PlaymoFriends
General => News => Topic started by: Macruran on July 02, 2015, 20:05:08
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On PM packaging and in many fan dioramas bayonets are shown affixed to muskets like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/LNtQu51.jpg)
However this is not correct. Bayonets in real life were always affixed at the tip of the musket, with the blade usually on the right side, like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/qaZrL1y.jpg) (http://imgur.com/qaZrL1y)
Proof here (http://www.icollector.com/BRITISH-BROWN-BESS-MUSKET-AND-BAYONET_i11085958), here (http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/brownbess_muzzle_3159web.jpg), here (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4403328_civil-war-musket-and-bayonet-marked-tower-1861), here (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IYGc_MWwkfw/ST89B8yDTqI/AAAAAAAAAh0/aWkqaCMESLI/s400/820_musket_bayonet.jpg), here (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/367676757049894901/), and here (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/TonyBarton/media/more%20dollies/charge-bayonets.jpg.html).
Fixing the bayonet in this way is not only historically accurate, it also looks a lot better.
There's a new style musket about. It has a front sight, which prevents the bayonet being fixed to the side, so it must be mounted underneath, like so:
(http://i.imgur.com/B8b5qvV.jpg) (http://imgur.com/B8b5qvV)
The old style musket can have its bayonet mounted like this too:
(http://i.imgur.com/DUFStwB.jpg) (http://imgur.com/DUFStwB)
(I suspect the front sight was not universal on muskets, and perhaps was used only on rifles of the period, but I am not certain.)
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Thanks for sharing that detail. I don't think I thought about it much.
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Thanks, Macruran!
Hopefully, everyone will heed your post and stop fixing their bayonets incorrectly!
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(http://gardenwargaming.com/armies/tricorne/images/austrians1.JPG)
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:-[ I have always put mine on top. I will try and remember to fix that. :-[
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You're absolutely right about the correct position..otherwise the rod cant be pulled out from under the barrel.
but I never found out why on the right only and never to the left.
btw, I only use these new rifles for my northerners' sharpshooters or those not fixed with bayonets....the newer rifle looks nicer of course...somehow they look longer (the older rifles need to be fixed with bayonets to appear longer...maybe this illusion works only for me :P)
Thanks too, Macruran!
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You're absolutely right about the correct position..otherwise the rod cant be pulled out from under the barrel.
I only use these new rifles for my northerners' sharpshooters
I didn't even think of that! The bayonet HAS to be mounted to the side.
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but I never found out why on the right only and never to the left.
I'd guess a left mount, being inside, would interfere with the musketeer's sight more.
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I understand that originally bayonets were actually fixed to the musket by being slotted into the barrel, meaning that it couldn't be fired when the musket was fixed to it.
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I have mine on the left, because it looks better if the soldier has it in his right hand.
I would have thought that the thing should be mounted below so it doesn't interfere with sight. It looks best on the left (when using the right hand).
But I agree, it should be as far out as possible! The first pick is completely wrong! Good eye!
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like HLukas, mine too are on the left, otherwise the bayonets would hit the hats when held over their right shoulders.
Macruran, what you said makes sense to me.
.....maybe when aiming using their right eyes, its bothersome to still see the bayonet when their left eyes are not closed (but like Gordon says, those older type bayonets are fitted into the barrels, so it wont be there in the first place, when aiming).
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What about Playmobil´s classic bolt-action rifle?
I assume a rod for a cartridge-firing multi-shot rifle only has a barrel-cleaning purpose? And I don´t think it is accurate for the bayonet to be fixed by sliding it over the rod?
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Some brief internet research has revealed that, with rare exceptions (such as this Mosin Nagant (http://waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=1062&start=45#p6330) from 1944), most bolt action rifles had bayonets that mounted directly under the barrel, with blade protruding forward beyond the muzzle and the handle usually behind, exactly as our PM rifle has it. Almost all the examples I could find show the bayonet interfering with the cleaning rod to some degree, with a number mounting right over it.
So PM got this one right.
I also found a number of hooked quillons (hilt crossguards), most hooked forwards but at least one hooked backwards (http://skyttergrav.com/s98%20001.JPG) like PM's.
Tangentially, my search turned up the fact that the different British Foot Guards regiments (the bearskin guys) have different patterns of buttons on their tunics (https://www.flickr.com/photos/63385174@N06/9361818669). The three button pattern on the Fi?ures version of the Guardsman is that of the Scots Guards.
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/4894134305/7361656/0e07fa38090e66ada7328799093f5218.jpg
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/10159795
http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/militaria/wwi-dated-carl-gustafs-stads-model-m96-swedish-mauser-rifle-bayonet-scabbard/prod_2737.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet#/media/File:World-War-II-US-Military-Bayonets.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chassepot_bayonet_assembly.jpg
http://arms2armor.com/Bayonets/brit1907.htm
http://worldbayonets.com/Historical%20Timeline/Bayonet_Timeline_1898.html
http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Identification_Guide/Egypt/hakim_swede.html
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thanks Macruran for sharing!
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Hello Cheng,
Looks like Macruran should also be joining us over at GW-PC!
What do you think? ;)
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Hello Cheng,
Looks like Macruran should also be joining us over at GW-PC!
What do you think? ;)
Oh Richard, Definitely! I don't ;D know why but I just must be historically correct or at least not totally wrong....
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I've certainly admired the work on GW-PC for a few years now. I doubt my own meager holdings are up to the standards there though.
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I've certainly admired the work on GW-PC for a few years now. I doubt my own meager holdings are up to the standards there though.
Macruran,
Don't worry about your "meager holdings", your "research" is more than up to the GW-PC "standards"!
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I have mine on the left, because it looks better if the soldier has it in his right hand.
like HLukas, mine too are on the left, otherwise the bayonets would hit the hats when held over their right shoulders.
Another bout of googling for "napoleonic marching infantry" has turned up many pictures. In almost every single case the soldiers are carrying their muskets over their LEFT shoulders.
So you can put your bayonets back on the correct side! :D
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Left shoulders?? Any rationale? I have to leave mine as they are now cos I paint my rifle barrels, so my bayonets must not be shifted...how about acw? I hope Americans prefer to do things in the opposite way!
Richard, we enjoy such discussions right...we need more people like Macruran in every forum
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Left shoulders?? Any rationale?
I don't know but I'd guess to avoid hitting their hats with their bayonets!
I have to leave mine as they are now cos I paint my rifle barrels, so my bayonets must not be shifted...how about acw? I hope Americans prefer to do things in the opposite way!
I'm seeing a mixture for ACW, with plenty on the right hand side. Though they often seem to be marching with their weapons trigger out, instead of trigger in like the Napoleonics.
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I don't know but I'd guess to avoid hitting their hats with their bayonets!
I'm seeing a mixture for ACW, with plenty on the right hand side. Though they often seem to be marching with their weapons trigger out, instead of trigger in like the Napoleonics.
haha, in kliky world, i switched bayonet sides so fit klikies' right hands, while in the real world, soldiers had to switch hands to accomodate their bayonets? ok...accept your logic until we find a different reason.
as for 'trigger in or out' I think this is a good point to research too....if this was playmoboard, posts would be flying in fast and furious (not in an angry sense) from many members...i only hope pf dont mind us getting too serious about such details here.
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If you carry a second weapon like a pistol or a sword, you carry your gun on your left shoulder so you can use your right arm to pull out/ use the other weapon (unless you are left handed) ;)
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:hmm: finally i am understanding why pirates had such an easy way conquering entire cities.
while redcoats were trying to decide where and how to fix their bayonets, pirates simply had no problems with their cutlasses and axes.
- what's the problem, you don't want to fight?
- i am sorry, i just can't figure the instructions that came with this bayonet?
- can i go on alone then?
- be my guest, please.
- do you prefer to be slashed on your right side or left?
- could you please be the one to decide? just as long as you don't ruin my hat i am o.k. with both sides.
- o.k. here it goes.
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i've never seen such a bloody topic in this board.
blue blood, of course. :)
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i can only imagine the terror of being charged at with a bayonet.
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Well just think how the klickies feel!
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Good thing the playmobil bajonets are dull so they wont feel much of it. ;)
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;) shame is also a feeling rhalius.
and shame can make a klicky bleed inside...
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Left shoulders?? Any rationale?
In case of the Redcoats I can understand, after all they also drive on the wrong side of the road ;D
After an hours long Google search, I found no good answer about the weapon carried over the left or right shoulder, only some similar questions on ACW reenactment forums ...
(I did learn that Napoleon still preferred faster muskets for his troops over more accurate rifles, which the British preferred.)