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General => Trains! => Topic started by: tahra on September 10, 2018, 14:12:54

Title: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 10, 2018, 14:12:54
I know nothing of these..

My trains have been boxed forever.. Since apparently the train stuff is on the way out, I decided to see what things I needed...

Besides finding out I have too many curved tracks and too few straight ones, of the 3 trains only one works.

I have the Nostalgie (4017 - bought new), ICE (4016 - used) and Xmas (4035 - used)...

The Xmas train brought 2 batteries, but they look like they leaked, so... Will need a replacement. I charged the other 2, and got batteries for the remotes..

Only the ICE "loco" works, though I need to push the battery in (used a rubberband) - any idea of a fix? 

All the remotes and quartz work too... But the other two locos don't do ANYTHING.  I can't even see the antenna on the Xmas one (I would assume we tried it when bought, but can't really be 100% sure  :-[ )

Any ideas?

Apparently the "rc motor block" is no longer available for purchase :(  Though the batteries are (needed one for the xmas train - IF it moves, no point in getting a battery if the loco is dead, right? )

Are the latest RC trains even compatible with these older ones? I mean, could the motor block be the same?

Apologies for the dumb questions... I really didn't expect the Nostalgie one to be dead, since it was bought new and nothing ever happened to it :(

I suppose it really doesn't matter for a dio, but I think these are the exception - I love to play with them moving..  :-[
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Junker Jörg on September 10, 2018, 14:34:26
Hai!

Hilfe ist unterwegs - help's on its way!

Nachdem die Startsets immer mehr Kurven als Gerade haben, ist das Gleisproblem nicht ungewöhnlich. Im Zweifelsfall kannst Du alle Gleise entsorgen und Dir passende von LGB oder PIKO kaufen (was recht teuer ist) oder im Netz nach Geraden suchen.
As starter sets always provide more curved than straight tracks that's a common problem. Either sell those plastic tracks an purchase LGB or PIKO tracks instead (expensive) or look for straight tracks in the www.

Wenn eine Funklok nicht fährt, kann das verschiedene Gründe haben. Prüfe der Reihe nach...
(a) Strom in der Steuerung: lege eine sicher volle Batterie ein => die Lampe muß leuchten.
(b) Richtiger Quarz: Wenn Du einen Quarzsatz hast, der sicher zueienander paßt, dann nimm den für jede Lok. Dann kannst Du diesen Fehler auch ausschließen.
(c) Stromkontakt in der Lok: Stelle sicher, daß die Batterien alle voll sind und richtigrum im Kasten liegen. Putze die Kontakte im Einschub mit einem Q-Tip (o.ä.) sauber (die verdrecken gerne) und schiebe den Kasten ganz in den Einschub.
(d) Funkkontakt? Im Nahbereich geht das Ganze auch ohne Antenne an der Lok (drei bis vier Meter sind kein Problem ohne).

There're different reasons causing an rc engine to fail. Check as listed:
(a) Power supply for remote control - insert a new battery to be sure and check for red light (< no red light = no power)
(b) Matching quartzes => take a pair of quartzes you know to be working.
(c) Power supply for engine: make sure batteries are full and put in box in correct order. Clean metal contact strips inside power slot (they're likely to be soiled) and press power pack properly into its slot.
(d) Radio contact => system works within a few meters range even without aerial.



jj:
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: playmofire on September 10, 2018, 15:16:36
2016 or 2017, Playmobil found some motor blocks for the 4010 set and you could buy them for £34 or so. However, the price later went up to £100+.

I'm sure JJ will come up with answers for you.
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Junker Jörg on September 10, 2018, 15:24:31
Are the latest RC trains even compatible with these older ones? I mean, could the motor block be the same?

Playmobil hat zwei Serien der Funkoks produziert. Alle Deine Loks gehören zur "alten" Serie (zu der auch die orangene Diesellok und die rote Ellok mit den Doppeldrehgestellen gehört). Die neue, gelbe Diesellok, die Playmobil als letztes im Programm hatte, paßt weder von der Elektronik noch der Form des Motors zu den Teilen der ersten Serie.

Playmobil produced two different rc engine types. All engines you listed are "the old ones" (so are the orange diesel and red double bogie engine). The yellow shunting engine (the latest and last one issued) operates on a totally different basis. Neither electronics nor shape of motor and control match the others.

jj:
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Junker Jörg on September 10, 2018, 15:39:02
The Xmas train brought 2 batteries, but they look like they leaked, so... Will need a replacement. I charged the other 2, and got batteries for the remotes..

Wie genau meinst Du das? Von Playmobil gab's diese Batteriekästen in schwarz (erste Serie, wiederaufladbar) und grau (zweite Serie für vier AA-Zellen oder Akkus). Innerhalb eines grauen Kastens sollte man keine Akkus und Batterien mischen. Eigentlich sollte man immer nur gleiche Zellen in Serie hängen, da sonst schwächste Zelle die Leistung vorgibt und die anderen Zellen ausbremst.

I'm not entirely sure what your're talking about here. Playobil issued two kinds of "power boxes". The first, black ones to be recharged as one and the second, grey ones to be fit with four AA-cells or rechargable batteries. You shouldn't combine recharchable and non-recharchable batteries - and strictly spoken only batteries of one and the same kind and state of power should be used together as otherwise the weakes batterie sets the maximum power limiting down all the other, stronger ones.

jj:

P.S. If you don't understand what I'm talking about - sorry, but electrics are far from my usual English vocabulary so I'm far from sure if what I wrote represents what I intended to say...  :-[
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Junker Jörg on September 10, 2018, 15:43:58
Only the ICE "loco" works, though I need to push the battery in (used a rubberband) - any idea of a fix?

Auch ein bekanntes Problem, die Haltefeder läßt mit der Zeit nach und der Akkukasten hält nicht mehr. Eine Zahnstocherspitze oder einen Streichholzspreißel neben den Kasten mit einzuschieben, hilft in der Regel.

Another well known bug. Squeeze the tip of a toothpick or a splintered match next to the power box into the slot. That should do.

jj:
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Junker Jörg on September 10, 2018, 15:46:38
Und zu guter Letzt: Diese Loks ziehen auch Strom, wenn sie nicht fahren. Dann sind die Batterien/Akkus schnell leer. Wenn die Lok also länger stehen soll, dann solltest Du den Akkukasten aus der Halterung ziehen.

Last but not least: Those engines tend to consume energy even while standing emptying batteries quite quickly that way even when not in use. So remove power packs whenever an engine's standing still for more than a few minutes.

jj:
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: playmofire on September 10, 2018, 16:24:24
Wie genau meinst Du das? Von Playmobil gab's diese Batteriekästen in schwarz (erste Serie, wiederaufladbar) und grau (zweite Serie für vier AA-Zellen oder Akkus). Innerhalb eines grauen Kastens sollte man keine Akkus und Batterien mischen. Eigentlich sollte man immer nur gleiche Zellen in Serie hängen, da sonst schwächste Zelle die Leistung vorgibt und die anderen Zellen ausbremst.

I'm not entirely sure what your're talking about here. Playobil issued two kinds of "power boxes". The first, black ones to be recharged as one and the second, grey ones to be fit with four AA-cells or rechargable batteries. You shouldn't combine recharchable and non-recharchable batteries - and strictly spoken only batteries of one and the same kind and state of power should be used together as otherwise the weakes batterie sets the maximum power limiting down all the other, stronger ones.

jj:

P.S. If you don't understand what I'm talking about - sorry, but electrics are far from my usual English vocabulary so I'm far from sure if what I wrote represents what I intended to say...  :-[

It does.  :wave:
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 10, 2018, 16:28:05
Thank you :)

Ok, let me see if I can answer everything...


There're different reasons causing an rc engine to fail. Check as listed:
(a) Power supply for remote control - insert a new battery to be sure and check for red light (< no red light = no power)
(b) Matching quartzes => take a pair of quartzes you know to be working.
(c) Power supply for engine: make sure batteries are full and put in box in correct order. Clean metal contact strips inside power slot (they're likely to be soiled) and press power pack properly into its slot.
(d) Radio contact => system works within a few meters range even without aerial.[/color]

The remotes all  work (brand new batteries, and I tested all three of them)

All the quartz pairs also work (tested on the ICE)

I charged both "loco" batteries and tried both in the ICE - both work.

I didn't know there was no antenna needed...

But both the other locos (Xmas and Nostalgie) do nothing :(


However, the price later went up to £100+.

:o  Nope, not willing to pay that much :(  It is a shame they don't work, but I play with it like once in 15 years?  :(


Playmobil produced two different rc engine types. All engines you listed are "the old ones" (so are the orange diesel and red double bogie engine). The yellow shunting engine (the latest and last one issued) operates on a totally different basis. Neither electronics nor shape of motor and control match the others.

Ah, thanks - that leaves that option out (though it would probably be far too expensive anyways)


I'm not entirely sure what your're talking about here. Playobil issued two kinds of "power boxes". The first, black ones to be recharged as one and the second, grey ones to be fit with four AA-cells or rechargable batteries.

The loco batteries are indeed all of the "old" kind - this sort (playmodb link) (http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4392)..  I assume it is possible to replace the "inner battery"? Are there instructions?


If you don't understand what I'm talking about - sorry, but electrics are far from my usual English vocabulary so I'm far from sure if what I wrote represents what I intended to say...

Same here - except I know nothing of the subject, so it's even worse! But I think I understood you, thank you :)


Another well known bug. Squeeze the tip of a toothpick or a splintered match next to the power box into the slot. That should do.

Tried a bit of paper, didn't work - the rubber band did, for a test - but I will try a toothpick when I try something more.. "proper" :)


Last but not least: Those engines tend to consume energy even while standing emptying batteries quite quickly that way even when not in use. So remove power packs whenever an engine's standing still for more than a few minutes.

I knew I should remove them, but MINUTES? THAT I didn't know. Will do..


So, I know the problem is the locos, since all the rest works with the ICE "loco".. any troubleshooting guide?


Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: playmofire on September 10, 2018, 16:35:35
The first RC steam loco I bought appeared to have no aerial, but it was stuck inside the boiler.  It should stick up out of the dome Behind the funnel; there is a hole in the forward part of the top of the dome for this.  Even with the aerial stuck inside, the loco should work if all else is OK.

You know that the batteries in the grey battery case for the 4016 ICE loco work, so put these in the grey case into each of the other locos and see if they work then.  If they do, then the problem is solved. 

If the locos still do not work, with a torch look into the space where the battery holder goes.  At the end of it there should be two bright and shiny copper contacts.  If they are not bright and shiny but green or grey looking, then the problem is dirty contacts and you need to clean them.  A glass fibre pen is ideal, if not a bit of glass paper or sand paper wrapped over the end of a pen or pencil. 

Try these and then report back.
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: playmofire on September 10, 2018, 16:38:08
What you say, tahra, does point to the possibility of dirty contacts - see my post above.
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 10, 2018, 16:41:07
The first RC steam loco I bought appeared to have no aerial, but it was stuck inside the boiler.  It should stick up out of the dome Behind the funnel; there is a hole in the forward part of the top of the dome for this.  Even with the aerial stuck inside, the loco should work if all else is OK.

Right, I thought there was no aerial because I didn't see it peeking, as in the Nostalgie.. Could be inside..


You know that the batteries in the grey battery case for the 4016 ICE loco work, so put these in the grey case into each of the other locos and see if they work then.  If they do, then the problem is solved. 

Both batteries work - I did try both on the ICE loco.

If the locos still do not work, with a torch look into the space where the battery holder goes.  At the end of it there should be two bright and shiny copper contacts.  If they are not bright and shiny but green or grey looking, then the problem is dirty contacts and you need to clean them.  A glass fibre pen is ideal, if not a bit of glass paper or sand paper wrapped over the end of a pen or pencil. 

Try these and then report back.

That I didn't try... I have sandpaper, will do - on the weekend.

Thank you :)


(forgot this one)
As starter sets always provide more curved than straight tracks that's a common problem. Either sell those plastic tracks an purchase LGB or PIKO tracks instead (expensive) or look for straight tracks in the www.

Right - I realized that only later.. So I suppose my hope of finding someone to trade the rails with was stupid  :-[ ... will look for a lot of straight rails on ebay, and then maybe try and sell some of the curved ones..
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 10, 2018, 19:13:33
That I didn't try... I have sandpaper, will do - on the weekend.

Tried (had to go there), didn't work... Amazingly, the one that seemed dirtier was the ICE.. the one that works!  :o

:(

Here's the Xmas, before..

(http://www.playkingdoms.com/temp/playmoproc/trainsmess20180910c.jpg)

And after

(http://www.playkingdoms.com/temp/playmoproc/trainsmess20180910d.jpg)

The Nostalgie seems fine, it's all shiny:

(http://www.playkingdoms.com/temp/playmoproc/trainsmess20180910e.jpg)


And the missing antenna:

(http://www.playkingdoms.com/temp/playmoproc/trainsmess20180910f.jpg)

Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Junker Jörg on September 10, 2018, 20:55:12
Ok, nochmal zum Mitdenken:
Fernbedienung geht, Quarze passen, der Akkublock hat Strom => mit einer anderen Lok geht's, aber mit dieser nicht.
Just to be sure: Control, quartzes and battery case do work with another engine (=> nothing wrong here) but not with that one?

(1) Lassen sich die Räder (a) ganz frei drehen; (b) gegen leichten Widerstand drehen; (c) so gut wie gar nicht drehen?
=> (a) kann heißen, daß gar kein Motor drin ist (wäre sehr seltsam, hatte ich aber schonmal als Fehlerquelle).
=> (b) heißt, daß der Fehler woanders liegt *g*.
=> (c) kann heißen, daß sich der Motor festgefressen hat. Du kannst vorsichtig probieren, die Räder mit den Händen anzudrehen.

(1) Try to make the wheels spin (turn, birl?) by hand. They (a) spin freely; (b) can be moved with slight efford; (c) they can hardly be moved at all...
=> (a) the motor's missing (quite unlikely but I do have an engine here sent to me to find the reason why it's not working - and it simply lacks a motor... someone must have extricated it)
=> (b) that's fine, keep looking for another reason...
=> (c) motor might have seized up. Carefully try to make wheels move/turn/spin/birl... by hand.

jj:
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 10, 2018, 21:01:25
Just to be sure: Control, quartzes and battery case do work with another engine (=> nothing wrong here) but not with that one?

All works with the ICE "loco" - the other two locos don't work.


(1) Try to make the wheels spin (turn, birl?) by hand. They (a) spin freely; (b) can be moved with slight efford; (c) they can hardly be moved at all...
=> (a) the motor's missing (quite unlikely but I do have an engine here sent to me to find the reason why it's not working - and it simply lacks a motor... someone must have extricated it)
=> (b) that's fine, keep looking for another reason...
=> (c) motor might have seized up. Carefully try to make wheels move/turn/spin/birl... by hand.[/color]

Well, I know it is not (a), at least for the Nostalgie - but between the other two, I need to try it... 

Would be odd that it "seized" for both of them, no?

But now probably only on the weekend.. we'll see.  I REALLY didn't expect the nostalgie one to be dead.  :'(

Thank you for the help!



Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Junker Jörg on September 10, 2018, 21:21:28
Would be odd that it "seized" for both of them, no?
Ja und nein. Eigentlich sind diese Motoren sehr robust. Aber es kann schon mal sein, daß das Fett, das den Motor schmieren sollte, verharzt ist, oder daß ein Zahnrad gebrochen ist und klemmt.

Yes and no. In general those motors are quite sturdy. But grease, ment to keept the motor running smothly, might have hardened; or a cog's broken now blocking the cogwheels.

Falls nur (b) zutrifft, käme als nächstes in Frage...
...die Stromleitung ist irgendwo unterbrochen, ein Blech gebrochen, eine Lötstelle kaputt. Dazu müßtest Du den Motor öffnen und einfach mal die Innereien mit denen eines funktionierenden Motors vergleichen.
...ein Kontakt zum Quarz ist defekt.
...die Empfangs-Steuerungs-Elektronik ist kaputt - und ich hab keine Ahnung, was man da macht.

But if only (b) applies...
...power supply might be interrupted elswhere - a broken conductor or loose solder joint maybe. You can try to carefully open the motor and compare it's insides with a working motor's ones.
...an elctric contact between quartz and electronics's broken.
...the rc-module receiving information from cotrol and passing them on to the motor is broken - and I've no idea how to fix that :-/.

jj:
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 10, 2018, 21:29:00
Yes and no. In general those motors are quite sturdy. But grease, ment to keept the motor running smothly, might have hardened; or a cog's broken now blocking the cogwheels.[/color]

Ah, that make sense.. They've been still a good lonnnnnnnnnng time.


But if only (b) applies...
...power supply might be interrupted elswhere - a broken conductor or loose solder joint maybe. You can try to carefully open the motor and compare it's insides with a working motor's ones.
...an elctric contact between quartz and electronics's broken.
...the rc-module receiving information from cotrol and passing them on to the motor is broken - and I've no idea how to fix that :-/.

 :-\  I think all of those are beyond me... I'll try to spin the wheels manually...  I have no idea if my dad can do anything with them (he is handy with this sort of stuff, though he never messed with trains)..  The "motor blocks" are meant to be removed, right?

Are there instructions? I didn't find any on playmobil's site (the replacement apparently has no instructions online) :(
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Junker Jörg on September 10, 2018, 21:36:15
Den kompletten Motorblock bekommst Du leicht raus. Der ist nur eingeklipst. Dann geht's mit dem Schraubenzieher weiter.

You can remove the entire motor block easily. It's just "clipped in". And then a screw driver will help you to get on.

jj:
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 11, 2018, 07:44:32
You can remove the entire motor block easily. It's just "clipped in". And then a screw driver will help you to get on.

Oh, you just pull it out? Will need to look better...  :-[
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Walts-Trains on September 11, 2018, 18:43:12
Be careful the wheels are driven by a worm and if you spin them you may strip the drive wheel in the loco.
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 11, 2018, 20:33:19
Be careful the wheels are driven by a worm and if you spin them you may strip the drive wheel in the loco.

Uhm... .... uhm?  ???

I am sorry, I have no idea what you mean  :-[

Try to move them GENTLY, right?
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Tiermann on September 11, 2018, 22:38:19
If it's too stuck you can break off the teeth on the gears, and then it won't turn the wheels even when the motor is running.
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 12, 2018, 07:31:04
If it's too stuck you can break off the teeth on the gears, and then it won't turn the wheels even when the motor is running.

Ah!  Right - so, just try gently, not really forcing it...

Sorry, I know nothing of trains :-[
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 13, 2018, 20:39:11
(1) Try to make the wheels spin (turn, birl?) by hand. They (a) spin freely; (b) can be moved with slight efford; (c) they can hardly be moved at all...
=> (a) the motor's missing (quite unlikely but I do have an engine here sent to me to find the reason why it's not working - and it simply lacks a motor... someone must have extricated it)
=> (b) that's fine, keep looking for another reason...
=> (c) motor might have seized up. Carefully try to make wheels move/turn/spin/birl... by hand.

As I suspected, it's (b) - they can be moved with some effort (I was being careful)...

:(
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 15, 2018, 15:45:26
And... are there instructions for dummies to remove the motor blocks? I am kinda afraid to break something..  :-[

And.. part 2 - if they can't be made to work, is there a way to "release" the wheels, so that at least I can pus/pull the thing along the tracks?  :'(
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on September 22, 2018, 14:26:19
Well, the Nostalgie just worked, and the Xmas one started to work when I pushed it along some, as per instructions from someone on THAT site...

I will get  those new battery cases, I think maybe the batteries were not strong enough? They are ancient..
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: playmofire on September 22, 2018, 15:13:32
As the locos haven't been used for a long time, the grease in them may have hardened but getting the loco to run will help loosen this. 
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Junker Jörg on December 15, 2018, 21:02:58
Apologies for not having come back here sooner. "New post" mails must have slipped my attention. Hope all trains are running fine now?

jj:
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on December 16, 2018, 19:06:56
As reported, with a suggestion from someone on THAT site, they are all working. The ICE will still have that issue with the battery being lose, but.. will try figure out a more elegant solution when I need it..

My dad replaced the batteries on one of the xmas train AKUs (bought used, it came with two of them, both dead), and case, Justin Case, I got the battery cases from ds. I'm set :)
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: Junker Jörg on December 17, 2018, 10:25:21
The ICE will still have that issue with the battery being lose, but..
Nicht elegant aber effektiv: Einen Streichholzsplitter mit reinklemmen - not really  elegant but quite effecitve: push a wee splinter at one side next to the power box.

jj:
Title: Re: Help with non-working RC Locos
Post by: tahra on December 17, 2018, 10:36:19
not really  elegant but quite effecitve: push a wee splinter at one side next to the power box

Yes, that is what I'm thinking.. I used a (playmobil!) rubber band around it to keep the battery in place, but it looked horrid. I think your way is the way to go :)