! Your thought process has covered just about any situation imaginable :)9! The next question would be which Steck & System X building parts need to be reinstated to be beneficial in the "Add on's building components"?
-
WHY THEY WANT TO MIX STECK WITH SYSTEM X?? I THINK THAT SYSTEM X GIVES A VERY BAD IMAGE ON HOUSES AND CASTLES BECAUSE OF THE HOLES THAT ARE SHONE IT MIGHT BE CREATIVE FOR CHILDREN BUT HAS A BAD RESULT WHY THEY WANT TO MIX THOSE TWO SYSTEMS?? >:( >:( >:( >:(
-
WHY THEY WANT TO MIX STECK WITH SYSTEM X?? I THINK THAT SYSTEM X GIVES A VERY BAD IMAGE ON HOUSES AND CASTLES BECAUSE OF THE HOLES THAT ARE SHONE IT MIGHT BE CREATIVE FOR CHILDREN BUT HAS A BAD RESULT WHY THEY WANT TO MIX THOSE TWO SYSTEMS?? >:( >:( >:( >:(
Why are you shouting? >:(
I don't think "they" being Geobra have any specific interest in mixing Steck and System X, I think this is Richard's idea, as something to present when he goes to Zirndorf.
Personally, though I have both System X and Steck, I don't have any interest in connecting the two systems physically, as they don't look the same and will never mix convincingly. As you say, the "holes" in System X never look very good.
I would be interested in new pieces for either system, giving round towers for System X, and non-90 degree angles for both systems. I prefer the look of Steck because it doesn't leave obvious construction holes unplugged. Geobra's plan appears to be to use larger and larger pieces for building construction, reducing the customising possibilities, and making it hard to pack away.
-
excellent idea and work WoT !!!!! I am sureluy impressed and thats something surely to consider :)
-
Why are you shouting? >:(
I don't think "they" being Geobra have any specific interest in mixing Steck and System X, I think this is Richard's idea, as something to present when he goes to Zirndorf.
Personally, though I have both System X and Steck, I don't have any interest in connecting the two systems physically, as they don't look the same and will never mix convincingly. As you say, the "holes" in System X never look very good.
I would be interested in new pieces for either system, giving round towers for System X, and non-90 degree angles for both systems. I prefer the look of Steck because it doesn't leave obvious construction holes unplugged. Geobra's plan appears to be to use larger and larger pieces for building construction, reducing the customising possibilities, and making it hard to pack away.
i'am not shouting i write with capital so my post won't be ignored :!: :!: not that smart?? :eh?: :eh?:
i thought that this would be the way of making the new buildings for playmobil!! the way that the new castles are made with the large pieces as you say indeed is the worst way i don't have experience with it but from the discussions i read here and the way they look the new castles is dissapointing me :'( :'( :'( :'(
-
Well Done :wow:! Your thought process has covered just about any situation imaginable :)9! The next question would be which Steck & System X building parts need to be reinstated to be beneficial in the "Add on's building components"?
What do you mean Bill?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
next time use red ;)
Good idea, I always get the idea that caps means shouting.
Red will grab peoples attention without making them think you are mad.
-
What do you mean Bill?
I am inquiring to the membership Steck & System X specialists, to come up with a list of popular building components such as wall sections, connectors, that would be a great help in extending castles, etc. Playmobil could package them in an add on bag, say for example, 10 X 30076120 Steck wall sections, & 10 x 30076100 straight connector pieces.
-
You've certainly put a lot of time and effort into your solution, Warrior of Toys, and it looks like it will work!
Still, I have to agree with Martin in that I see no reason why anyone would want to combine Steck with System X. These are two distinct building systems, each with their strengths and weaknesses, that are different sizes and look completely different. Combining them would look awful. If Playmobil wants to do something for the adult enthusiast, I would suggest producing Steck again and adding round towers to System X.
Frankly, Playmobil could have avoided all of this frustration and the new awful click together system if they would have simply stayed with Steck all along.
-
That's a very interesting and well thought out solution, WoT, and many thanks for all your hard work there. Personally, I'm not sure it's the way to go but if it is then, answering Bill's questions about what add-on parts would people want, then I'd say a blank half timbered wall and double window units which aren't designed as corner units like the present ones are.
-
Hi everyone,
I may not be using proper techniques in questioning the subject of reinstating retired Steck & System X parts. This is the example I am trying to convey. Let's say you have a 3666 castle in your possession, & you want to expand the size to be larger, maybe much larger, like flatcat was attempting. The only way to succeed has been to buy job lots on eBay. This quest is expensive, & limited to completing projects. I am asking everyone if you could find the ultimate job/parts lot with limited parts of approximately 20 pieces, what parts would be the most sought after? If Playmobil was presented a list of Steck parts that COLLECTORS really covet, they may offer them in the small add on catalogs to assist in enlarging collectors Steck or System X projects in small batches. We could also recommend reinstating the add on Steck round & square castle turrent's, etc. that were previously available. I'm not a castle collector, but I constantly read posts of those who are! If Playmobil asked you as one of those collectors what parts you really, really wanted, up to a certain quantity & type, which ones would they be ???? Like if they asked me as a Playmobil fire department theme collector, which retired set I'd want parts to be reinstated & I know exactly which parts to ask for, or a collectors limited edition set, it would be the 3526 fire engine no doubt :love:! Simple question!
-
Great question Bill!!!
Here is my list...
30 02 8470 - Floor, 1x2 units (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8470)
30 02 8500 - Floor connector, 2 units long (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8500)
30 02 8640 - Wall, flat, 3-wide, two archways (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8640)
30 02 8580 - Roof end section (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8580)
30 02 8590 - Roof corner plate (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8590)
30 02 8350 - Roof gable end, stone, arched windows (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8350)
30 02 8410 - Framework wall, open, 3 units wide (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8410)
30 02 8720 - Window, arch-top, bottle-glass (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8720)
30 03 9800 - Floor, 2x2 units (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-03-9800)
...to think only a few...
Maybe playmobil does not intend to redesign any steck or system x whatsoever...but if exclusives sets are produced for collectors, or classic reissues happen, i want to see them happen :) :) :)
Maybe a totally diferent style will be developed...they are a toy company after all and i am sure they have a way to get feedback from their original target group, children and parents...
System x might be more time consuming to build but for some people it was fun to build for some others, the new types of castles and buildings allow parents and children to spend less time in building and more in playing... Take these facts under consideration as well....
-
Great question Bill!!!
Here is my list...
30 02 8470 - Floor, 1x2 units (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8470)
30 02 8500 - Floor connector, 2 units long (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8500)
30 02 8640 - Wall, flat, 3-wide, two archways (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8640)
30 02 8580 - Roof end section (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8580)
30 02 8590 - Roof corner plate (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8590)
30 02 8350 - Roof gable end, stone, arched windows (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8350)
30 02 8410 - Framework wall, open, 3 units wide (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8410)
30 02 8720 - Window, arch-top, bottle-glass (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8720)
30 03 9800 - Floor, 2x2 units (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-03-9800)
...to think only a few...
Maybe playmobil does not intend to redesign any steck or system x whatsoever...but if exclusives sets are produced for collectors, or classic reissues happen, i want to see them happen :) :) :)
Maybe a totally diferent style will be developed...they are a toy company after all and i am sure they have a way to get feedback from their original target group, children and parents...
System x might be more time consuming to build but for some people it was fun to build for some others, the new types of castles and buildings allow parents and children to spend less time in building and more in playing... Take these facts under consideration as well....
Excellent Panos! This is what I am after! All of you castle collectors are very knowledgeable as to what the bare bones are of making a castle larger, & I'm not at all :-[! If everyone reviews each others recommendations, & adds their ideas, Playmobil may be more receptive to reproducing those greatly loved Steck parts, & maybe even future SETS :love:! Imagine if you could see a Playmobil plastic add on bag full of parts just like you have on your list for $25.00 - $45.00 depending on content size containing a generous amount of those parts, how many would you buy while they were available ;)? I look at it like the System X modern family house add on extensions or other structures extensions that have been offered in the past, but offering them in Steck only :yippee:!
-
That would be great Bill!!! No more long nights on ebay trying to figure out which part to get and which to live out and then come back again later on ..... (not that it is not fun and not that i do not enjiy the trill of completing a project this way).....Yes i would get loads of extras produed as add ons for my castle projects...
-
I would like it better if individual pieces were not produced,
But some wall sections were presented as Add-Ons.
Like if you had these pieces all put together in one set:
30 07 6120 - Wall, Flat, Plain, Double-Male Connectors (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-07-6120) (number of pieces: 1)
30 07 6080 - Wall Connector, T-junction, Triple-Female (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-07-6080) (1)
30 07 6810 - Battlement, scalloped front, 1 unit wide (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-07-6810) (1)
30 07 6770 - Battlement connector, new-style (flat bottom) (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-07-6770) (1)
30 07 6090 - Wall End, Male Connector (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-07-6090) (1)
30 02 8740 - Filler for Wall ('Toast') (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-8740) (2)
30 07 6150 - Floor, rectangular, 1-wide (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-07-6150) (1)
30 02 9150 - Floor connector, 1/2-unit long (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showpart.pl?partnum=30-02-9150) (1)
And you can have different sets of these, maybe a set with a wondow or arrow slots instead of a plain wall.
And you can order different connectors specially, along with different floor pieces.
That is what I would like to see.
-
I think WoT sketches is the most logical approach so far ... I am trying something right now with some scaled system x and steck connectors i have drawn , the question of connectors and a 4 sided connector , ' universal' if i ma call it poses many other questions also, regarding roof , top parts etc. i will still work on these and post any decent develoments. However i will stick to the point mentioned before and i agree, bring a set of the most wanted and needed steck parts as an add on.. Sir Wolf has demonstated a great set of steck parts
-
I am working with a scaled connector design in design software, harder than i anticipated , has brought up more questions than answers especially about heights and connections of other related parts, when and if i have a proposal will post .. not as easy as i thought .,... >:( >:(
-
I am working with a scaled connector design in design software, harder than i anticipated , has brought up more questions than answers especially about heights and connections of other related parts, when and if i have a proposal will post .. not as easy as i thought .,... >:( >:(
Indeed, The difference in width makes it quite hard to create anything that will work well.
That is why I have the 2 connector holes, having just one on each side is hard... maybe impossible.
-
I've not forgotten that I said I would post some ideas. I am working on it, in my mind at the moment but progress is being made and it is really finding the time to do some drawings and write things down. I'm following my own route and thinking of a new system rather than trying to combine two different systems with all the problems that can bring.
-
I've not forgotten that I said I would post some ideas. I am working on it, in my mind at the moment but progress is being made and it is really finding the time to do some drawings and write things down. I'm following my own route and thinking of a new system rather than trying to combine two different systems with all the problems that can bring.
Sound interesting Gordon!!! Cannot wait to see your results!!!
-
It is very exciting to see the creative forces that have been unleashed here! People are designing new parts and even thinking up whole new building systems. To me this is the true beauty of Playmobil: playing with Playmobil, whether one is an adult or a child, encourages creative, outside-the-box thinking.
A few random comments:
- Some folks have questioned the need for a Steck/SystemX connector. I agree that there is not a lot of demand for one but I still think that it would be great if Playmobil produced one because its use could lead to new and exciting designs that we can't even imagine right now.
- Steck and SystemX have their problems and limitations, but they have also proven to have wonderful possibiities. There are a lot of people out there in the world who have already invested in one or both of these systems. It makes good business sense to support those people with replacement parts as well new parts. As far as I am concerned, Playmobil never has to release another boxed set of Steck or SystemX if only they would offer parts and (bagged) sets through an expanded Direct Service.
- An expanded on-line Direct Service could be a real benefit to Playmobil from a business perspective. They would very likely see a higher profit on DS items because:- they are shipping directly to the consumer who is buying it right now at retail price rather than to a toy retailer (who buys at wholesale price) where an item can sit on a store shelf indefinitely
- they don't need to use a set box which has its own production costs and leads to higher overall shipping costs due to added weight and size (all that mysterious "rarefied air" that occupies so much space in so many Playmobil boxes.)
- they would have more and better information about what their customers desire
-
It is very exciting to see the creative forces that have been unleashed here! People are designing new parts and even thinking up whole new building systems. To me this is the true beauty of Playmobil: playing with Playmobil, whether one is an adult or a child, encourages creative, outside-the-box thinking.
A few random comments:
- Some folks have questioned the need for a Steck/SystemX connector. I agree that there is not a lot of demand for one but I still think that it would be great if Playmobil produced one because its use could lead to new and exciting designs that we can't even imagine right now.
- Steck and SystemX have their problems and limitations, but they have also proven to have wonderful possibiities. There are a lot of people out there in the world who have already invested in one or both of these systems. It makes good business sense to support those people with replacement parts as well new parts. As far as I am concerned, Playmobil never has to release another boxed set of Steck or SystemX if only they would offer parts and (bagged) sets through an expanded Direct Service.
- An expanded on-line Direct Service could be a real benefit to Playmobil from a business perspective. They would very likely see a higher profit on DS items because:- they are shipping directly to the consumer who is buying it right now at retail price rather than to a toy retailer (who buys at wholesale price) where an item can sit on a store shelf indefinitely
- they don't need to use a set box which has its own production costs and leads to higher overall shipping costs due to added weight and size (all that mysterious "rarefied air" that occupies so much space in so many Playmobil boxes.)
- they would have more and better information about what their customers desire
Interesting points indiana!!!
-
Back to the point of this thread , i am hoping to post a connector design and a 90degree adaptor in the next few days subject to a check up that its all scaled correctly etc etc ;D ;D
-
Back to the point of this thread , i am hoping to post a connector design and a 90degree adaptor in the next few days subject to a check up that its all scaled correctly etc etc ;D ;D
You are quite right, Giorginetto, some of us have strayed from answering Richard's original challenge:
STECK DESIGNER WANTED
We would like to find someone who can revamp Playmobil's SystemX and Steck Systems so that they work together and work better!
This new "combination" system needs to be mathematically logical like Lego only all Playmobil.
Do we have any members here at Playmofriends that can do this? The preliminary design will be presented in Zirndorf in about six weeks!
In thinking about this challenge some questions arise:
- Why do Steck and SystemX have to "work together?" That implies a set of connector pieces that would allow mixing of the two systems. Personally, I think that it would be great to have these connector pieces, but I think the larger issue is that the two sets are less than compatible when it comes to color and style. The ability to order both Steck and SystemX pieces in additional colors would allow structures from the two systems to stand side by side with more success.
- Why does the entire system need to be "mathematically logical like LEGO?" While LEGO is based upon the brick unit, there are hundreds (thousands?) of LEGO building pieces that are highly specialized and not universal - even the bricks are not 100% universal, something that people discover when they build their own designs. Both Steck and SystemX may have limitations, but they both possess their own internal logic. I believe that many of the limitations of the two systems could be resolved by adding new pieces (and colors) rather than by creating a totally new system.
- How do we make Steck and SystemX "work better?" Again, the answer is to develop new parts that solve the problems which arise when people try to execute their own designs. A great number of such pieces have already been identified by folks who make their own building designs - we just need a way to communicate the specifications of those pieces to Playmobil and secure their commitment to producing them. A few examples would be:
- Steck/SystemX connectors
- 4-way connectors with various combinations of tab edges and slot edges (i.e. male/female :-[ )
- pieces to allow wider structures and taller structures
- filler pieces for SystemX holes
- If a whole new system were to be developed, will it really be compatible with Steck and SystemX? If not, then there should be a commitment to make Steck and SystemX parts available since there are so many Playmobil customers who have already invested in Steck and SystemX.
-
That's an interesting idea ... I wish I were a designer, or I could help to develop something (anything) for the Playmobil universe ...
I can't, but I could give hint: wouldn't it be interesting if the designers among us could provide drawings? (Maybe not, but, well, it's only an idea ... I'm not a designer, after all.)
Gus
:blackhair:
-
Back to the point of this thread , i am hoping to post a connector design and a 90degree adaptor in the next few days subject to a check up that its all scaled correctly etc etc ;D ;D
Can't wait to se your results Giorginetto!!!
-
I beleive that we have strayed a little farther then we think from Richard's original question...
I don't believe what Richard asked was for a new system...
Just a way of connecting the two systems we have.
Wasn't that what this topic was about? ???
-
I beleive that we have strayed a little farther then we think from Richard's original question...
I don't believe what Richard asked was for a new system...
Just a way of connecting the two systems we have.
Wasn't that what this topic was about? ???
Yes that was Richard's original idea.... But it does not hurt to come up with a few more proposals.... So back to the original question...
-
STECK DESIGNER WANTED
We would like to find someone who can revamp Playmobil's SystemX and Steck Systems so that they work together and work better!
This new "combination" system needs to be mathematically logical like Lego only all Playmobil.
Do we have any members here at Playmofriends that can do this? The preliminary design will be presented in Zirndorf in about six weeks!
Actually, Richard's original post in this thread (as quoted above) does seem to call for a whole new system - at least that is how I read it. Perhaps Richard, himself, can help us out with a clarification. Oh, Richard . . . :help:
-
Can't wait to se your results Giorginetto!!!
I havent managed to come up with an eloquent design as planned ... :-\ :-\ :-\.... I really cant see a universal way to bridge system x and steck apart from some bespoke connectors for certain commonly used parts which on teh other hand creates other problems ..... i think its avery difficult task and really hope someone comes up with a solution !!!! 0)
-
I hope to post some ideas today or tomorrow. I'm just working on some drawings.
-
Topic split, as requested. :)
http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=4677.0
-
Topic split, as requested. :)
http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=4677.0
Thanks Sylvia. :wave:
-
A simple version might be caps and “T” connectors (like “Female wall end connector/3Ø Ø7 6Ø7Ø,” “Triple female t-junction wall connector/3Ø Ø7 6Ø8Ø,” and “Male wall end connector/3Ø Ø7 6Ø9Ø”) with System X male pegs sticking out. I could one-off those in my garage.
-
i asked sylvia :love: to move this thread to this section so that it could create some synergies with:
system x designer wanted" - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=5760.0
"another idea for a new playmobil construction system" - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=4677.msg61209#msg61209
"a new construction system for playmobil... " - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=4623.0
let´s see if it will work, steck and system-x together. ;)
-
meanwhile i received this message form klickywelt's :wow: sir george I:
" Hello pedro,
Thanks for sending the link.
I watched the site and it seems to me that there are many people interrested to get the libary of the 3d steck parts for google sketch up.
At first i thought i'll get a member of this community to offer the free link to the libary, but i saw that i have to pay 5 euros to get a member and so i decided to contact you again. I'd like to share my 'hard-work' with anyone who's interrested for free, but i'm not so amused to pay 5 euros that i can do this.
I would be very nice from you, if you post the link you can see on ''klickywelt'' in your thread on playmo-friends. So anybody can get the library for free.
So if you will do this, please write me back, and i'll always sent you a message with the link for updates.
friendly regards
Sir George I"
so, for all those of you who want to start "sketching" using 3d-steck parts, her's the link - http://www.klickywelt.de/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=41548.
now it is in your hands to improve steck instead of simply crying "bring back steck". ;)
-
...
now it is in your hands to improve steck instead of simply crying "bring back steck".[/font] ;)
Why improve it? ???
It is a good system that works,
And we would like to have it back.
The only improvement we can think of is to
create 45* angles to make more realistic looking walls,
We don't want a new system, just the old one back. :-\
-
hello w.o.t.,
i am sorry if i mis-expressed what i wanted to say.
what i meant by improvement was just that - new ways to use steck with a few more new pieces.
if you want to show geobra the need to re-produce steck, it will be easier if you show them 3-d models of what can-be-done-and-is't-yet-done or what-cn-be-done-if-we-had-this-new-pieces.
it is the same problem with system-x.
the difference it that sir pleamo decided to come and help and sir george I isn't yet convinced (he is staying solely with klickywelt but he volunteered his 3-d models).
-
hello w.o.t.,
i am sorry if i mis-expressed what i wanted to say.
what i meant by improvement was just that - new ways to use steck with a few more new pieces.
if you want to show geobra the need to re-produce steck, it will be easier if you show them 3-d models of what can-be-done-and-is't-yet-done or what-cn-be-done-if-we-had-this-new-pieces.
it is the same problem with system-x.
the difference it that sir pleamo decided to come and help and sir george I isn't yet convinced (he is staying solely with klickywelt but he volunteered his 3-d models).
Oh, ok.
Yes that makes sense. :)