PlaymoFriends
General => News => Topic started by: Macruran on June 04, 2015, 22:22:30
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Continuing from http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=14755.0
playmobil is a "global" toy.
geobra's attention could/should also be global.
fortunately, in some markets, the percentages are so very much different from what we see in germany.
and, fortunately, skin color is harder to define and has less importance.
i'm thinking about brazil - one of the fastest growing world economies, an enormous potential market.
and spain - one of the most traditional european markets for playmobil.
if geobra needs a reason to "get it right", maybe money would be a good incentive.
And i don't think the way to go is to create more "ethnic" themes to fill them with non-white-non-blond klickies.
all would be well just as long we keep the
variety is just great, that's what i feel.
and actually, the inter-changeable fugure series allow just this (although they are so very clumsy sold in 2 diffrent color packages).
it was not magellan, a portuguese "white", the first human ever to have sailed around the world.
actually he died in the phillippines and so, he missed it by an entire ocean.
and it was not juan sebastián elcano either (one of his surviving captains).
it was an magellan's personal slave, enrique.
despite his name, he was from malacca or sumatra (on malaisia or indonesia).
so, when they crossed those longitudes he was the first human to go around the 360º.
did he had light pink skin and blonde hair?
i really don't think so.
and i think that, if an excess of "ethnic" figures is made from now on in every theme, it would only be a small "mistake" when compared with the 2 700 000 000 klickies geobra has already produced in the past with the "wrong" percentage of skin colors.
would anyone be annoyed by this?
i know i wouldn't.
But you're annoyed by the current "excess" of white klickies. Why? Please explain exactly what is wrong with having a lot of white klickies.
Geobra is not a global company. It's a German company that sells primarily to European markets. If as you say there is real money to be made by altering the color makeup of klickies, then there is no need to apply social or political pressure, is there? It will happen naturally. But as long as the main market is Europe, the profit incentive will not likely be present.
I am happy to let things take their natural course.
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You know, I think they are actually moving in that very direction, with a wide variety of skin tones in the newest themes. Check out the clickies in the waterpark theme, the kindergarten theme and the camping site theme.
And since a lot of their decisions lately are completey marketing based, that decision probably has something to do with making more money too. Makes sense.
By the way, Lego nicely avoided that one ;D
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France#Ethnic_groups
85%-90% white French. Approximately 3% black. Comparable to the 3 out of 87 ratio mentioned above.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Light_hair_coloration_map.png
Germany has a higher percentage of blondes than most other countries in the world, as do most of Geobra's primary markets, so it's natural that they will create more blonde toys.
I couldn't agree more. It signals a sad move away from historically accurate brilliance like the Egypt and Rome themes. Even the Knights theme is getting wackier.
Statistics on ethnicities are iffy in France because the government can't ask on official forms and there are undocumented residents. The 3.5% is just ''blacks''. It does not include those of North African descent (estimated at 10% over 10 years ago) or the growing population with mixed ethnic origins that isn't represented in the estimates at all! Those intermediary skin tones could be used more.
What bugs me about the blonds is that it is gendered. There's a lot of blond female klickies in the mystery figures. In the new add-on catalog, we have once again child multifigures and the girl is again blonde.
And can we please have Asian people who are not samurais, martial artists, geishas, or ninjas?
They are moving in the right direction, certainly, but there's still a ways to go.
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how could you translate the skin tone of north africans/med people? im maltese and olive skinned, like many spanish and italians. is there a colour for us? not that i care (my self worth as a person goes beyond such triviaities ....) but i was just wondering.
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how could you translate the skin tone of north africans/med people? im maltese and olive skinned, like many spanish and italians. is there a colour for us? not that i care (my self worth as a person goes beyond such triviaities ....) but i was just wondering.
I would use the 2nd lightest skin tone (the newish one) for people who are a bit darker than standard ''white'' skin tone. It's not about self-worth. It's about giving kids klickies they can identify with.
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oh come on, is this what the world has come to? i am maltese and quite swarthy, and yet when i was a kid i identified with charlton heston, and what's wrong with that? :)
because strecthing it to the absurd limit, you either put asian klickies in the US fort sets so that everyone feels included, or else only american kids should play with them, cause what you're basically saying is that only they would identify with those klickies and that scenario. :)
anyway ... can someone post a pic of this second lightest skin tone please, to see whether i can identify myself with it?
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I'm not saying that kids can't identify with klickies that don't look like them, but let's give them that choice. I grew up when most doll brands had blonde and white or black-haired and black. That's frustrating for a kid.
The 2nd lightest skin tone is in my avatar.
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that's a good skin tone, yes.
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As long as it fits the theme I am fine with it.
I'd find black skinned knights and asian romans too politically correct for example, in that case it would break the immersion of the theme.
However they could make an entire pirate crew consist of black clickies.
And they did have a black gladiator in the roman theme. Yes gladiators are slaves, but in this case it was alongside white gladiators which showed accuratly that they enslaved everyone and it was not based on skincolor.
So that did allow for a black gladiator to be the hero. In fact I believe they did just that with the official animated little movie. He was captured, became gladiator, fought and found his freedom.
So what I'm saying is, go for diversity but dont impose it where it is out of place. Instead there can always be looked for plausible solutions instead.
In a medieval theme, black clickies could be traveling merchants dressed in middle eastern fasion, that could go well with a merchant ship.
Adding the occasional asian pirate in the pirate theme seems like a good move. Now we just need asian and black female pirates. Or maybe a female pirate with an eyepatch, hook or wooden leg. They never had that.
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agree 100%
if they want, say, muslims to identify with playmobil, give us a crusades theme finally, no silly bad guy eyebrows and crazy eyes, just smiley klickies and children can decide which faction they want to identify with.
positive discrimination sucks, like with the re launch of the western theme where the indians were the good guys and the cowboys were the bad guys. it could and should have been more balanced than that, but as we can see, this kind of thing goes down well pr-wise nowadays.
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I've found when visiting Malta that the blue-eyed blonde is as likely to be Maltese as the olive-skinned/swarthy/brown brown-eyed person.
As regards increasing numbers of skin tones, Playmobil is almost certainly looking to expand outside Europe and into North Africa and the Near East and Middle East.
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As long as it fits the theme I am fine with it.
I'd find black skinned knights and asian romans too politically correct for example, in that case it would break the immersion of the theme.
However they could make an entire pirate crew consist of black clickies.
And they did have a black gladiator in the roman theme. Yes gladiators are slaves, but in this case it was alongside white gladiators which showed accuratly that they enslaved everyone and it was not based on skincolor.
So that did allow for a black gladiator to be the hero. In fact I believe they did just that with the official animated little movie. He was captured, became gladiator, fought and found his freedom.
So what I'm saying is, go for diversity but dont impose it where it is out of place. Instead there can always be looked for plausible solutions instead.
In a medieval theme, black clickies could be traveling merchants dressed in middle eastern fasion, that could go well with a merchant ship.
Adding the occasional asian pirate in the pirate theme seems like a good move. Now we just need asian and black female pirates. Or maybe a female pirate with an eyepatch, hook or wooden leg. They never had that.
Ditto.
For historical themes, the ethnic diversity should be plausible. There were travelers in ancient times.
For modern and fantasy themes, there should be a decent diversity.
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maybe this topic could be better placed elsewhere instead of on the NEWS section.
this is such a complicated problem.
and, in my oppinion, very difficult to discuss.
what i think is that geobra could be a smarter company if they changed a little bit the balance between skin colors.
maybe they are a german company but they sell globally and, i'm sure, they are interested in selling everywhere they can.
this needs a new sensibility from them.
and children are not the ones who will complain - they can play with everything, with every shape, and every color.
and they are starting to prefer "virtual" playing to "reality" playing.
and this will be a problem to geobra.
and they need not to make any mistake if they want to survive - geobra, i mean.
a campaign started by anyone who decides to pick on playmobil as an example for lack of "ethnicity" could be disastrous.
remember how geobra was criticized because of the airport chek-in set?
this would be a little bit worse.
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positive discrimination sucks, like with the re launch of the western theme where the Indians were the good guys and the cowboys were the bad guys. it could and should have been more balanced than that, but as we can see, this kind of thing goes down well pr-wise nowadays.
Natives minding their own business on their own land being invaded by conquering foreigners, ya I think they got it right this time.
using toys to spread propaganda through children is even worse. historical themes should represent the facts.
The use of black as the evil factions while the good Anglo blue/gold empire conquerors.... basically becomes ethnicism
The Roman theme was the best. Anglo Romans living the high life while the darkies were sword wielding robbers
In the Cavewoman theme again, the Anglo have a nice posh mountain top house while the darkies have to live in a rotting carcass of a hut
Maybe when the US 50's theme comes out they can have divided buses, separate bathrooms, the poor black neighborhood could look like slums and lots and lots of German Shepard's for the hard working cops, just please make the executioners hood in white ;)
In my opinion there is lots of ethnic diversity...it is just portrayed poorly
Grow up Geobra ::)
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just a few historical examples.
cavemen theme - why should they all be tanned?
are they primitive humans (as the saber-toothed tger suggests) or more modern homo sapiens or neanderthal.
in the last option, they could have a lighter skin color and red hair.
in the second one, they could have all skin and hair colors.
in the first one, maybe playmo-chimps would be easily modified to do the trick.
roman theme - why are they all light pink
the roman empire extended from scotland to turkey and morocco.
i doubt there were enough light pink romans to populate this vast territory.
from berbers to huns, there are a lot of "ethnic" groups that could add a little more variety and historic "trueness" to this theme.
medieval theme.
this is problem the most "ethnic"-closed theme.
again, th medieval times (considering only europe as an example) were filled with nomadic moves and invasions specially from north africa and central asia.
i seem to recall arabs being the rulers of portugal and spain and the mongols having an empire that reached - guess where? - germany's borders.
another good "excuse" to introduce different "ethnicities" to keep company with teutonic kinghts.
:) and i am sure children, as i've said before, regardless of their skin color, age, gender, religion, etc., would love all of these new figures.
p.s. rasputin wrote a new message before i ahd any time to read it.
you are so right ras: GROW UP is the right advice.
children are small and only grown-ups and their businesses, in a way, can/need really to grow-up.
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To me, I still think the stupid gender thing is a LOT worse.
using toys to spread propaganda through children is even worse.
Well, and there's that. Religious propaganda disguised in smiling klickys is the worse. At least they seemed to have toned it down - a BIT.
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Egyptian theme was its own thing though and had both Egyptian soldiers and egyptian thieves. While the theme could be combined with Romans, they where seperate themes.
If they would release more romans, then the new slightly tanned skin would be perfect for them but they didnt have that skintone yet back then.
I do think that generally they are handling the ethnic balance quite well and they improve on it through the years. Its really mostly the gender issues that they need to get over.
It's especially black clicky women who are underrepresented. They do appear in the girl themes and I give them credit for including a black fairy, but have they ever been in an action role? Black female cops, firewomen, pirates, etc?
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come on tahra - you are being very unfair.
just as people with brown skin color should only be present in sets where they don't compromise historical or geographical accuracy, geobra is very aware of where and how women should be,
... or maybe i should say to stay instead of to be.
and, as everybody knows, this is the right way to explain basic things to the grown-ups of the future.
just in case they have any doubts,
this is not being sexist - on the contrary - this is bein realist.
everyone recognizes the special role women should exclusively have in some situations and geobra celebrates this with the outmost care.
women, and not men (not even one) should thake care of small children:
- whether at the playground, keeping company to pregnant women or taking a bunch of kids (even twins) for a walk or a ride, women should be the only one present;
- a man in these surroundings is, of course, someone to watch carefully, specially if he is wearing a rain-coat;
but this is not the only things women are good at - far from it:
- they are the only customers at shopping centers and at the clothing stores (no men should even be allowed);
- they work-out alone at the gymn (i bet she needs to loose a few kilos);
- only women are getting ready for photo-shoot sessions and (of course) for modeling try-outs;
- they are the ones who exclusively need a hairdresser (men's hair, everyone knows, doesn't grow);
- and they simply are the best decorating strange clothing-sculptures somewhere;
this is how thing are - the natural way to go.
more than this, this is the way things should be.
expecting toys to change the way children see things could be conseidered as a rude interference in the parents education.
when i say parents i mean, of course, only mothers.
in other fields of expertise, for example, you only see men.
and this is the way things are and should be.
- can you imagine how odd it would be if it was a woman driving the new porsche 911.
- i bet they would't even know how to do it.
- they should stick to white and pink convertibles and mini cars;
- and even if they insist on doing it (the fools) they should never be seen at the wheel - near to the door in the company of a child or of a small dog is close enough.
and, the pièce de resistance - the way women suddenly change when they are sunbathing.
- they just stop to care about anything else, even if there's a child on the verge of getting drowned in the pool;
- this is, of course, common knowledge.
and geobra couldn't have done it better.
the perfect city life, see for yourselves - http://www.playmobil.de/online-shop/sortiment/city-life
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:lol: I was so relieved when I noticed the sarcasm.
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you guys carry the guilt of your forefathers ... the british, the portuguese, the spanish, the germans ... that's why you are so touchy about this subject. us, the maltese, we've always been a colonized nation, we have been passed from one colonizer to the other, we have always been downtrodden, that's why we tend to feel less guilty and hung up about such things ;)
because let's face it, the people who are most sensitive to these issues, ironically, are not the downtrodden themselves, but rather the ones frantz fanon would call 'the other'.
(and often it does feel patronizing ...)
of course, had we been a huge nation with an empire to match, we would have done the same as the others. and guess what ... so would the native americans, the australian aborigines, the people of the south pacific etc etc. no ethinicity is less evil than another.
the 'noble savage' philosophy belongs to the 19th century.
it's basic human nature, whether we like it or not ;)
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come on bollingbroke, there's no "other" or "me".
it's all the same.
patronizing would mean that i would be patronizing myself.
besides being homo-sapiens-sapiens (apparently with some neanderthal dna in some cases) we are all different, and so, in a way, all the same.
you being a maltese or portuguese doesn't make you better than anyone.
you being a good person does.
this is actually, i think, the big difference.
being smarter or faster or stronger is just, most of the times, a simple biological accident.
liberté, egalité, fraternité is still a good motto, even if it comes from the end of the 18th century.
do you think klickies also discuss these themes when we are asleep?
i think i heard 2 of my pirates discussing locke vs. descartes the other night.
but when i turned on the lights they seemed silent, hanging on their ratlines.
humm... :hmm:
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yes there is, in sociological and anthropological terms, and much ink has been 'wasted' on this subject!
:)
but anyway, a very thorny subject and im always reluctant to get involved but then i always do :P
pm is fun because it lets the imagination run wild. but please let's not get too prescriptive! no need for darker or lighter skinned characters to make people feel inckuded! it's the equivalent of 'baddy' eyes in the pirates theme. just give us normal, classic klickies, and our imagination can do the rest ...
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can't we just let playmobil be playmobil, and enjoy the smile? ::) :toot:
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you are right bollingbroke, long live the classic klickies.
they had an abstract quality that made it easier for out imagination to go wild.
maybe nowadays, when their design is getting so much more intricate (multiple hairstyles, multiple printing all over, multiple eye contours, multiple everything) and, in a word, figurative, our attention gets caught by other things (small and big).
maybe rasputin is actually totally wrong and, instead of growing-up, what geobra needs is to shrink-down. :)
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- can you imagine how odd it would be if it was a woman driving the new porsche 911.
- i bet they would't even know how to do it.
- they should stick to white and pink convertibles and mini cars;
- and even if they insist on doing it (the fools) they should never be seen at the wheel - near to the door in the company of a child or of a small dog is close enough.
The first thing my daughter did when she got the 911 Porsche was to replace the male driver with a female one. And then she put a lot of children in the car and declared it to be the "kindergarten bus". :)
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Maybe that was a not so subtle hint that she wants mommy to drop her off at school in a Porsche 911. ;D
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Maybe that was a not so subtle hint that she wants mommy to drop her off at school in a Porsche 911. ;D
:lmao: :lmao:
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''Baddy eyes'' are completely different from skin tones. One is an emotional expression; the other a more-or-less permanent characteristic. Playmobil has acknowledged the merits of the Toy Like Me campaign; they also have to recognize the growing need for multiethnic toys.
I'm not carrying the guilt of my ancestors or noble-savaging the issue. I care because I grew up without toys that looked anything like me. It matters.
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(to ismene) :wow:
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''Baddy eyes'' are completely different from skin tones. One is an emotional expression; the other a more-or-less permanent characteristic. Playmobil has acknowledged the merits of the Toy Like Me campaign; they also have to recognize the growing need for multiethnic toys.
I'm not carrying the guilt of my ancestors or noble-savaging the issue. I care because I grew up without toys that looked anything like me. It matters.
it mattered to you, and ok, but don't generalise.
when i was 8 i didn't want my toys to look like me ... i wanted them to look like He Man! and so did millions of other kids my age :P
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I'm not generalizing. I'm saying there ought to be a good ethnic diversity, so kids have both klickies that look like them and klickies that do not.
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This whole discussion just shows why interchangeable accessories are better than pre-determined and overly printed figures. We wouldn't have this problem if you could take any figure and use them in any other theme. :)
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This whole discussion just shows why interchangeable accessories are better than pre-determined and overly printed figures. We wouldn't have this problem if you could take any figure and use them in any other theme. :)
if anything, it shows that pm is following the spirit of the times, where people demand more and more specific and particular themes and klickies.
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The first thing my daughter did when she got the 911 Porsche was to replace the male driver with a female one. And then she put a lot of children in the car and declared it to be the "kindergarten bus". :)
I love this ;D
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The real problem is that there's no ethnic diversity in the Asian Dragon theme.
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It's fitting there that they are all asian. Just like its fitting for a western european medieval style to have white clickies. Though they could go with a faction that has slightly tanned clickies, with their style representing Spain or Italy.
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Hey ... are you saying all asians look the same? cause if you are, im sure there are asians who would object to such a statement (im not even joking on this one!). Im sure for example there are Japanese people who would object to being lumped together with sun-tanned, dark-skinned (or whatever) Chinese.
Goes on to show what a minefield this sort of thing is once you start thinking along these lines.
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The real problem is that there's no ethnic diversity in the Asian Dragon theme.
And exactly why would there need to be diversity in historical Asia?
Goes on to show what a minefield this sort of thing is once you start thinking along these lines.
For some people, but not all
Having ethnic diversity is not that hard, what seems to be hard is showing respect for diffrences
It starts early, white = good.....dark =bad , this seems to be reinforced in playmobil quite often.
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And exactly why would there need to be diversity in historical Asia?
:lol: - This was the best thing I've seen all day. Can everyone please leave the very accurate and historical magic Asian fantasy ninja dragon theme alone... it's PERFECT ;)
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you carry the guilt of your grandfathers baron, famous dragon slayers
actually - grandmothers, for i am speaking of bad people.
to ask for no diversity in asian dragons' colors is absurd.
the problem here is patterns - everybody knows asian dragons had a multitude of them: stripes, dots, etc.
to portray only "plain" dragons is an enormous error playmobil should avoid.
and please, do not correct me anyone - i have a blond noble savage as a kid - making me an expert in this field.
i had to have one to when i knew the germans (who are all blond and noble, as we know) were not doing their part in filling our world with the right colored children - http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/23/business/worldbusiness/23toy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
and rasputin (if i remember well some pictures of his sons he posted) also went this way.
ahead of his time, a visionary.
ae least, for the time being, we have playmobil covering our backs - launching 2.7 light pink klickies every second (85% of 3.2). ;)
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The real problem is that there's no ethnic diversity in the Asian Dragon theme.
:lol:
To me, if a child is being raised to be truly color blind, as they should be, then it isn't a matter of having klickies that look like themselves, but rather of realistic diversity. I grew up having friends of more than one race, and as a child, I was naturally drawn to dolls and toys of all colors. I am white, but one of my favorite baby dolls as a small child was black. Her name was Penelope. I didn't love her because she was black, or in spite of her being black, it was more like the race just didn't matter at all to me, because I hadn't been taught it was important. I also had black Barbies, mostly because I picked them based on the outfit they were wearing, and the race wasn't a factor. Isn't that how it should be? If you teach children they should pick out toys with the same race as themselves, you are teaching them that races should not intermingle, or that they are so different from people of another race they can't possibly be friends with them. Because the dolls are rarely supposed to BE the child in the child's mind. They don't name their dolls or klickys their own name.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/23/business/worldbusiness/23toy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Thanks for the link. Interesting. Especially these two paragraphs:
Still, Ms. Schauer, who remembers being one of the first girls in her class to own a Barbie doll, is very careful about not messing with Playmobil's image. This is a company that makes firefighters, construction workers and Roman gladiators — not flaxen-haired fairy-tale nymphs.
"We don't want to pretend to be something we're not," she said, in a dig at the impossibly proportioned Barbie.
I wish they'd remember that last sentence ::)
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Still, Ms. Schauer, who remembers being one of the first girls in her class to own a Barbie doll, is very careful about not messing with Playmobil's image. This is a company that makes firefighters, construction workers and Roman gladiators — not flaxen-haired fairy-tale nymphs.
Unfortunately, that was in 2006. In June 2015 I spot four of those blonde & pink 'princesses' on this page of the webshop alone:
http://www.playmobil.be/on/demandware.store/Sites-BE-Site/nl_BE/Search-Show?cgid=Maerchenschloss (http://www.playmobil.be/on/demandware.store/Sites-BE-Site/nl_BE/Search-Show?cgid=Maerchenschloss)
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:) from some time now, i think that geobra wants playmobil to be "everything".
hans beck days with solemn declarations of no noise, no violence, etc. are long gone.
maybe we'll see the launch of a playmo-chimaera, half dragon, half barbie, with sirens and loudspakers with screams and songs attached to its left, and with a lot of weapons mixed with small children figures attached to its right.
will it sell?
maybe the real question is - do you want it to sell / do you want to sell it?
maybe geobra is not aware of what they sometimes do - i don't know.
they are capable of such amazing an beautiful designs that such mistakes are difficult to accept.
the idea to ask them to be a part in u. n. global compact the i posted in another thread - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=14755.0 - could be a way to forget all excuses and reinforce attention.
to grow up, as rasputin brilliantly said.
when you declare you share some principals - https://www.unglobalcompact.org/AboutTheGC/TheTenPrinciples/humanRights.html - maybe you'll actually do an effort not to forget them. :)
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Unfortunately, that was in 2006. In June 2015 I spot four of those blonde & pink 'princesses' on this page of the webshop alone
Now that Beck and Brandstaetter are both gone, I think PM is heading for an identity crisis of the sort L*go faced some years ago. Fairies and Super 4 is just the beginning.
I also had black Barbies, mostly because I picked them based on the outfit they were wearing, and the race wasn't a factor. Isn't that how it should be? If you teach children they should pick out toys with the same race as themselves, you are teaching them that races should not intermingle, or that they are so different from people of another race they can't possibly be friends with them. Because the dolls are rarely supposed to BE the child in the child's mind.
To wax quite serious for a moment: not entirely. I live in the USA, which as everyone knows has racial problems. It is often argued by African Americans that there should be more black representation in various areas precisely because they want black people to have images that resemble them. Here's just one example (http://hellobeautiful.com/2012/12/12/survey-says-black-parents-want-toys-to-represent-their-kids-infographic/). I could pile up many more. In fact here's one (http://sourcesara.blogspot.com/2010/08/playmobil-privilege.html) in which the white mother of a mixed race child writes that Playmobil's white figures make her "sick to her stomach".
The fact is that not everyone in this country is in agreement about what the future should look like. Some people, favour the MLK vision of a colorblind society that you describe. Others are moving in a more separatist direction.
So it's complicated.
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:!: a good way to remember good things could be:
a special release thomas jefferson klicky to comemorate the 240 years of the (north, excluding canada and mexico+ if you consider mexico to be north and not central) american declaration of independence.
the one that states:
"we hold these truths to be evident, that all men are created equal..."
a little bit like playmofriends guidelines:
"welcoming of all races, religions, sexual orientations/identities, and cultures..."
i know that jefferson's declaration continues with "that they are endowed by their creator..." wich leaves a certain here-we-go-again feeling in atheists or poliheists or agnostic people.
and i also know that mr. jefferson had some contraditions (to say the least) between what he wrote and how he behaved regarding slavery.
the difference is that he is dead and can do nothing about it (including defending himself) and we are still alive and can.
if we want to.
and the klicky could turn out great
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on second thoughts, a chimera wouldn't be a very bad figure to add to the medieval theme.
ate least it could be a not-another-light-pink-skin-color klicky. :)
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:lol:
To me, if a child is being raised to be truly color blind, as they should be, then it isn't a matter of having klickies that look like themselves, but rather of realistic diversity. I grew up having friends of more than one race, and as a child, I was naturally drawn to dolls and toys of all colors. I am white, but one of my favorite baby dolls as a small child was black. Her name was Penelope. I didn't love her because she was black, or in spite of her being black, it was more like the race just didn't matter at all to me, because I hadn't been taught it was important. I also had black Barbies, mostly because I picked them based on the outfit they were wearing, and the race wasn't a factor. Isn't that how it should be? If you teach children they should pick out toys with the same race as themselves, you are teaching them that races should not intermingle, or that they are so different from people of another race they can't possibly be friends with them. Because the dolls are rarely supposed to BE the child in the child's mind. They don't name their dolls or klickys their own name.
I agree, but before children can embrace toys of all ethnicities, that diversity must exist in toys. If they are constantly presented one image of humanity, it makes them aware of race and desperate to find an image that looks like themselves. This is particularly dangerous in toys that represent ideal beauty (in Playmobil - princesses, brides, fairies - we've had so many fairies in the mystery figures and they're all white).
Growing up, the one baby doll I cared for at all was the one and only brunette. She was incredibly pale, but all my other baby dolls, all my Barbies (save one knock-off Skipper that was African American), my porcelain doll, the evil battery operated almost life-sized doll, the large rag doll, the girl on one of my sweaters, and even the stupid fairy on my bedspread were blonde, blue-eyed, and pale skinned - most wore pink. They were gifts from well-meaning, probably race-blind people (my parents didn't have the money to buy us much). Playmobil was the most diverse - they actually had different hair colors.
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:!: a good way to remember good things could be:
a special release thomas jefferson klicky to comemorate the 240 years of the (north, excluding canada and mexico+ if you consider mexico to be north and not central) american declaration of independence.
the one that states:
"we hold these truths to be evident, that all men are created equal..."
a little bit like playmofriends guidelines:
"welcoming of all races, religions, sexual orientations/identities, and cultures..."
i know that jefferson's declaration continues with "that they are endowed by their creator..." wich leaves a certain here-we-go-again feeling in atheists or poliheists or agnostic people.
and i also know that mr. jefferson had some contraditions (to say the least) between what he wrote and how he behaved regarding slavery.
the difference is that he is dead and can do nothing about it (including defending himself) and we are still alive and can.
if we want to.
and the klicky could turn out great
That's one gorgeous purple coat.
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This is particularly dangerous in toys that represent ideal beauty (in Playmobil - princesses, brides, fairies - we've had so many fairies in the mystery figures and they're all white).
All white - and most pink too! (exception for the orange lady, which is why she stands out, me thinks).
Actually, the last figures-girls didn't only had one of that new silly darker white, right? the bellydancer? Not a single black or indian one...
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It is true it would be nice to see sets where the "main people" are black. Like in that article bolingbroke linked, say a camper set or even house where the family was black. Rather than just one black student in a school, or one black police officer.
I'll tell this and then shut up. :lol: My little niece-in-law that I babysit sometimes was born in the US but both her parents are from Mexico, so culturally the family is Mexican. In Mexico, there are not defined races as there are here. There is a wide variety of skin tones, but they have no special meaning to anyone. I have noticed when playing playmobil with this little girl, she quite innocently puts families together without any regard whatsoever for the skin colors. The mom and dad may both be white, and one of the kids black. I just think it's rather beautiful to see that the color doesn't matter to her and she doesn't even notice it. Give her another year or two in US schools and I'm sure that will all change. Kind of sad.
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in a way you have to respect japanese toy companies like bandai. they know their main market is the local one, they cater for it almost exclusively, and if foreigners like and buy their toys, good, if they don't, then they can lump it. it's a very japanese attitude that you have to respect, in this day and age of global multinational companies trying to be everything to everyone.
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:!: a good way to remember good things could be:
a special release thomas jefferson klicky to comemorate the 240 years of the (north, excluding canada and mexico+ if you consider mexico to be north and not central) american declaration of independence.
the one that states:
"we hold these truths to be evident, that all men are created equal..."
I personally would love a Thomas Jefferson klicky, or any historical klicky really. However, although from Portugal he might look like a hero of equality, things are different in the USA, as bonniebeth points out. If PM released a TJ klicky here as part of a celebration of equality, I guarantee they would receive vociferous criticism for their decision. People would point out that he was a slaveowner, that he was hypocritical in publicly opposing slavery while hardly freeing any of his slaves, that he stole Indian land, that he ordered forced removals of Indians, and that he assisted in the creation of a white supremacist society. They would demand he not be promoted as a symbol of equality. Other candidates would be suggested. (A Frederick Douglass klicky would be fantastic!)
This is how things are now. There are a lot of hot feelings in this country and it's going to take more than a handful of German toys to fix them.
in a way you have to respect japanese toy companies like bandai. they know their main market is the local one, they cater for it almost exclusively, and if foreigners like and buy their toys, good, if they don't, then they can lump it. it's a very japanese attitude that you have to respect, in this day and age of global multinational companies trying to be everything to everyone.
And there are many non-Japanese who seek out Japanese toys, as well as many other Japanese cultural products, precisely because of their strong cultural flavour. It's not something to be ashamed of or try to escape from.
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I'll tell this and then shut up. :lol: My little niece-in-law that I babysit sometimes was born in the US but both her parents are from Mexico, so culturally the family is Mexican. In Mexico, there are not defined races as there are here. There is a wide variety of skin tones, but they have no special meaning to anyone. I have noticed when playing playmobil with this little girl, she quite innocently puts families together without any regard whatsoever for the skin colors. The mom and dad may both be white, and one of the kids black. I just think it's rather beautiful to see that the color doesn't matter to her and she doesn't even notice it. Give her another year or two in US schools and I'm sure that will all change. Kind of sad.
eh, but that's the problem, isn't it? cultural clashes, different perspectives and sometimes (in the case of the furore over the crosses in tge alpine sets, for examole) ignorant and ill-informed opinions from people who are completely alien to the European traditions which are at the heart of playmobil.
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i am sorry but i tend to see the european philosophical tradition as the most important one. ;)
from thales of miletus to wittgenstain, it is a tradition that has more than 2500 years.
i don't quite see it as being in the "heart" of playmobil.
:love: playmobil is a wonderful toy and we all love it.
could it be better? i have no doubt.
by being smarter.
by fighting joyful ignorance - another european tradition (the ugly one).
i will also shut up now (i know, i know...)
this thread is easily flammable and shouldn't be in the news section. :)
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me too :P
till the next one, probably calling for the crosses on the crusader kkickies to be removed lest they annoy non-christians :P
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I agree that they could go more with black families, maybe not with the main house or such but could always be in sets like a man or woman with their children.
Have to disagree about other races being potrayed badly though, I'm pretty sure that white clickies have been used as villains more often than other colors due to there being more white clickies in general.
The evil knight factions are always white, the evil dragonland faction was white, not sure if theres truly an evil asian dragonland faction even, seems more neutral there.
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just make a Luther Klicky and get it over with. No not the Luther they made but the one I really thought it was when they announced it at the pcc, Matin Luther King Jr. I personally prefer a Malcom X klicky but like Jefferson he is quite controversial, or how about a Rosa Parks set, classic school bus in new color,bus driver, Rosa, and some white cops with German Shepard? These could all fit into the US 50's theme. ;)
Maybe some day the same company that brought us the rollercoaster (once enough time has lapsed) they could entertain us with a Japanese kamikaze playmo set, for the glory of culture :P
Geobra would be walking a mind field 8}
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just make a Luther Klicky and get it over with. No not the Luther they made but the one I really thought it was when they announced it at the pcc, Matin Luther King Jr. I personally prefer a Malcom X klicky but like Jefferson he is quite controversial, or how about a Rosa Parks set, classic school bus in new color,bus driver, Rosa, and some white cops with German Shepard? These could all fit into the US 50's theme. ;)
Don't forget the firehoses! (JOKING)
Geobra would be walking a mind field 8}
That's the thing. It's nice to think that they should fight ignorance as cachalote wishes them to, but the reality is that when they DO do even slightly odd sets, they get lambasted (http://www.blogher.com/frame.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Floveisntenough.com%2F2010%2F10%2F25%2Fplaymobil-and-the-essential-nature-of-africans%2F&_back=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogher.com%2Fplaymobil-racist-not-if-you-are-willing-do-hard-work%3Ffrom%3Dcomments). (Remember Airport Security?) Even the seemingly harmless ethnic families are criticized for cultural insensitivity (http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/08/31/the-social-construction-of-race-by-playmobil/).
I think the best way is to be historically accurate with sets set in the past, and to roughly match current demographics with modern day sets. If/when Europe turns minority white, PM should naturally represent that in their klickies.
Anything else would be, as Rasputin rightly says, a mind field.
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Martin Luther King may be less recognizeable as a clicky though and may just be regarded as a black clicky in a nice suit. I'd still like to see him produced though since he would no doubt be the most praised and recogniseable black historical figure I am sure, maybe they could give him a lectrum with microphone so he can have his speech, that may help make him recognizeable too.
Martin Luther has his hat after all and his writ. The Nachtwacht soldiers have very recognizeable outfits. The Milkmaid has the same.
I do love the idea of getting historical clickies of other skincolors and other roles though.
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Shaka Zulu. Tamerlane. GENGHIS KHAN.
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Lapu Lapu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapu-Lapu
Harriet Tubman - She'd just need a 19th c. dress and a head scarf.
Sacagawea - in historically accurate clothes with baby
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simón bolivar and manuela sáenz ? :)
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pancho villa? :)
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lampião e maria bonita, the most famous couple of brazilian cangaceiros ? :)
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My goodness these are great ideas. I'm sorry but they HAVE to do a Simón Bolivar klicky.
Che Guevara could come later.
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what's the most recent (as in contemporary) historical figure they've ever done?
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Che Guevara may be too controversial.
I gues that unless its a person who children may know worldwide, it would be up to local museums and such to issue historic figures from Playmobil.
I'm quite glad that the Rijksmuseum here in the Netherlands seems to get a taste for it.
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:-\ yes, che guevara could be a little bit complicated.
a lot of people who see him as a "nice" revolucionary don't know what his responsabilities in the shooting and jailing of thousands of people in cuba.
it would be o.k., i guess, if it was the cuban government to ask for it and if it was sold only there.
... o.k, o.k, with the possibility of internet ordering. :)
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Yeah they do need to look out a bit for controversial stuff.
They have released quite a few sets like that of course, like southern soldiers, a dancing bear twice, hooded executioners twice, beer drinking construction workers, and such.
And still somehow a simple airport security checkpoint is seen as most controversial. I've yet to see a list of inappropriate playmobil sets feature the dancing bear.
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And still somehow a simple airport security checkpoint is seen as most controversial. I've yet to see a list of inappropriate playmobil sets feature the dancing bear.
And that dreadful old "noah's ark". In something aimed at children.. beyond words.
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what was wrong with that?
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what was wrong with that?
its religious propaganda and just like political propaganda or in this case ethnic propaganda the balance could/should be done to reflect the real world. If it was done in an actual educational manner (as Geobra claims their toys are) then they need to include all (Ok yes maybe not all but the big ones at least) points of view. Just pushing one religion/ethnicity/cult then its an agenda.
I would welcome teaching my kids and grandkids all about the diffrent religions that exist or existed and throw in some LGBT sets also :confetti:
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its religious propaganda (...)
Exactly. There are others, but that one, considering the dreadful booklet, makes me... I don't even know.
(yes, I know the other sets also have propaganda booklets, but maybe the story is not as violent)
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you guys should relax a bit, you know ::) :P
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you guys should relax a bit, you know ::) :P
Yep, I know 8} :P ;D
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Hold on folks, here comes a rant.
All cultures are agendas, in that they aim to replicate themselves. Training the young is how they do this. Europe has been Christian for over a millennium, so for a European company to create toys with Christian imagery, or depicting one specific, European culture (Victorian theme for example), is only natural, and not "propaganda", except in the most debased, useless sense of that term.
More importantly, the notion that a completely culture-free viewpoint is desireable or even attainable IS ITSELF A CULTURAL VIEWPOINT. It is one of the defining ideas of modern Western culture. To promote THAT view is more subtly propagandistic, more white-man's-burdeny, than simply selling an honest Noah's Ark toy, one that many Christians probably bought for their children in an effort to honestly transmit their culture. (Full disclosure: I am not Christian. More a sort of lackadaisical Buddhist. Yes I almost bought the girl on lotus set for the lotus.)
In fact if you think about it for even a second the original PM toys themselves were intensely culture-bound. They manifested a version of modern European culture that we can still recognize in media products of the time: stylized, modular, interchangeable, smooth clean surfaces....(This effort to escape culture might be one of the lingering effects of the war, btw. Bolingbroke is onto something when he points out white guilt.)
Finally, to say that all points of view should be represented while condemning one of those points of view is utterly incoherent. It makes NO SENSE to criticize portrayals of reality (there really are crosses on top of mountains in the German Kulturraum!) on the basis that they are slanted towards one view. ALL PORTRAYALS OF REALITY ARE SLANTED. WE ARE JUST FANCY MONKEYS AND ALWAYS OPERATE FROM ONE PERSPECTIVE OR ANOTHER.
If you really wanted cultural diversity, you would praise the Ark and the Nativities and use them as support for your claim that there should be e.g. a Battle of Karbala set, or a Mahaparinirvana (Buddha's death) set.
I ask again: would you demand that a Nigerian or Korean toy company include all cultural points of view, or strive to be "culture-free"? Why or why not? Answers on the back of a postcard please.
what's the most recent (as in contemporary) historical figure they've ever done?
Are there any more recent than Martin Luther? There was Saint Martin, Cleopatra...some more contemporary media characters such as Lara Croft...can't think of any others.
edit: Elvis and Lady Gaga!
beer drinking construction workers
I thought that had been shown to be bottled water. In Germany green glass is used for water while brown glass is used for beer, and the bottles in that set are green.
On that note, I've strangely never seen criticism of the conquistador figure (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4742), even though the conquistadors wrought pure hell upon the indigenous peoples of the Americas. There's even a bar a few blocks from me called The Conquistador (http://portland.thedrinknation.com/bars/profile/1965-Conquistador-The) that has never to my knowledge been criticized for its choice of name.
edit: Martin not Christopher, duh
edit2: Elvis etc
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come on mcruran, you don't need to be so actively anti-anti. ;)
i don't criticize noah's ark that much.
although i am sure that if there was some kind of anti-bible activity in the world by some remote militant semi-armed organization geobra would run to take it out of the shelves, denying they were doing it.
growing up is what is needed.
and growing up means MORE markets, more diversity in themes (in space and time) and skin-colors and hair-styles and etc...
MORE being the key-word here - not right and wrong.
just as long as i have hope on the release of an imperial flagship i really don't care that much how many more tacky white churches with tacky light-pink-skin-colored newly-weds playmobil makes.
it makes me sad that they are not smart enough to make a sinagogue or a mosque - they would sell more and would have more money to produce more sets.
it makes me even sadder that i don't have at least a female brown skin piratesse to join my crews.
i bet she would be lovely.
or a conquistadoresse.
by the way, maybe the native people of south america did just fine killing each other before the arrival of pizarro or cortés (wouldn't it make a great set cortés and his mestiza wife la malinche?)
instead of just one perspective (or just one anti-perspective) what we need is MORE.
MORE klickies. :)
p.s. "more" meaning more different ones, not more of the same, of course
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I kind of find the idea of turning a world destruction event into a child friendly toy hilarious. Plus it's a boat full of animals.
However, if Noah and his family are the ancestors of everyone shouldn't they be a more middle-of-the-road skintone?
Same with Mary and Joseph. They're Jewish.
I'm for Playmo synagogues and Japanese temples. I'm not sure how Muslims would feel about Islamic sets (Religious figures are off limits, as far as I know, but maybe buildings would be okay).
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Would it be okay if the mosque was as tacky as the church?
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Workers still drink beer on the job in continental Europe ... I see them often enough in Belgium. The reason there wasn't an uproar at the time that set came out, or when the one with the tramp and the police officer came out, or when the dancing bear set came out (unlike when the airport security set was released, for example) was that there was no internet to give a voice to the enlightened ::) :P
Nowadays you'd get animal rights activists, homeless people activists, the anti alcohol groups and other assorted busybodies reaching for their touchscreens/pads the moment such sets were unveiled.
God, how I miss those days.
As for suggestions like the Rosa Parks figure ... it would make as much sense as releasing a ... I don't know, a Bobby Sands figure in America: zero business sense. Might come as a shock to Americans, but most people outside the US have never heard of Rosa Parks.
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On that note, I've strangely never seen criticism of the conquistador figure (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4742), even though the conquistadors wrought pure hell upon the indigenous peoples of the Americas. There's even a bar a few blocks from me called The Conquistador (http://portland.thedrinknation.com/bars/profile/1965-Conquistador-The) that has never to my knowledge been criticized for its choice of name.
edit: Martin not Christopher, duh
edit2: Elvis etc
That's probably because the Spanish don't do 'guilt' very well.
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:) i think you are wrong about the spanish bolingbroke.
they feel proud, not guilty.
like us, the portuguese.
in both countries our conquistadores are seen as heros and their faces (or what could be how their faces looked like) deserve to be in bank notes.
cortés and pizarro in spanish pesetas.
d. henrique (10.000) vasco da gama (5.000) bartolomeu dias (2.000) pedro álvares cabral (1000) and joão de barros (500) in portuguese escudos.
??? i can see no reason for someone to think that people from both nations carry some sort of guilt historic guilt or shame caused by the adventures of these sailors.
:) i, for one, carry none.
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As for suggestions like the Rosa Parks figure ... it would make as much sense as releasing a ... I don't know, a Bobby Sands figure in America: zero business sense. Might come as a shock to Americans, but most people outside the US have never heard of Rosa Parks.
I think the Luther and Rijksmuseum figures show the way forward: go local and specific. Make a Rosa Parks figure for a museum in Atlanta (or whatever city it was), just make sure people anywhere can order one.
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yeah, agreed.
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Pretty much that yes.
For playmobil to produce anything, they must think theres a market for it.
With most countries Playmobil is distributed to being christian, it makes sense to work that religion more into it where appropriate.
Noah's Arc is to children simply a big boat with many animals, it is a popular object to translate to toys not just by Playmobil. Many toy companies have produced it. Same for nativity scenes. Thats also something very familiar.
Crusaders and churches also make sense, though I do think they have been wise to release Templars more loosely rather than having a crusades theme. That would cause way too much trouble.
I would still love to see a middle eastern medieval theme though, seperate from the crusades. We can always combine the two ourselves.
If they'd make an indian theme I am sure Hinduism would come into play.
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:) small "complementary" sets for each theme to begin with would be a good way to go.
in the "near" markets i bet everyone would want th have them, specially the collectors.
in the "far" they could be looked as an experience to know how they would react.
in the future, the "complementary" would no longer be apart from the "main" sets.
:) and playmobil, finally, would go "mestizo".
a bunch of berbers to attack or be attacked by romans (a lot of pieces from the safari and egyptian them can be recycled).
a bunch of huns to do the same thing (again, it's so easy to make them with exhisting parts).
an arab army to attack or be attacked by medieval crusaders (again, easy to do).
a mongol army coming form the east to slay or be slayed by european knights.
a lot of "indians" from south america to the pacific to help or oppose the pirates.
even if they would start to be outnumbered by the "main" figures, some children would love them more, for being "special" and "rare" (it's called the david/goliath effect)
and none of male klickies would be misogynist, and none of female klickies would be misandrist.
and, if let alone at night, when children go to bed, they would wildly proliferate creating new babys and children klickies all by themselves.
i think it's called "nanotechnology". :)
p.s. maybe this movement could be called the north-south-east-west theme and maybe we should consider it when asking for new ds sets.
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there's something you're forgetting guys. how much would a german toy like pm cost in another continent? it's more expensive in america, we know, but at least there people can for the most part afford it. but what about other countries? can the average indian afford an imported quality toynfor his children, for example? the average egyptian?
ive travelled a bit, ive seen lego for sale at x4 the normal price in places like for eg lebanon.
sweet as the thought is, i can't imagine thousands of third world households affording imported toys like playmobil.
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there's something you're forgetting guys. how much would a german toy like pm cost in another continent? it's more expensive in america, we know, but at least there people can for the most part afford it. but what about other countries? can the average indian afford an imported quality toynfor his children, for example? the average egyptian?
ive travelled a bit, ive seen lego for sale at x4 the normal price in places like for eg lebanon.
sweet as the thought is, i can't imagine thousands of third world households affording imported toys like playmobil.
Give it a few months, it may just become way more affordable to the rest of the world. I know I am patiently waiting for the euro to drop, capitalism at its best 8}
I too am not petitioning for geobra to stop with the Christian sets, just give the alternatives also so we can teach our kids that the world is a big place with many ideas.
Constantly repeating jolly old fat man Christmas is a bore. Can we add to our collections for diversity?
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Hi
The church theme with the Wedding didn't sell well in Germany
It was a Flop
Take your conclusions
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Hi
The church theme with the Wedding didn't sell well in Germany
It was a Flop
Take your conclusions
My read of that is that it was too deracinated. There wasn't even a cross in it anywhere. I think cultural sets should be more accurate, not less.
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but what about other countries? can the average indian afford an imported quality toy for his children, for example? the average egyptian?
no need to have higher prices.
http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=14781.0
stage 1 - build a factory somewhere on E asia.
if not in a country that really understands what human rights are, at least with a control over the factory that makes it a model of good wages, no child labour, "normal" working hours, etc..
stage 2 - start selling in the countries where income is as high as the european union (prices should not be higher).
stage 3 - make money.
stage 4 - wait a few years until indonesia, india, the phillipines, etc., have higher incomes.
(meanwhile, keep trying these markets with smaller sets).
stage 5 - sell everywhere and make more money.
stage 6 - with all this money, hire a decent office of designers instead of keeping the same "regional" ones (too amateur to deal with such a big market).
stage 7 - launch a gigantic open internet design platform so that everyone can propose a new set (hire sir pleamo for this).
stage 8 - world domination.
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That's the conquistador in you talking.
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1) er ... that's not how toy companies work. why do you think playmobil opened a factory in malta in the 70s? and why is lego moving to china with some of its stuff? hasbro, mattel? they already have factories in east asia, and yet their toys are still expensive (he man action figures, made in china ... 28 bucks!).
2) playmobil has been doing that for almost 50 years
3) i presume they did
4) what happens is once wages start increasing (and with that, costs), the company moves elsewhere. mattel used to produce he man figures in portugal, spain etc in the 80s ...
5) dont you think someone at hasbro etc has thought about that already? see above
6 etc) no, no and no ...
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Please keep in mind you are talking about a company that doesn't even SHIP to most countries in the world. A company that has a glitch for YEARS preventing online purchases on the iberian site, and doesn't give a darn.
I know it sounds like a joke, but they really don't want money. Especially foreign money.
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My read of that is that it was too deracinated. There wasn't even a cross in it anywhere. I think cultural sets should be more accurate, not less.
I think it would have sold better if it were an old style church. It was a bland modern wedding chapel.
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:) yes they do tahra, believe me they do.
;D maybe they have som trouble asking for it in other lamguages.
;) ... and bollingbroke, i have to admire your assertiveness - it's not often we get to meet a playmofriend so sure of his opinions, regardless of 1 or 2 major gaffes (like the spanish / guilt subject).
... and the way your analysis can go so deep - "no, no and no" is so beautiful in its simplicity - makes me very much envy you.
p.s. a quick reading of the member guidelines sometimes helps me to relax, socialize and enjoy - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=12832.0 and
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:) yes they do tahra, believe me they do.
No, they don't.
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at least iberia has pm official sites. malta doesn't.
re your points, cachalote, im backing my claims from experience collecting toys in general. but not only toys ... i mean, im typing this on a 500 euro made in china ipad! since when has a company lowered its prices for the consumers due to a move to a third world country ??? Can you cite at least one example?
the only one profiting from such moves is the company itself, in most cases. (and i say most because i don't want you to think im being so categorical all the time :P)
now, if you have examples, share them with us :)
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I think it would have sold better if it were an old style church. It was a bland modern wedding chapel.
Excellent point. In fact why haven't they done a medieval church? Next to the castle the church was the most important building in medieval towns. We have a bakery but no church!
On the Spanish guilt thing, speaking as a native speaker of English, it looked to me like both of you were saying exactly the same thing: that Spaniards don't feel guilty about things. So you agree on that.
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i don't know, i can't tell if he's being sarcastic or not :) anyway, you mentioned white man's guilt too, a valid point but which people refuse to acknowledge.
i wasn't flaming anyone, and apologise if it came across that way. it's just that different people are touchy about different things. earlier on i made the point about implying that all asians look the same, even skin-wise, as bordering on the racist, for example,mbut nobody picked that up vis a vis the forum regulations. people are so touchy in here, man.
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I have heard it being said from people of all races though, I believe there are also people who think all white people look the same.
But when it comes to clickies, they naturally will all kind of look the same regardless of what race they are, setting themselves apart by their clothes, hairstyles, facial hair or make up.
White people guilt does seem to be a thing yes, and I do feel that there may also be people who try to exploit that to try and get their way.
Overplaying the victim card so to speak.
And this can lead to "the boy who cried wolf" scenarios.
If someone accuses everyone of racism for the slightest of things like for example someone prefering a partner of their own race, they may be ignored by the point they run into a case of genuine racism that should be adressed. They wouldnt be taken seriously anymore.
As for implied slavery in toys and other media, I feel that such organisations would better spend their time doing something about the slavery that actually still exists in the world rather than the slavery that has been abolished long enough for no one to be alive anymore to have lived through it.
Its a terrible past yes, which was not limited to black people in america, but currently efforts are best put into preventing women from being sold into prostitution and forced child labour and such. Slavery still is a thing that happens in the world, and I feel it is often ignored in favor of looking to the past to accuse people of crimes their ancestors commited.
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Excellent point. In fact why haven't they done a medieval church? Next to the castle the church was the most important building in medieval towns. We have a bakery but no church!
On the Spanish guilt thing, speaking as a native speaker of English, it looked to me like both of you were saying exactly the same thing: that Spaniards don't feel guilty about things. So you agree on that.
Plus a medieval church would fit into Victorian and modern settings. There are plenty of old churches still around today. I want the church, even if it's a bit bland, but I can't justify it when it doesn't fit in with my other buildings (Victorian).
''White man's guilt'' is a thing, but not all white people feel it. I find in general white Americans (or rather a sector of them) feel it the most. I don't. I haven't heard of any of my ancestors being involved in slavery or evicting Native Americans, and that line (the one that was in America that far back) of the family tree is well-researched. And my lineage is too diverse for me to really have a ''race''.
The ''all Asians looking the same'' thing annoys me, but I expect it and at the moment, getting more Asian representation in Playmobil is a bigger issue.
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Personly I can't say I feel white guilt either. I'm Dutch though, and the Netherlands did not own slaves but instead sold them to America. That is not to say thats not equally horrible, but it was a very small percentage of Dutchmen who actually had any involvement in it so chances of my ancestors having a hand in it are quite slim.
But chances are some of my ancestors where bad people. but the same can be said about everyone. You can bet on it that somewhere in your long line of ancestors there have been murderers, slavers, thieves, cheaters, pirates, etc.
And when looking at things on a national scale, should I somehow hold a grudge against Germans, English, French, Spanish, Italian and possibly more nations because of past grievances?
I'm just not one to hold grudges often. I mean there was a kid who I despised in school, he was a real jerk but years later I met him again and we where able to have a normal conversation for the first time, he really changed and became a family man.
I do hold a grudge against an elementary school teacher though. She was one to play favorites and she didnt like me. Turned my desk upside down multible times for slight things, and I really wasnt much of a troublemaker in school. Also pulled me out of class by my arm once to toss me on the floor there.
Recently saw that woman again in the supermarket, trying to make normal chit chat, asking how my parents are and such and seemingly ignoring anything that happened, clearly not sorry about it or even remembering it. Terrible person.
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at the moment, getting more dragon-free Asian representation in Playmobil is a bigger issue.
ftfy
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(Some) Europeans have the "white man's guilt" thing too. Many European countries have had African and/or Asian colonies and a history of violence, slave trade etc. It's everywhere in our semi-recent history.
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ftfy
Lol, yeah, I try to pretend that theme doesn't exist. If they want to add dragons, fine, but at least start with something vaguely historical so we get some good parts.
Rhalius, true, in everyone's lineage there are going to be criminals and bad people, and it is oversimplified to place blame on a whole country or ''race''. Most African Americans have white ancestors. The descendants of those conquered by the conquistadors have Spanish blood. While one part of my family was driven from their home by the Japanese and Koreans, the US (where another part of my family lived) was taking Japanese (and those they thought were Japanese) immigrants from their homes and putting them in camps.
We (and particularly a large company) need to be aware of which stereotypes we perpetuate. But the burden of guilt or grudges from our long and diverse ancestries is too much to bear.
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I have playmo buyers guilt, guilt I did not buy more sets that got discontinued :'(
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Well said Ismene.
Best to give it some thought and try to avoid needless controversy, but at the same time not let a minority of overly sensitive people decide on what they release.
So with all things said and done, they are doing pretty well. Especially compared to most toy companies who release the occasional token black figure or token asian figure. Playmobil has much more than that, they just need to actively look at putting them in roles they did not have yet but which do make sense.
Like asian cops, black women as pirates, cops or any action role, etc. But seriously, black women need some love from Playmobil.
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Well said Ismene.
Best to give it some thought and try to avoid needless controversy, but at the same time not let a minority of overly sensitive people decide on what they release.
So with all things said and done, they are doing pretty well. Especially compared to most toy companies who release the occasional token black figure or token asian figure. Playmobil has much more than that, they just need to actively look at putting them in roles they did not have yet but which do make sense.
Like asian cops, black women as pirates, cops or any action role, etc. But seriously, black women need some love from Playmobil.
Geobra loves catering to what you call "a minority of overly sensitive people" especially if you look at the building system and the pcc in general.
With the amount of klickies out there geobra is precisely doing the "token ethnic" ratio. What there Are almost 3 billion klickies?
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http://www.playmobil.us/START_SRI_LANKA09.html
maybe they should start considering the use of other brands to fully help...
http://education.lego.com/en-us/products ? ;)
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http://www.playmobil.us/START_SRI_LANKA09.html
maybe they should start considering the use of other brands to fully help...
http://education.lego.com/en-us/products ? ;)
Seems Lego is light years ahead sometimes.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/04/08/the-worlds-most-reputable-companies/
" plus The company promotes Lego construction as an adult hobby"
Big long winded sigh...........
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sometimes?
most times, more like. esp the attentioj ot gives to adult collectors. :P
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It would be funny for geobra to replace all klickies on the playmo-UK site with darker skin toned klickies. :P